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Why There Are Two Sexes

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Author Topic:   Why There Are Two Sexes
RAZD
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Message 4 of 63 (446365)
01-05-2008 9:51 PM 		Reply to: Message 1 by miosim
01-03-2008 11:02 PM

and
why aren't there several sexes?
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Enjoy.
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by miosim, posted 01-03-2008 11:02 PM miosim has not replied
Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by molbiogirl, posted 01-05-2008 10:00 PM RAZD has replied
  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1423 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004

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Message 6 of 63 (446369)
01-05-2008 10:10 PM 		Reply to: Message 5 by molbiogirl
01-05-2008 10:00 PM

Re: and
shhh ... (don't spoil the fun)
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Edited by RAZD, : fun
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1423 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004

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Message 15 of 63 (446414)
01-06-2008 9:32 AM 		Reply to: Message 14 by miosim
01-06-2008 8:35 AM

RASD, having fun yet?
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Most definitely, miosim. Figured the name out yet?
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This is outside of my interests, but you may be interested to read about research of Vigen Geodakyan
Vigen Geodakyan
He developed a very elegant theory about distribution of evolutionary roles: for a male to "design and test" of new varieties and for a female, to “save the best”.
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I didn't see anything elegant in that paper, and your description is still just female selection, seeing as males cannot intentionally develop (design) more variation.
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The paper also seems to make several false divisions of things into two camps when there can be a lot of overlap (eg - right-handed vs left-handed ignores all levels of ambidextrous individuals). Sometimes a spectrum is a better concept. Something that can also apply to the development of cell differentiation.
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The main concept is not as sexy, as it appears from the title of this thread. It isn't about sex in humans, it is rather about sex in microbes. Actually the main mechanism I am proposing in my hypothesis is the cell differentiation mechanism, in which sex is just only one specific case of this differentiation.
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Sex in asexual microbes of sex in sexual microbes? Again there are several organisms where there are more than two sexes. Why use sex if you want to talk about differentiation (doesn't that just confuse the issue)?
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http://home.earthlink.net/~miosim/sitebuildercontent/... will be read.
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For reader having background in Biology or who interested in Molecular Biology I would recommend to read the more formal version of this hypothesis.
http://home.earthlink.net/~miosim/sitebuildercontent/...
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Am I missing something? They seem to be the same essay. Same as in the OP too.
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For instance, the genetic factors of sex in plants often depend upon surrounding conditions and in some animals (for example media Crenomytilus grayanus dunker) depends on age.
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And the sex of alligators is determined by heat in the nest.
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Another very important factor for sexual differentiation are hormones. By injecting female hormone into a chicken embryo, it is forced to become a female, ...
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And a human male that does not produce testosterone will grow up looking like a female except the internal sex organs will be male.
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Meanwhile snails are bisexual androgynous hermaphrodites.
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Enjoy.
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Edited by RAZD, : snails tales
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Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Shortened display form of two quoted (same?) URL's, to restore page width to normal.
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by miosim, posted 01-06-2008 8:35 AM miosim has replied
Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by miosim, posted 01-06-2008 1:52 PM RAZD has replied
  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1423 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004

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Message 17 of 63 (446492)
01-06-2008 2:11 PM 		Reply to: Message 16 by miosim
01-06-2008 1:52 PM

format links please
type:
[url=insert your url here]this message is linked to an url[/url]
and it becomes:
this message is linked to an url
Please edit the ones you have in Message 16 so we can read the page.
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Edited by RAZD, : 16
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1423 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004

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Message 23 of 63 (446611)
01-06-2008 6:12 PM 		Reply to: Message 16 by miosim
01-06-2008 1:52 PM

Thanks miosim for the reformatting.
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To view these links you need MS word. I hope, you do not have problem with that.
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I use OpenOffice Suite - it reads MS documents just fine without lining Bill Gate's pockets.
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I am not knowledgeable in the field of population genetics to judge correctness of Vigen Geodakyan’s theories.
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It's not the population genetics that I have a problem with (yet), rather it is the unfounded assertions and blatant falsehoods. One that struck me was this one:
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quote:
Much more important is the qualitative feature: in the asexual method no new quality appears, whereas in each instance of the sexual reproduction new qualities appear which are different from the parental ones.
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This is just plain false. Mutations occur in both asexual and sexual species and copy errors during cell reproduction also occur in both kinds of organisms.
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For example, if males are bigger than the females, then there is an evolutionary tendency for size to increase in the species. In the other case, if males are smaller than females, the species evolves to have smaller specimens.
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Sorry. That's
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See Cope's rule
quote:
In evolutionary biology, Cope's rule states that population lineages tend to increase body size over geological time.
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Also, I notice a dearth of evidence that would validate his points. To prove his point he would need to show actual examples of compliance with Cope's Rule and that all the species involved had larger males than females, AND that counter examples to Cope's Rule all involved species with smaller males than females. The problem is that many species are the same size between males and females yet they will increase or decrease in body size over time in response to ecological constraints.
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We may conjecture that humans are becoming taller at this stage of history, because an average man is taller than an average woman (Fig. 5). ... The anthropologists and entomologists believe this is the case: mankind is growing . “
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Due to better nutrition and health, and they went through a period in the middle of the dark ages when they were smaller than modern humans and smaller than Romans, yet the females are consistently smaller than the males (it's called sexual dimorphism).
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Also I am opposing indiscriminate use of methodology of Supreme Purpose that Vigen Geodakyan’s employed at full extend.
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Yet you use arguments based on it? Arguments that are invalid? You need a better source of information.
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Enjoy.
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Edited by RAZD, : added to quotes
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RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by miosim, posted 01-06-2008 1:52 PM miosim has replied
Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by miosim, posted 01-06-2008 10:25 PM RAZD has replied
  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1423 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004

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Message 53 of 63 (447281)
01-08-2008 6:12 PM 		Reply to: Message 24 by miosim
01-06-2008 10:25 PM

And then you reject this:
Because of quote from Wickipedia:
while the complete quote is:
I am confused,
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Cope's "rule" is at best a general long term trend that averages out greater positive change with negative change in size, and at worst doesn't apply at all (to several species).
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If you found that Geodakyan’s theory is false, it is fine with me.
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I find that his concept is falsified by actual evidence of the change in size in humans from the beginning of agriculture to the middle ages (getting smaller) then with the advent of better nutritiion and medicine to the present day (getting bigger).
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There is a strong correlation with diet, nutrition and health and zero correlation with size of males to females.
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I have no intention to study Geodakyan’s theories in detailes to defend him.
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I thought you found him insightful and brilliant. This suggests that you may need to reconsider a lot of your concepts with a more skeptical point of view.
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Now I’m looking forward to hear your criticism about my hypothesis.
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I don't need to repeat what others have done. You seem to have a basic misunderstanding of how genes function, which would suggest that more information be acquired before making (shaky) conclusions.
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Enjoy.
​
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RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by miosim, posted 01-06-2008 10:25 PM miosim has replied
Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by miosim, posted 01-08-2008 9:56 PM RAZD has replied
  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1423 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004

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Message 55 of 63 (447346)
01-08-2008 10:36 PM 		Reply to: Message 54 by miosim
01-08-2008 9:56 PM

... I have more trust in the beauty of ideas and human talent that in the scattered data. I do not worship data and facts because they often are used for lie.
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Yes, fantasy is so much more fun than reality.
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Unfortunately for you reality is unaffected by your - or anyone's - fantasy.
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Enjoy.
​
Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
we are limited in our ability to understand
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RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.
This message is a reply to:
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