Pick and Choose Fundamentalism

I just wanted to share with anyone who gives a rip my trademarked term for the above: It's Cafeteria Creationistm! Use with attribution only.

A good example of Cafeteria Creationism*:Invoking Moses law to mandate sexual norms (heterosexuality) but dismissing that same law when it mandates hygienic norms (menstruation).------*Registered trademark, moioci.

The answer to the question you have put forth is in the scripture, if you will read it. It is in the book of Romans (the whole book). That is the thing about the Bible; if you come across something you don't understand keep reading, because it is for the most part explained later, or it refers to something previously written. As for the laws in Lev. and Deut. most of those are there to illustrate what is or is not concidered clean and why. For instance; what is it about bodily fluids that is unclean (especialy from a medical stand point)? Or animals which reingest their bodily fluids (from a medical stand point)? Is there any medical reason why a man should be circumcised? (if you do not know the answer is yes, it is cleaner and helps prevent the transmition of STD's) God established these laws to preserve the people of Israel, His chosen people. The 'big laws' are the ones He Himself wrote down, the ten commandments. As the book of Romans states:

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3:19 And we have known that as many things as the law saith, to those in the law it doth speak, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may come under judgment to God; 20 wherefore by works of law shall no flesh be declared righteous before Him, for through law is a knowledge of sin.

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imaginvisible So what would be the reason God gave us foreskins to begin then?

To give us the option to be circumcised, which if you read the bible denotes one (specifiacaly in OT times) one who has established a covanent with the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob; the "I Am", the first and the las,t the one true God. Circumcision is a sign of the covanant (which God established) between God and Abraham. If you will read the Bible, all your questions concerning the Bible, will be explained. But if you still have questions by all means ask them, purhaps I have the answer, but if not I know the one who has ALL the answers. All I have to do is ask and He will show me.

From the OP:

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Why don't all fundamentalists of the literal and inerrant persuasion look like this guy? Online Bookstore: Books, NOOK ebooks, Music, Movies & Toys | Barnes & Noble®

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So what gives? What is the rationale for worshiping each word in Genesis and ignoring what one does not like in Leviticus or Deuteronomy?

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I have read Romans, along with the rest of the KJV. The question still stands. Can you provide an answer other than insinuating it's my fault for asking questions despite having read the KJV? Most is not all. Do you consider that Romans absolves you of literally following the Bible according to whenever you may not happen to feel like it? Does that mean the Bible is inerrant, except when it isn't?

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Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider - Francis BaconThe more we understand particular things, the more we understand God - Spinoza

If this is your only question; then the answer as to why I don't look like this guy (I am assumeing you mean the way he is dressed) is because walmart doesn't sell these kinds of cloths, and I can't sew.What particular law\s are you refering to? (please remember us 'fundies' reqiure specifics) What did you not understand when you read the book of Romans? The book of Romans clearly states that if you live under the law you will be judged by the law (and that no flesh will be declared rightious before God under the law because by the law comes the knowledge of sin) the law cannot save, it can only condemn, because no man can live by the law. Our only hope and salvation rests in the Son of God, who lived by the law, fulfilled the law, and died as an attonement sacrifice, pure, Holy, and just, once and for all. It is God's providential grace that saves, by faith in Jesus Christ, not by the works of the law, or men would boast that they do not need God; they can earn their way into heaven on their own. This is the grace of God, in Jesus Christ, that He, being the only one capable of living a pure and holy life accourding to God's standards, became flesh, lived the life we ourselves cannot live, and died to make attonement for our souls, (as it is written in the law). The law was established to show man that he cannot live by the law, and therefore cannot earn his way into heaven. Thank God that He provided a way, through His grace and mercy, in the sarcaficing of His own Son, whom He loved, that we, by grace, through faith can be baught into His kingdom. This is the Gospel (good news) of Jesus Christ, which is the whole point of the Bible; God reconciling man to Himself.The Bible also says that man will be judged; by whatever measure he uses to judge others, so shall he be judged. And God will find all men guilty (that are not under the blood sacrifice of His Son) by their own personal standards. How much more guilty would man be if God judged man by His standards of rightiousness; rather than by a mans own personal standards? If you are not under the grace of God provided in Jesus Christ then you are under the law. The law still exists, but to those who have accepted, by faith in Jesus Christ (that He is both the Son of God and the physical manifestation of God; that He died once and for all to pay the price of the sins of ANYONE who would accept Him as LORD; that He rose again on the third day; confesses their sins and repents of [turn away from] their sins, and accepts Jesus Christ as their personal LORD and savior) these are not under the law but are under God's grace, and are saved by their faith in Christ Jesus. And it has been counted to those that are His, by their faith in Him, as rightiousness; they are without any condemnation. But whoever does not know Jesus as their own personal LORD and savior, these are under the law, and are subject to the full wrath of God for all eternity.Does that mean we can live as if we are the children of satan, and not the adopted children of God? Absolutly not! Jesus left His chruch with a few new commandments: 1) to love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your mind, and with all your spirit. 2) To love your neighbor as yourself. 3) to go into all the world and preach the gospel of Christ to all tribes, tongues, and nations. 4) All of the beatitudes, Blessed are meak and poor in spirit, blessed are the peacemakers, and so forth 5) do not worry 6) do not be afraid. Just to name a few. Furhtermore the book of Romans says that we, having been saved by grace, through faith, have become temples of the Holy Spirit of God. God's Spirit dwells in us, sin in our lives grieves the Holy Spirit of God, and ruins our walk with Him. But, living by grace, having died in Christ Jesus, and having been made a new creature in Him (with new desires) we ought to live Godly and Holy lives. It does not mean we will not make mistakes; we are still human. It means that when we do make a mistake (when we sin) we admit to God that it is a sin, confess it, beg His forgivness, repent, and learn from that mistake. Our sins; past, present, and future have been forgiven. We cannot lose our salvation, but sin in the life of a christian becomes a stumbling block, not only for the christian and for their witness, but also for those who are not saved and therefore are eternaly condemned. He who has ears to hear let him hear, amen [so be it]. BTW; this all comes from the book of Romans. It is repeated elsewhere as well but you did not get this when you read the Bible because you cannot or will not even accept the possibility that it is true and therefore the Word of God cannot speak to you.Edited by imageinvisible, : some spelling

imageinvisible That would be the covenant wherein God said that Abraham's descendants
would always be in Genesis 17:8n Funny thing though if you read your bible this covenant had already been given to Abram in Genesis 15:18-21. So the circumcision seems to be an ad hoc addition from Abraham in order to be able to satisfy some strange desire to fondle and then mutilate the male genitalia IMHOORThe Bible itself is in error for unknown reasons. Perhaps {} Moses did not write the first 5 books?Now before you wish to excuse this in the same way as Genesis by stating that it is a revision added to flesh{ de-flesh?} out a previous chapter, please note that one covenant was made to Abram the next to Abraham and that the one made to Abraham was made at the same time as his name change from Abram to Abraham.Thus we have a problem of explaining why both covenants describe the same gift of land.

I'm certain that when you take something out of context you can make it say whatever you want it to say. The circumcision covenant established here in Genesis 17:7 (not 8) has nothing to do with the covenant between God and Abraham in Gen. chapter 15 concerning Abraham's decendants, and their multitudes; except that they are part of the covenant. Nor does it concern the Promised Land. Genesis 15; YLT - After these things hath the word of - Bible Gateway It is a lasting covenant between God and Abraham concerning Abraham and all of his decendants in that they will serve God, and be His people, and He will be their God, as it is written. "to become God to thee, and to thy seed after thee;" 'and I have become their God." Is God limited to being able to make only one covenant with man at a time? Is God limited that He cannot expond on or add to a covenant that He has already made? When you read the Bible, do you read for comprehension or contridiction? You read the Bible with the preconceived notion that it is not true, without ever concidering the posibility that it might be true. What do you base you presumption on? That some guy, who doesn't know you, and couldn't give a flip about you, or wether or not you spend eternity in hell, says? You think, because someone else told you that you should think this way, that the Bible was written by men (that it is a manmade religious writting) and cannot possibly be true. I have read man made religious writtings before, and all of them (save these three mono thiestic texts, Islam, Christianity, and the Jewish faith, all of which BTW are based on (some more than others) the OT manuscripts that where written down by Moses) have one thing in common. They DO NOT write, speak of, or believe in, eternal damnation.Concerning Islam, I need only look at what they describe heaven as being to know that a man came up with it. Anything that has to do with an endless supply of virgins for all eternity HAS GOT TO BE MAN MADE; only a man would consider this paridise. Don't believe me, ask a woman, they would more than likly consider it hell.Concerning the Jewish faith, they are still waiting for the messiah that was promised them in the OT.Concerning Christianity, we say the Messiah came, His name is Jesus Christ, He spoke twice as much on Hell as He did heaven, He will be back, and he will bring His wrath and judgment upon this wicked world. The truth, more often than not, hurts. It's cold, deadly, and sharp, it cuts, and the wound it leaves is a deep one. This is the truth; If you do not accept Jesus as the messiah, as your personal LORD and Savior, you will burn in Hell for all eternity. I didn't say it, Jesus Christ, the Messiah, said it. If there was ever a doctrine that I (being a man) would want to get rid of, it would be this one; it would be eternal damnation. But it is not my message that I can alter it to make it sound good, or nice, or fluffy, or even pleasently carnal 'to some.' Jesus Christ is the LORD God almighty and this is His message, and it is the truth. You cannot say that you where not warned. If the man on the watchtower does not sound the warning when danger aproaches, he is held accountable. But If he gives a warning, wether the warning is heeded by those who hear it or not, he is without condemnation. The condemnation falls on them who heard, but did not heed the warning. God does not take pleasure in the death of the wicked, but He is Holy (a word that has lost it's true meaning in the world today) and just, and a price must be paid for sin; therefore repent and be saved.Holy:
1: exalted or worthy of complete devotion as one perfect in goodness and righteousness
2: divine (for the Lord our God is holy ” Psalms 99:9(Authorized Version))
3: devoted entirely to the deity or the work of the deity (a holy temple) (holy prophets)
4 a: having a divine quality (holy love) b: venerated as or as if sacred (holy scripture) (a holy relic)DOESN'T EVEN BEGIN TO COVER IT.Holy: Drop dead in His presence before a single thought could even cross your mind, Holy. Not because He struck you down but because your own sin, in His very presence, compared to His Holiness, killed you. This is the Holiness of the LORD GOD. You have no idea who you're mocking when you mock Him, or His Word. Edited by imageinvisible, : God, big G.

Just a quick point - it's not mockery to point out where a text is inconsistent. It's not mockery to point out where a belief contradicts reality. It's not mockery to try to replace ignorance with education.

So, if I believe that homosexuality is not wrong and I don't treat homosexuals as if they are doing something wrong, then I could perform homosexual acts and they won't be counted against me on judgment day?Please show me where this statement is in the Bible.Somehow, I don't think you meant that we are judged by our own standards because most everyone would get into heaven, that way. It also makes the road to destruction pretty narrow and the road to eternal life quite wide. I thought Jesus declared those roads as wide and narrow respectively. Maybe He was just meant it was that way for those who follow Him.

imageinvisible,Please try to address the topic directly and refrain from extraneous statements that cloud the discussion and lead it astray.Note to General Audience: Please do not respond to off topic comments.Please direct any comments concerning this Admin msg to the Moderation Thread.

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Any response in this thread will receive a 24 hour timeout.Thank you

You think? You give man far more credit than God does. The whole premise of this thread was to judge fundimental christianity because they do not follow every law that is written in the OT. Do you believe that the one who started this thread judges him/herself by the same standards (OT laws) as they are judging fundimental christians? The heart of man is evil and wicked, and it's desires are for evil and wicked things. The standards a man uses to judge others are not the same that they use to judge themselves. They will lower their standards when they compare themselves to others in order to make themselves look good in their own eyes. Furthermore it only takes one sin (even by our own standards) to seperate us from God for all eternity, just one. That is how Holy and just God is. Does this sound familiar; I hate it when people do that, and then five minutes later you find yourself doing exactly that which you condemned other people for doing? This tendancy becomes blatantly obvious when you put someone behind the wheel of a car or in the presense of in-laws and family members. In the same measure that He (Jesus), who is without sin, is judged by man, so shall man be judged. Because all men judge Him, by their own standards, they measure His life, His teachings, and who He is, and they come to a decision based on their judgements. The standards/measures with which man judges others vary according to who is being judged, but Jesus will judge them by their highest standards, and He will find them lacking and guilty. Do you realy think that they will be safe; that this broadens the narrow road? On the contrary it make the road all the more narrow. And this is but one aspect of Jesus' teachings.Matt. 7:13 "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many are they who go in by it.
14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and few are they who find it." Edited by imageinvisible, : to adminPD your link to the moderation thread is faulty, I cannot get there to make a statement.Edited by imageinvisible, : gramer and added text in qs box

The premise of this thread is to ask why, if the Bible is to be treated as literal and inerrant as Christian Fundamentalists insist, then why is it only treated as literal and inerrant when applied to others and not to oneself. The contrast of Genesis with the 613 laws were the specific example I used as there does not seem to be a rash of stonings for working on the sabbath, child murders for disobedience, and so on.Now you answered by using Romans to mean that Jesus somehow replaced the laws in the OT. OK, a not uncommon answer. However, I hope you are not one of those who believe that since they are 'saved' (as if one knows), that they get to lie, cheat, steal, blasphemy, and even murder because they are no longer subject to any sanction, be it human or divine.Also, if the Bible is literal and inerrant, why did the OT require amending, as you and others claim occurred as a result of your interpretation of Romans?But of course, I'm only the person who wrote the PNT so how could I know what I meant better than someone who doesn't know the slightest thing about me. Well, since I don't exactly believe in Christianity, but rather Spinoza Pantheism, I don't need to defend any OT bloopers as you may feel compelled to do. Also, I only 'judge' others in relation to how I perceive them to be of threat or benefit to the things I believe, such as my religion, science, the Constitution of the United States, free access to knowledge, and the desire to achieve wisdom. Therefore, I only 'judge' Christian Fundamentalists as hypocritical, intolerant, ignorant, unpatriotic, and self-serving in regard to how much they seek to destroy the above. Unless they are like some of those who are 'saved,' then they appear to have no standards at all. Also, as I am not required to hate myself, as it seems to be in your interpretation of Christianity, I am not therefore compelled to hate others. Your god, not mine. Did we even read the same Bible? You could always stop doing it, are you not responsible for your own behavior?I will pass on the rest of your sermon, I've heard it before. Usually, at least from some of these false prophets of Christian Fundamentalism, it can be neatly summarized in one sentence. Bye. Remember, if you return you are guilty of bearing false witness, if that has any meaning.

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Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider - Francis BaconThe more we understand particular things, the more we understand God - Spinoza

That sounds more like Joseph Heller's big novel.....

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"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD