Dangerous pro-choice extremists?

Bullshit.Name the people killed or injured by ELF.Name the people put at risk of harm by ELF.

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Of ELF, you said, "[T]hey have been known to commit arson when the owners of the properties are there, often at night."I challenged you to document this claim. Instead, you suggest that my challenge means that I consider "grand arson" (whatever that may be) acceptable.You again imply that ELF strikes against property "happen to kill people." Clearly, you want to continue making that claim without offering any support for it.I gather that means you cannot support your assertion.

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You seem unable to read.You made an assertion about ELF. I demanded that you support it. Neither you nor Silent H have supported that claim. If you see something in Silent H's post that supports your assertion that ELF members deliberately torched property with people in residence, please quote it to me: I saw quoted material about ELF destroying property, and quoted material suggesting other folks deliberately put human lives in danger. But that isn't what you said, is it?You can make all the assumptions you like about my position on ideologically driven property destruction--but I have not stated one. How telling it is that a demand for evidence yields plenty of contumely--but no evidence.Since you cannot support your assertion, you rave on about a position you cannot know that I do or do not hold, all because I demanded that you back up your accusations--that ELF activists torched property knowing that people were in residence.You, obvious Child, are the terrorist in this discussion, accusing and condemning anyone who refuses to accept your assertions without evidence. It is the tactic of the Inquisition and the McCarthyite.Put up or shut up. Show me your evidence.

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This is just to remind you of the statement that requires support.As you can see, you need to supply evidence that ELF has burned properties when the owners are in residence, "often at night."So we are looking for evidence of multiple cases, many of them at night.

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Nator, in her OP, cites the murders of abortion providers, gay bashers, fake conservative victims, etc.She asked for liberal equivalents; she did not limit those equivalents to pro-choice liberals.The true difficulty in this discussion hinges on the labels of "conservative" and "liberal": the OP seems to accept the notion that one must be one or the other, while it seems to me that those who resort to violence are more properly termed "radical" or "extremist." Neither self-described conservative nor self-described liberal camps in the U.S. body politic embrace violence.Apparently, the best obvious Child, for example, can do is to call environmentalist vandals "liberals": I think we can rule-out the terms of conservative and liberal from anyone who embraces violence.But are there as many violent left-wing extremists as violent right-wing extremists in the U.S.? Apparently not, based on the evidence provided in this thread.

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NJ, you claim to have evidence to support obvious Child's specific statement; for some odd reason, you didn't provide it.Quote and source the evidence. It may amaze you to learn that I am not going to read multiple links of unknown length to ferret out evidence for your position.Show me the evidence to support obvious Child's contention that members of ELF have in multiple cases set fire to buildings with people in residence. No, you need to supply the evidence for the assertion. I'd be happy to engage you in a larger discussion of eco-terrorism, but, apparently, my demand for evidence on a single, specific assertion has so outraged you and obvious Child that we cannot get there.Why, in response to my demand for evidence, do you try to tar me with this kind of crap: Anyone who asks for evidence becomes complicit with the accused?If the facts are well-known, the evidence must be prolific: Quote and source your evidence, or retract the charge.

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No, obvious Child, creationists do not demand evidence; they do, however, refuse to provide it.Here is the entirety of your post (Message #4 in this thread):

quote:

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Vandalism? The amount of damage they do is immense per person and they have been known to commit arson when the owners of the properties are there, often at night.

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I did not ignore the majority of your post. You made an assertion. I demanded your evidence. You have responded with smear tactics and overblown rhetoric without supporting or withdrawing your assertion.If you now see that you overstated your case, making an assertion for which you have no evidence, you should simply say so, and the discussion can move on. Your attempt to obfuscate with groundless accusations and have-you-stopped-beating-your-wife-yet questions is to no avail.Post your evidence or retract the assertion.

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I take your point.But I would still say that the common understanding of the liberal and the conservative in the U.S. does not include acts of violence or statements urging others to act violently.Obvious Child's notion of "liberal terrorists" is ridiculous; political liberalism describes a quite specific set of beliefs that include freedom, consensus, inclusion, etc.: terrorist violence ain't in the liberal charter.I agree with you that the American right has a far greater appetite and tolerance for violence. But those who commit it are, by definition, extremists or radicals--the same applies on the left.Obvious Child is obviously trying to tar liberals with radical environmental actions, banking on the fact that liberals tend also to be environmentalists. It is an absurd charge, especially now that increasing numbers of conservatives--and even evangelicals--are joining the environmental movement.But what else has he got? Radical environmental action is the closest he can get to violence on the left in the U.S.And he can't even get that right.

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Good.I, on the other hand, won't bother to ask you to support your assertion with evidence again.You clearly cannot, and you apparently lack the integrity to admit it.

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Ah, yes--post 51.I think you need to wipe the froth off your face, and then present the evidence for your specific assertion that ELF members torched buildings with people in residence, multiple times, often at night.Drop the rants and raves and accusations. You know nothing about my beliefs concerning violence of any kind.But now you do know that I expect evidence for assertions that strike me as questionable, and I am not intimidated or distracted by name-calling and self-righteous posing.So cut the crap. Post the evidence. Don't hide behind Silent H--who, in fact, did not post any evidence to support your assertion.I think you would post that evidence, if you had it. I think your long, strident, accusatory posts are a smokescreen for that lack.Prove me wrong.

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How you do go on.Yes, I saw this from you:

quote:

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Perhaps I was wrong about the ELF deliberately torching houses with people in them.

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You are halfway there. I told you I would not engage you on other points until you came clean about your unsupported claim: the full Monty takes even fewer words:

quote:

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I was wrong.

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See how easy it is?Rather than simply admit that you were wrong, you spent a great deal of time and thread-space dodging responsibility for your error by slandering me.That's maturity?I see why your nick is obvious Child, kid.

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Actually, I'm an insolent old man.You said something that wasn't true. I entered this thread for the express purpose of challenging that falsehood.You could have closed that exchange at any time by merely admitting that you were wrong. Instead, you sought to imply that my challenge to your falsehood suggested that I was a terrorist sympathizer.The truth is important. When someone tries to dodge a challenge to their falsehoods by shouting questions with smearing implications, it is important to recognize that tactic for what it is.My insistence that you admit the truth resulted instead in long rants of baseless accusations and insults. When my insistence that you either support your assertion or withdraw it became too embarrassing to ignore, you suggested that perhaps you might have been in error, but that your error paled in comparison to my insolence and immaturity.And you still don't have the cojones to admit you were wrong. You have no idea, child. I would pith you like a frog.

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An unsupported accusation is not a minor issue. Are all your assertions so loosely grounded?

quote:

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Sen. McChild: You are a Communist!

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Citizen: Senator, you have offered no evidence that the man is a Communist.

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Sen. McChild: You, Citizen, are a Communist sympathizer!

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Citizen: Senator, you have offered no evidence that the man is a Communist.

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Sen. McChild: You, Citizen, are a Communist sympathizer and an insolent child!

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Citizen: Senator, you have offered no evidence that the man is a Communist.

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Sen. McChild: You, Citizen, are a Communist sympathizer and an insolent child! Never mind whether or not the man is a Communist, let's talk about the threats all these Communists present to our Republic!

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Citizen: Senator, you have offered no evidence that the man is a Communist. Your unsupported accusations are a greater threat. By the way, I'm an old man.

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Sen. McChild: Well, perhaps I was mistaken about this man being a Communist, though we don't know he isn't: he could be, we just don't have proof. Everyone is as guilty as I say they are until you can prove otherwise!

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But who CARES about the minor issue of whether I have evidence for my accusations?! You, Citizen, are a Communist sympathizer and an insolent old man!

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Citizen:

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Go tell yourself more stories, obvious Child. Hey, they could be true--who knows?!I am content with my work in this thread. Rave on without me.

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Merely a greater store of senile insolence...

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