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Author Topic:   if scientists accept God in science, is science destroyed?
Organicmachination
Member (Idle past 5710 days)
Posts: 105
From: Pullman, WA, USA
Joined: 12-30-2007


Message 57 of 72 (444797)
12-30-2007 10:27 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by tesla
12-30-2007 10:10 PM


Re: Assuming God: any consequences?
statement: in the begging there was only God
(as an intelligent all powerful force and the beginning of all things)
in the beginning there was only existence (as an intelligent entity from which all things came)
my "theory" of this as law is how God and existence are concluded as one.
First of all, God transcends existence, as existence is a purely physical aspect. If God is truly a supernatural all powerful force, he is not restricted to the physical world. Thusly, God envelopes existence, but they are not one and the same.
f i put rocks and metal and oil in a box, whats the chances of it becoming a computer given time and chance?
if i take all the elements of the universe, and stuck it in a box..
this is my logic. if you disagree, and science refuses to even explore it, then so let it be so.
Rocks and metals do not behave like elements and atoms and free radicals. The latter spontaneously react to form other compounds like lipids, carbohydrates, proteins and nucleic acids. They form our genetic code and are the basis of natural selection. Of course a box of rocks will never become a computer, but chemical reactions between compounds can lead to wondrous things.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by tesla, posted 12-30-2007 10:10 PM tesla has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by tesla, posted 12-30-2007 10:33 PM Organicmachination has replied

Organicmachination
Member (Idle past 5710 days)
Posts: 105
From: Pullman, WA, USA
Joined: 12-30-2007


Message 59 of 72 (444800)
12-30-2007 10:39 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by tesla
12-30-2007 10:33 PM


Re: Assuming God: any consequences?
I'm not saying that God was before existence. I'm merely saying that God encompasses existence. Existence was a concept created by God at the time of God's coming into existence. For this reason, God and existence are like a mobius strip, or the representation of a chicken and the egg problem. However, it is not incorrect to say that God is at a higher level than the concept of existence, just like a chicken is at a higher level than the egg. They are parallel ideas, but one, God, is of a grander and more omnipotent nature than the other, existence, an esoteric and intangible concept.
Atoms and elements and free radicals came into existence from the big bang.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by tesla, posted 12-30-2007 10:33 PM tesla has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by tesla, posted 12-30-2007 10:43 PM Organicmachination has replied

Organicmachination
Member (Idle past 5710 days)
Posts: 105
From: Pullman, WA, USA
Joined: 12-30-2007


Message 61 of 72 (444802)
12-30-2007 10:48 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by tesla
12-30-2007 10:43 PM


Re: Assuming God: any consequences?
It is entirely possible to not exist, just as flying spaghetti monsters most certainly do not exist.
Existence is as intangible as love. Both concepts exist, and we can talk about them, but we can see, touch, taste or smell neither of them. They are concepts, ideas, emotions, and as such, are perfectly intangible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by tesla, posted 12-30-2007 10:43 PM tesla has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by tesla, posted 12-30-2007 11:02 PM Organicmachination has replied

Organicmachination
Member (Idle past 5710 days)
Posts: 105
From: Pullman, WA, USA
Joined: 12-30-2007


Message 63 of 72 (444806)
12-30-2007 11:12 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by tesla
12-30-2007 11:02 PM


Re: Assuming God: any consequences?
God and Existence must then be infinitely old, with no beginning to either of them, because if existence was there before God, then God must not be the omnipotent creator of everything, as something must have had to create him. Either way, my logic about the chicken and the egg still stands.
Tell me, have you been able to wake up in the morning and see existence? You can see that things exist, but you can't see existence itself. I can see that your logic is flawed, but I can't see or touch or feel your logic itself. Your logic, as an object, does not exist. It exists as an intangible idea, just like the concept of existence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by tesla, posted 12-30-2007 11:02 PM tesla has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by tesla, posted 12-30-2007 11:21 PM Organicmachination has replied

Organicmachination
Member (Idle past 5710 days)
Posts: 105
From: Pullman, WA, USA
Joined: 12-30-2007


Message 65 of 72 (444809)
12-30-2007 11:28 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by tesla
12-30-2007 11:21 PM


Re: Assuming God: any consequences?
If God is existence, then am I God, since I exist? Is Satan God, because he exists? No. God and existence are separate but related. God, if he is omnipotent, could not have come into existence after the concept of existence was established. Do you see your problem here? Are you willing to admit that your God is not omnipotent or all powerful?
Your God must have brought the concept into existence with him, and not before, and if God created the Earth and life, then our existence is a product of him, not him himself. If God was existence, then we would have sprung into existence alongside him, and not 6 days afterwards, or however long afterwards.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by tesla, posted 12-30-2007 11:21 PM tesla has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by tesla, posted 12-30-2007 11:39 PM Organicmachination has replied

Organicmachination
Member (Idle past 5710 days)
Posts: 105
From: Pullman, WA, USA
Joined: 12-30-2007


Message 68 of 72 (444814)
12-30-2007 11:43 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by tesla
12-30-2007 11:39 PM


Re: Assuming God: any consequences?
I regret you will never be able to understand what I am saying, even though it is nothing like what you think I'm saying. I'm not saying that existence does not exist, and that you don't either. All I'm saying is that existence is a philosophical idea that represents the fact that we..are. You can't possibly reach out and grasp existence, just like you can't reach out an grab other ideas and emotions. Either way, this argument is going nowhere, and is completely off track with the original intentions of this thread. Let's agree to disagree and somehow get back to the matter at hand.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by tesla, posted 12-30-2007 11:39 PM tesla has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by tesla, posted 12-30-2007 11:51 PM Organicmachination has not replied

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