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Author Topic:   Global Futurism. A discussion of impending issues
obvious Child
Member (Idle past 4116 days)
Posts: 661
Joined: 08-17-2006


Message 106 of 241 (444361)
12-29-2007 1:52 AM
Reply to: Message 104 by tesla
12-29-2007 12:19 AM


Re: National Day of Prayer
Agreed. The biggest threat, singular threat, is hair trigger nukes. Remove those and nothing, absolutely nothing mankind has no matter what motivations the leader are under, can destroy mankind in a short time frame.
We could have the most insane leaders but without access to easily launched nukes, their potential is relatively low.
Hell, the world almost was destroyed because some idiot US tech didn't take out the simulation program and thus reported that the Soviets were launching a full scale nuclear attack. You'd think that events like that would make people reconsider what they truly believe is the biggest threat to life on the planet. But I no longer believe that people here are reasonable in all aspects.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by tesla, posted 12-29-2007 12:19 AM tesla has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 107 of 241 (444401)
12-29-2007 9:41 AM
Reply to: Message 104 by tesla
12-29-2007 12:19 AM


Re: National Day of Prayer
the sky is going to turn black, the sun will not shed its light, everyone not a christain will go to hell and when its over you can turn to everyone and say : see? i told you it was those damn christians.
Huh?
lol i still dont buy that religeon is the greatest threat faceing the planet. (extremist aside)
Huh?
Please at least try to get things straight when you post regarding my position.
I happen to be a Christian and I never said that religion is the threat. I said those who believe in "End Time Prophecy."
How is anything you posted even slightly related to the message you are replying to?

Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by tesla, posted 12-29-2007 12:19 AM tesla has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by tesla, posted 12-29-2007 10:00 AM jar has replied

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 1593 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 108 of 241 (444405)
12-29-2007 10:00 AM
Reply to: Message 107 by jar
12-29-2007 9:41 AM


Re: National Day of Prayer
end time prophecy is a beleif of all christians. so if you are a christian, you also beleive in the end time prophecy.
this is a discussion of global futurism "impending issues"
as a christian, the fact in the beleif that the return of God and the inevital destruction of the current age does not mean as a christian, you should not attempt to correct behaviors that are imminent world wide destruction by mans actions.
we see the storm with global warming.
we recognize the threat of nuclear war.
we see the potential of a mass hitting the planet from space.
we have no plans to correct the issues.
we need new science for global warming.
we need politics to dismantel the threat of nuclear war.
we need world wide cooperation for recovery plans for natural destructions.
so..what ARE all the issues? end time beleivers is not a threat.
can anyone make a list of issues? because i dont know them all.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by jar, posted 12-29-2007 9:41 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by jar, posted 12-29-2007 10:06 AM tesla has replied
 Message 122 by Hyroglyphx, posted 12-29-2007 9:02 PM tesla has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 109 of 241 (444406)
12-29-2007 10:06 AM
Reply to: Message 108 by tesla
12-29-2007 10:00 AM


Re: National Day of Prayer
end time prophecy is a beleif of all christians. so if you are a christian, you also beleive in the end time prophecy.
As a Christian I understand that what was written in Revelations refers to about 1800 years ago. Please stop trying to tell me what I believe.
As a human I recognize that those of ANY religion that expect to see some end of an age and Armageddon are dangerous folk.
If you read the thread there are also other issues that have been at least, mentioned.

Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by tesla, posted 12-29-2007 10:00 AM tesla has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by tesla, posted 12-29-2007 10:10 AM jar has replied

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 1593 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 110 of 241 (444407)
12-29-2007 10:10 AM
Reply to: Message 109 by jar
12-29-2007 10:06 AM


Re: National Day of Prayer
oh, so your not a very good christian:
re-read mathew 24 4-46

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by jar, posted 12-29-2007 10:06 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by jar, posted 12-29-2007 10:14 AM tesla has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 111 of 241 (444408)
12-29-2007 10:14 AM
Reply to: Message 110 by tesla
12-29-2007 10:10 AM


Re: National Day of Prayer
More off topic stuff and read all of Matthew 24.
If you want to discuss that then start a thread on it.
Edited by jar, : appalin spallin

Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by tesla, posted 12-29-2007 10:10 AM tesla has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by tesla, posted 12-29-2007 10:20 AM jar has replied

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 1593 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 112 of 241 (444409)
12-29-2007 10:20 AM
Reply to: Message 111 by jar
12-29-2007 10:14 AM


Re: National Day of Prayer
you have failed to prove that end time beleivers are a threat.
book of enoch, isaiah, mathew, revelations : end time beleivers.
so for thousands of years we have had end time beleivers. world isnt over.
many times , even recent times, people have walked the streets saying the its the end of the world. it wasnt.
beleif of an end mandated by God does not constitute a threat. this topic cant hope to discuss "impending" issues, as long as you keep trying to reconstitute a thousands year old beleif is an "impending" issue.

keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by jar, posted 12-29-2007 10:14 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by jar, posted 12-29-2007 10:37 AM tesla has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 113 of 241 (444411)
12-29-2007 10:37 AM
Reply to: Message 112 by tesla
12-29-2007 10:20 AM


Topic
Please either start a topic on Bible interpretation or read the posts in this thread where I have already addressed your points. Then also read the other issues I have brought up in this thread.
In particular look at Message 24 and Message 27.
Other major issues are the availability and distribution of water. Georgia, Florida, Alabama and Tennessee have been in a Water War for several decades now.
The area around the Chesapeake Bay is approaching the limits of sustainability and population growth may need to be severely limited there.
While none of those threaten mankind as a whole they do provide test beds to see if we can develop programs to ameliorate the consequences in a non violent way.

Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by tesla, posted 12-29-2007 10:20 AM tesla has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by tesla, posted 12-29-2007 10:46 AM jar has not replied

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 1593 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 114 of 241 (444412)
12-29-2007 10:46 AM
Reply to: Message 113 by jar
12-29-2007 10:37 AM


Re: Topic
i fail to see how that proves end time beleivers a threat.
i see what you mean about preperation and small scale issues, however,
prepping for a play in high school is nothing near makeing a 2 hour movie.
we need concrete evidence of issues, awarness of the issues, and immediate actions to be taken. it takes time to implement fixes for somehting so large scale. if too much debateing and not enough action on concrete evidence, the debate will be "what do we do now." as oppossed to "how can we prevent this?"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by jar, posted 12-29-2007 10:37 AM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by molbiogirl, posted 12-29-2007 6:30 PM tesla has replied

  
molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2642 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 115 of 241 (444510)
12-29-2007 5:44 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by obvious Child
12-29-2007 1:47 AM


Btw, what's your blood pressure?
Oh. Obvious. Thank you for your concern!
I have a very low BP, a very low heart rate and a low body temp. In fact, by the time I reach 98.6, I have a raging fever.
Thank you again for your heartfelt concern!
he PRIMARY public reason for invading was because Iraq was a imminent threat with its WMD it could use on our allies and give to terrorists (never mind the actual reason).
Oh dear. I see. You're on of those.
President George Bush has claimed he was told by God to invade Iraq and attack Osama bin Laden's stronghold of Afghanistan as part of a divine mission to bring peace to the Middle East, security for Israel, and a state for the Palestinians.
The President made the assertion during his first meeting with Palestinian leaders in June 2003, according to a BBC series which will be broadcast this month.
The revelation comes after Mr Bush launched an impassioned attack yesterday in Washington on Islamic militants, likening their ideology to that of Communism, and accusing them of seeking to "enslave whole nations" and set up a radical Islamic empire "that spans from Spain to Indonesia". In the programmeElusive Peace: Israel and the Arabs, which starts on Monday, the former Palestinian foreign minister Nabil Shaath says Mr Bush told him and Mahmoud Abbas, former prime minister and now Palestinian President: "I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, 'George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan.' And I did, and then God would tell me, 'George go and end the tyranny in Iraq,' and I did."
http://news.independent.co.uk/.../americas/article317805.ece

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by obvious Child, posted 12-29-2007 1:47 AM obvious Child has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 147 by obvious Child, posted 12-30-2007 5:23 PM molbiogirl has not replied

  
molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2642 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 116 of 241 (444514)
12-29-2007 6:30 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by tesla
12-29-2007 10:46 AM


End Time Belief and Political Power
i fail to see how that proves end time beleivers (sic) a threat.
Army Lt. General William "Jerry" Boykin made headlines in 2003 when he said he believed America was engaged in a holy war as a "Christian nation" battling Satan. Adversaries can be defeated, he said, "only if we come against them in the name of Jesus." Boykin was Bush's deputy undersecretary of defense for intelligence.
The White House, in May 2007, called a meeting -- the president invited dominionist James Dobson and 12 or 13 other end time ministers for a special meeting. They discussed the "disturbing threats Iraq, Iran and international terrorism posed to US, Israel and other democracies around the world".
Joel Rosenberg is an end-time "prophecy expert" who makes frequent visits to the White House to help them "understand what will happen next in the Middle East." In a radio interview with James Dobson, Rosenberg informed listeners that Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad -- the latest in a long line of end-time anti-Christ candidates that recently included Saddam Hussein -- is "telling people inside Iran that he believes that the end of the world is just two or three years away." Dobson, referring to Ahmadinejad, said: "We didn't take Hitler very seriously either. I just see the parallel. The president, it seems to me, does understand this."
"I trust God speaks through me. Without that, I couldn't do my job," the president said in 2004.
Former House Majority Leader Dick Armey told the BBC World Service in 2002 that he believed the president subscribed to end-time prophecies when "the whole world goes through a difficult time during those days of Tribulation."
Stephen Zunes, Middle East editor of the Foreign Policy in Focus project, observes that "Iraq has become the new Babylon" for Bush. In biblical Revelation, Babylon is the "great whore" representing human sin and corruption that will be destroyed to allow Jerusalem's rise and Jesus's return.
This spring, AIPAC, with the help of its end-time supporters, succeeded in removing language from a military appropriations bill that would have required Bush to get Congressional approval before using military force against Iran.
A number of members of Congress, recent and current, have been explicit about their end-time views. High-profile end-time politicians include: former House Majority Leader Tom Delay; former Republican Majority Leader Dick Armey; former Senate Majority leader Bill Frist; current Republican Senate Minority leader Mitch McConnell; former House Speaker Dennis Hastert; Senator Sam Brownback.
When Tom Delay was asked by an end timer, "How much of an inspiration is the Second Coming in your support for Israel?", he answered, "Obviously, it's what I live for. Really. I hope it comes tomorrow."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjMRgT5o-Ig
Most info in this post from here:
Page not found - Truthout

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by tesla, posted 12-29-2007 10:46 AM tesla has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 117 by tesla, posted 12-29-2007 6:46 PM molbiogirl has replied

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 1593 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 117 of 241 (444516)
12-29-2007 6:46 PM
Reply to: Message 116 by molbiogirl
12-29-2007 6:30 PM


Re: End Time Belief and Political Power
however the presidents power is limited by congress, and the actions taken against Iraq had to be proven to congress to be a threat before action was taken. which was the wmd debate.
even if the president claimed to be God himself, i don't see any real threat to mankind as a whole by the basis of end time belief.
can it cause problems? yes. end the world? no.
the only way this could potentially happen is if all of congress agreed with a president who claimed to be God, and the rest of the political structure necessary for a world annihilation act remain together.
i believe that religion is a major factor in the decisions of politics. religious people are voters.
i don't believe that believing in the end of the world is going to trump current world problems like global warming and the dangerous consequences that the climate change could reveal.
you cant prove it. at best you can assert that the potential of congress and the president to all loose their minds and commit global suicide is a possibility. however, a very remote one.

keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by molbiogirl, posted 12-29-2007 6:30 PM molbiogirl has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 118 by molbiogirl, posted 12-29-2007 8:17 PM tesla has replied

  
molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2642 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 118 of 241 (444542)
12-29-2007 8:17 PM
Reply to: Message 117 by tesla
12-29-2007 6:46 PM


Re: End Time Belief and Political Power
however the presidents power is limited by congress
This president has circumvented Congress on a number of issues, including the invasion of Iraq.
wiki writes:
Article One, Section Eight of the Constitution says "Congress shall have power to ... declare War" (and) ... The War Powers Resolution of 1973 (Pub.L. 93-148) limits the power of the President to wage war without the approval of the Congress.
Congress did not declare war with Iraq.
wiki writes:
The February 6, 2006, testimony of Alberto Gonzales to the U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee Hearing on Wartime Executive Power and the National Security Agency's Surveillance Authority, however indicates otherwise:
GONZALES: There was not a war declaration, either in connection with Al Qaida or in Iraq. It was an authorization to use military force. I only want to clarify that, because there are implications. Obviously, when you talk about a war declaration, you're possibly talking about affecting treaties, diplomatic relations. And so there is a distinction in law and in practice. And we're not talking about a war declaration. This is an authorization only to use military force.
In addition, this president has abused presidential power on a number of occasions.
George W. Bush ordered the National Security Agency to wiretap the foreign calls of American citizens without seeking court permission, as is indisputably required by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA), passed by Congress in 1978...
Page not found | The Nation
Bush has argued that "as Commander in Chief he possesses "inherent" authority to suspend laws in wartime." Any law. With no oversight. Period.
Bush has also expanded the powers of the Executive Branch to an alarming degree, usurping the powers of the Legislative Branch.
Like Nixon said, "When the President does it, that means it's not illegal."
And -- since this President holds End Times beliefs, consults End Times prophets, relies on End Times advisors -- there is ample reason to be concerned.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by tesla, posted 12-29-2007 6:46 PM tesla has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by tesla, posted 12-29-2007 8:29 PM molbiogirl has not replied

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 1593 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 119 of 241 (444548)
12-29-2007 8:29 PM
Reply to: Message 118 by molbiogirl
12-29-2007 8:17 PM


Re: End Time Belief and Political Power
you cannot suggest that congress would allow a president to unload nuclear warfare at his choosing.

keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by molbiogirl, posted 12-29-2007 8:17 PM molbiogirl has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 120 by jar, posted 12-29-2007 8:32 PM tesla has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 120 of 241 (444549)
12-29-2007 8:32 PM
Reply to: Message 119 by tesla
12-29-2007 8:29 PM


Re: End Time Belief and Political Power
you cannot suggest that congress would allow a president to unload nuclear warfare at his choosing.
Depends.
If the Congress is filled with End Time nutjobs or if the President does not tell Congress what he is doing who knows?

Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by tesla, posted 12-29-2007 8:29 PM tesla has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 121 by tesla, posted 12-29-2007 8:44 PM jar has not replied

  
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