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Author Topic:   the new and improved obama thread
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 1 of 237 (445890)
01-04-2008 10:35 AM


this is design to discuss actual policy plans and candidate viability. for his policy plan, see his website The Office of Barack and Michelle Obama, and not fox news, pls.
here are the caucus results
assumptions for this thread:
obama is a christian and not a muslim
obama is not running a front for bin ladin
obama is not going to purposely weaken america to terrorist attack.
now that we've gotten past all that rubbish, what do you think of him as a candidate? do you think iowa will be a good representation of what might happen in the rest of the preliminary races? i heard some discussion on npr this morning about the percentages of different groups (youth, over 65, black, women, etc) but i can't find those numbers anywhere, can anyone help? do you think now that obama has proven himself a viable candidate, that he will be able to take the black vote back from hillary (who seems, by polling, to currently have it)?
any other topics relating to the democratic primaries which are not personal attacks on various people are on-topic here. i ask for swift moderator action and hiding of comments not relevant to the discussion.

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by nwr, posted 01-04-2008 11:05 AM macaroniandcheese has replied
 Message 48 by riVeRraT, posted 01-07-2008 11:53 AM macaroniandcheese has not replied
 Message 58 by Lithodid-Man, posted 01-08-2008 3:06 AM macaroniandcheese has not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 2 of 237 (445900)
01-04-2008 11:05 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by macaroniandcheese
01-04-2008 10:35 AM


I rather like Obama.
Being in Illinois, I have watched his progress. I first heard of him somewhere around 1986 or 1988, when he was running for the state legislature. When he has debated state policy, I have been impressed with his grasp of the issues. Then he ran a masterful campaign for U.S. senate in 2004.
I have a lot of respect for Hillary, too. But I'm not sure to what extent I can trust her judgment, particularly given her mistaken support of the Iraq war.
I don't like Edwards at all. In 2004, he chided his opponents for not supporting the war. This time he has been chiding his opponents for not being strongly enough against the war. I'm all for him recognizing his earlier mistake and changing his mind, but he should have done so with a little more humility.
In summary, I think Obama will be a good candidate. I think he would do better than Hillary in the general election. There are a lot of Hillary haters out there, but I think not too many Barrack haters. Sure, there is the racism problem. But I'm inclined to think it won't hurt him very much. Many whites will see him as more white than black, at least in terms of his overall perspective. There will be some hardcore racists, but they were going to vote for Huckabee or somebody similar anyway.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by macaroniandcheese, posted 01-04-2008 10:35 AM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by macaroniandcheese, posted 01-04-2008 11:10 AM nwr has replied
 Message 4 by Chiroptera, posted 01-04-2008 11:14 AM nwr has seen this message but not replied
 Message 52 by Peal, posted 01-07-2008 8:45 PM nwr has replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 3 of 237 (445904)
01-04-2008 11:10 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by nwr
01-04-2008 11:05 AM


Many whites will see him as more white than black, at least in terms of his overall perspective.
i wonder if many blacks will, too. i think that was the singular social question on the fresh prince (oh so long ago) was whether will's family was really black or not. it seems to be an issue of great controversy. is he trying to "act white" or is he just being a responsible, professional adult?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by nwr, posted 01-04-2008 11:05 AM nwr has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by nwr, posted 01-04-2008 11:34 AM macaroniandcheese has replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 237 (445907)
01-04-2008 11:14 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by nwr
01-04-2008 11:05 AM


Off-topic, but of related interest.
A recent issue of The Nation had several short articles, each one supporting one of the Democratic contenders.

He fought for the South for no reason that he could now recall, other than the same one all men fought for: because he'd been a damn fool. -- Garth Ennis

This message is a reply to:
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nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 5 of 237 (445915)
01-04-2008 11:34 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by macaroniandcheese
01-04-2008 11:10 AM


i wonder if many blacks will, too.
I don't think Obama will have a problem with the black vote, assuming he gets the nomination. In the state legislature, he was representing a predominantly black district, and received high support.
The primaries may be a different matter. Bill Clinton did a lot for the black community, and many feel an obligation to support Hillary as payback. But if Obama comes out as the nominee, I think he will pick up that vote without difficulty.

This message is a reply to:
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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 6 of 237 (445918)
01-04-2008 11:42 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by nwr
01-04-2008 11:34 AM


i sure hope not. it's not like huckabee has anything to offer them.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by Buzsaw, posted 01-04-2008 5:01 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 237 (446019)
01-04-2008 5:01 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by macaroniandcheese
01-04-2008 11:42 AM


Bashing Huckabee
i sure hope not. it's not like huckabee has anything to offer them.
So is this thread to be an EvC bash Huckabee, and praises only thread for Obama political campaign? That's the way your OP coupled with this statement appears.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by macaroniandcheese, posted 01-04-2008 11:42 AM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by macaroniandcheese, posted 01-04-2008 5:27 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 8 of 237 (446031)
01-04-2008 5:27 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Buzsaw
01-04-2008 5:01 PM


Re: Bashing Huckabee
how did i bash him? what exactly does huckabee have to offer black people? specifically, what solutions does huckabee have for racial equality issues, or urban development problems, or underclass wage issues, or education access? what does huckabee have to help black people?

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Buzsaw, posted 01-04-2008 8:58 PM macaroniandcheese has replied
 Message 30 by Hyroglyphx, posted 01-06-2008 12:35 AM macaroniandcheese has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 237 (446076)
01-04-2008 8:58 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by macaroniandcheese
01-04-2008 5:27 PM


Re: Bashing Huckabee
brena writes:
what does huckabee have to help black people?
If Obama thinks like his mentor pastor who likes The Nation Of Islam which wants a nation of and by black extremist racists, hating whites and Jews, what has Obama got in mind for whites down the line?? That's the question and the risk in electing such a person.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by macaroniandcheese, posted 01-04-2008 5:27 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by macaroniandcheese, posted 01-04-2008 9:01 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 11 by jar, posted 01-04-2008 9:07 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 12 by nwr, posted 01-04-2008 9:16 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 13 by DrJones*, posted 01-04-2008 9:37 PM Buzsaw has replied
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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 10 of 237 (446078)
01-04-2008 9:01 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Buzsaw
01-04-2008 8:58 PM


Re: Bashing Huckabee
that's a big, fat if. which of course depends on this idea that they are as you claim anyways.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Buzsaw, posted 01-04-2008 8:58 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Buzsaw, posted 01-04-2008 10:15 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 11 of 237 (446083)
01-04-2008 9:07 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Buzsaw
01-04-2008 8:58 PM


Buz just flat pushing innuendo again.
If Obama thinks like his mentor pastor who likes The Nation Of Islam which wants a nation of and by black extremist racists, hating whites and Jews, what has Obama got in mind for whites down the line?? That's the question and the risk in electing such a person.
Buz, we have been over this shit before. If you keep repeating stuff that has been refuted and shown to be nothing but innuendo, what does that make you?

Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!

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nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 12 of 237 (446091)
01-04-2008 9:16 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Buzsaw
01-04-2008 8:58 PM


Re: Bashing Huckabee
If Obama thinks like his mentor pastor who likes The Nation Of Islam which wants a nation of and by black extremist racists, hating whites and Jews, what has Obama got in mind for whites down the line?? That's the question and the risk in electing such a person.
I see that the Republican smear campaign is already underway, and that people who claim that they are moral Christians are engaging in this smear.
When did Christianity abolish the golden rule?

This message is a reply to:
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DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2284
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 13 of 237 (446101)
01-04-2008 9:37 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Buzsaw
01-04-2008 8:58 PM


Re: Bashing Huckabee
what has Obama got in mind for whites down the line?? That's the question and the risk in electing such a person.
Yes cause the US congress, senate and Supreme Court are also composed of white and jew hating black Muslims. Lord know how the black man is always keeping whitey down.

Live every week like it's Shark Week!
Just a monkey in a long line of kings.
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist!
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 14 of 237 (446103)
01-04-2008 9:42 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Buzsaw
01-04-2008 8:58 PM


Time for a new subtitle.
If Obama thinks like his mentor pastor who likes The Nation Of Islam which wants a nation of and by black extremist racists, hating whites and Jews, what has Obama got in mind for whites down the line?
Note that I only included one question mark in the copied quote.
Anyway, not only have I never heard any "Nation of Islam" views come from Obama, I don't recall you ever quoted this "mentor pastor" as saying anything I disagree with. What is it again that this pastor is supposed to have said that is so objectionable?

He fought for the South for no reason that he could now recall, other than the same one all men fought for: because he'd been a damn fool. -- Garth Ennis

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Buzsaw, posted 01-04-2008 8:58 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 237 (446113)
01-04-2008 10:01 PM


Jar if what I said has been refuted as you are claiming, you need to documented where it has been refuted. It has not been refuted.
NWR, if what I've posted is nothing but smear, questioning it's credibility, you need to explain why it is nothing but smear.
There's a whole lot more out there which could be cited relative to Obama's connections to black racists and anti Semites with documentation. I've just touched the surface of what's available if you make the effort to do the research.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by nwr, posted 01-04-2008 11:20 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 39 by nator, posted 01-06-2008 2:45 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
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