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Author Topic:   The Evolution of God (Before Genesis 1:1)
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 15 of 73 (444999)
12-31-2007 6:43 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by NOT JULIUS
12-28-2007 3:57 PM


1.No Beginning theory. Here is logical statement:
Premise (P1): Energy--e.g electrical, nuclear, etc--has no beginning, these have always existed(according to Science).
Huh?
No, actually the BB predicts that the various forces did not exist initially as I understand it.
P2: Energy is another word for spirit ( or active force) in the Bible ( e.g Is 40:26, Gen 1:2 .) God is spirit as opposed to a physical being.
Ah, no, energy is not another word for spirit.
Other that both points being false, what do you have?

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by NOT JULIUS, posted 12-28-2007 3:57 PM NOT JULIUS has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by NOT JULIUS, posted 12-31-2007 6:53 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 17 of 73 (445003)
12-31-2007 7:11 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by NOT JULIUS
12-31-2007 6:53 PM


BB= Big Bang. A theory put forth by Father Georges Henri Joseph duard Lematre, a priest.
If you accept that "power" and "energy" are same, then it could make sense.
No, of course I don't accept that. And no, "spirit" is not the same as "power"
So other than absolutely none of you assertions being correct, what do you have?

Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!

This message is a reply to:
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 Message 18 by NOT JULIUS, posted 12-31-2007 9:15 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 19 of 73 (445020)
12-31-2007 9:33 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by NOT JULIUS
12-31-2007 9:15 PM


If that is the case, and POWER=Energy, what does that have to do with God?
If you are then saying Power = God then you have reduced god to nothing but another force like electricity for man to use and control.

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 Message 18 by NOT JULIUS, posted 12-31-2007 9:15 PM NOT JULIUS has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by NOT JULIUS, posted 01-01-2008 8:49 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 23 of 73 (445110)
01-01-2008 9:03 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by NOT JULIUS
01-01-2008 8:49 AM


Then God is not the Power and so your assertion is falsified.

Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by NOT JULIUS, posted 01-01-2008 8:49 AM NOT JULIUS has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by NOT JULIUS, posted 01-01-2008 9:12 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 27 of 73 (445119)
01-01-2008 9:16 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by NOT JULIUS
01-01-2008 9:12 AM


If God is using the various forces then God is NOT the various forces.
If we can explain the various forces without resorting to God then there is no need for inserting God.
If we can explain what is seen through natural means then there is no need to insert God.
One last step.
In science, if something cannot be explained, the answer is "That can not be explained yet", not "GodDidIt."

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by NOT JULIUS, posted 01-01-2008 9:12 AM NOT JULIUS has replied

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 Message 29 by NOT JULIUS, posted 01-01-2008 9:38 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 30 of 73 (445132)
01-01-2008 9:47 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by NOT JULIUS
01-01-2008 9:38 AM


Why should that be exclusive and not inclusive?
You made it exclusive when you said God used the forces.
Why should there be "blinders" or "blinkers"? In the 60s to 70s--not sure of the time frame--the atoms were considered as the smallest particle. Then whoaa! Different kinds of sub-atomic particles.
There are no blinders or blinkers. I said:
jar writes:
If we can explain the various forces without resorting to God then there is no need for inserting God.
No blinders there.
Why only "natural means"? I thought "nature" could be improved.
Nature can be improved by natural means. What other means are there? Unnatural?
The key words are "that can not be explained yet". Is it possible then that the nature of God could later on be explained by science--starting from the "theory", "hypothesis", "guess" of this humble post?
Yes, the key words are "that can not be explained yet" and yes it is possible "that the nature of God could later on be explained by science", however, if that is the case then God is not supernatural but instead just another thing like slime and mud.

Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by NOT JULIUS, posted 01-01-2008 9:38 AM NOT JULIUS has replied

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 Message 33 by NOT JULIUS, posted 01-01-2008 10:12 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 34 of 73 (445139)
01-01-2008 10:23 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by NOT JULIUS
01-01-2008 10:12 AM


I believe I said that God is made up of all sorts of energy AND he can use these forces anyway he likes it.
That is saying God uses God. Sorry but that is a contentfree statement. It has no information in it.
It has not come up yet with an explanation of: 'what if these forces were combined together and intead of destroying its other, instead of just holding up these forces ( like the black holes) --it would EVOLVE into something that has intelligence, can act on its own'?
Science has not come up with the answer to why bananas are not asteroids either. What ifs are fun when you are a kid. "What if I had a magic bike?"
I believe that your premise is correct, but your conclusion is degrading both to men and God.
Of course it is degrading to God, but it is YOUR premise. You are the one who suggested "that the nature of God could later on be explained by science." Them's your exact words son. What I posted is the logical conclusion of what you proposed. If "the nature of God could later on be explained by science" then God is nothing but another natural object, like slime or mold.

Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by NOT JULIUS, posted 01-01-2008 10:12 AM NOT JULIUS has replied

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 Message 37 by NOT JULIUS, posted 01-01-2008 1:30 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 38 of 73 (445196)
01-01-2008 1:39 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by NOT JULIUS
01-01-2008 1:30 PM


It appears to me that everytime science discovers something then it "degrades" that discovery to something like mud and slime?
Absolutely Correct.
I did not say that if the nature of God could later on be explained by science, then "it would be degrading to God" .
If "the nature of God could later on be explained by science" then God is no different than slime or puke.
Sorry but that is the only possible conclusion. If you feel it is degrading I would agree. But it is your premise that "the nature of God could later on be explained by science."

Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by NOT JULIUS, posted 01-01-2008 1:30 PM NOT JULIUS has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by NOT JULIUS, posted 01-01-2008 6:45 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 41 of 73 (445303)
01-01-2008 6:58 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by NOT JULIUS
01-01-2008 6:45 PM


the avatar
Do you hate God, or the possibility that he will reveal more of himself to mankind through science ?
Patrick is not too bright but I bet even Patrick would understand my avatar.
ROTFLMAO!

Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by NOT JULIUS, posted 01-01-2008 6:45 PM NOT JULIUS has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by NOT JULIUS, posted 01-02-2008 2:26 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 45 of 73 (445456)
01-02-2008 2:32 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by NOT JULIUS
01-02-2008 2:26 PM


Re: the avatar
And that is related to the topic in what way?
The point is, if you knew what my avatar was you would know I do not hate God.
The issue is that you keep presenting things that would make God no more than slime or snot. Science by definition can only study that which is natural. If science can someday study God then again, by definition, God is not supernatural but rather natural, snot.
That is the only possible conclusion from your assertions.

Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by NOT JULIUS, posted 01-02-2008 2:26 PM NOT JULIUS has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by NOT JULIUS, posted 01-02-2008 3:03 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 48 of 73 (445467)
01-02-2008 3:07 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by NOT JULIUS
01-02-2008 3:03 PM


Re: the avatar
nonsense.

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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 59 of 73 (445713)
01-03-2008 1:59 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by ringo
01-03-2008 1:53 PM


Great winds.
Great winds do small flames blow out, unless it is great winds caused by too many baked beans in which case small flames can create great fire balls when encountering said winds.

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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 70 of 73 (445997)
01-04-2008 4:17 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by NOT JULIUS
01-04-2008 4:08 PM


In my humble opinion, Science should not focus all its resources in PROVING or DISPROVING the existence of God.
Worry not, Science does not try to prove or disprove God.
In my opinion, question like how did life begin, even if answered would be less fruitful than this question: HOW and WHY DID THE CREATOR MAKE THESE THINGS?
Asked and answered. Godfather Raven did explain it.

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