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Junior Member (Idle past 6038 days) Posts: 3 From: Fargo, ND, United States Joined: |
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Author | Topic: scientific theories taught as factual | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.6 |
Hi Ringo,
Where's the barrier between Lucy and you? Are you saying Lucy was human? "John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
ICANT writes: quote: Are you saying Lucy was human? I'm asking you where's the barrier that prevents Lucy (or something like her) from becoming human after many generations. “Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels
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ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.6 |
Hi RAZD,
If you are asking what religious or philosophical concept do I need to have to understand evolution, The question I asked had nothing to do with religion or philosophical concepts. I asked:What is the source for the Universe and the first form of Life that you claim evolved. I know your answer because you have given it to me before on a couple of occasions. The answer being "We don't know" Since I agree with your definition of micro-events and macro-events.
Biological Process #1 is the change in hereditary traits in populations from generation to generation. Biological Process #2 is the division of a 'parent' species into two (or more) 'daughter' species. I don't see any difference in what you are saying or anyone else on this site and what I am saying except the method. You say we got here by evolution. Which you cannot prove as there has never been a proven case of one creature becoming a different creature. You say with enough changes in 550 million years it could have happened. How? When it took 3 billion years to get from single cell to big enough to see without a microscope. I say God created the universe and everything in it. I believe things are evolving. I also believe humans are devolving in many ways and evolving in others. Enjoy "John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.6 |
Hi Ringo,
I'm asking you where's the barrier that prevents Lucy (or something like her) from becoming human after many generations. Are you saying that after many generations Lucy produced humans? We were not talking about something like her. "John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
ICANT writes: Are you saying that after many generations Lucy produced humans? We were not talking about something like her. I don't know what the consensus is on whether or not Lucy is a direct ancestor of humans but it doesn't matter in the least. We are, in fact, talking about "something like her". It doesn't make any difference whether Lucy is your great, great, great... grandmother or your great, great, great, great... aunt whose line became extinct. We're interested in the number of generations (all of which are transitional). And I've asked you repeatedly, where is the barrier that prevents a hominid contemporary to Lucy from micro-evolving into you? “Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1370 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
You say we got here by evolution. Which you cannot prove as there has never been a proven case of one creature becoming a different creature. You say with enough changes in 550 million years it could have happened. you don't believe in speciation, which has been documented in laboratory settings?
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1431 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
you don't believe in speciation, which has been documented in laboratory settings? He's not talking about speciation, but about the creationist myth of a fly becoming an elephant overnight. Enjoy. we are limited in our ability to understand by our ability to understand RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1431 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
The question I asked had nothing to do with religion or philosophical concepts. Then god cannot be your source. If god is your source then you are de facto talking religion and philosophy when you ask about sources. No special pleading.
I know your answer because you have given it to me before on a couple of occasions. The answer being "We don't know" That is not the source but the question on the beginning of life. Source is a religious and philosophical consideration beyond the question of the beginning of life.
You say we got here by evolution. Which you cannot prove as there has never been a proven case of one creature becoming a different creature. You say with enough changes in 550 million years it could have happened. 55 million should enough, based on the evidence, but you do have to look at the question rationally. Try your hand at dogs will be dogs will be .... Notice that in the first part you have to define what constitutes sufficient change to divide taxonometric categories, such as the difference between a common domestic cat and a red fox. The last creationist (Beretta) didn't get very far. Enjoy. we are limited in our ability to understand by our ability to understand RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share.
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jar Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
What mandates that there are enough small changes over millions of years to change a fish into a land animal. Nothing mandates that. Evolution has no direction. However the conclusion based on the evidence is that that is what happened. Note it is a conclusion.
It took about 3 billion years from the first lifeform to get something you could see without a microscope. So how did we get from there to here today? One small step at a time. Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!
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ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.6 |
Hi jar,
One small step at a time. Sorry jar with only 550 million years they had to be giant steps not small ones as there was not enough time for the small ones. Enjoy "John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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jar Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Five hundred and fifty million years is a long time.
Now do you have anything related to the topic? Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.6 |
Hi Ringo,
And I've asked you repeatedly, where is the barrier that prevents a hominid contemporary to Lucy from micro-evolving into you? Since you are the one alluding to my descent from Lucy or a like life form: Why has it become my responsibility to prove that she, or it, is not? Why don't you prove that they are my ancestors? "John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.6 |
Hi arachnophilia,
you don't believe in speciation, which has been documented in laboratory settings? Please read: Message 93 Have fun now "John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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NosyNed Member Posts: 9003 From: Canada Joined: |
Why don't you prove that they are my ancestors? No one is going to "prove" that. It is however the very most reasonable conclusion to draw from the current evidence. The evidence is three million years ago there were none of "us" around. There were however critters like Lucy who had some characteristics in common with us. Since the evidence also show how we fit in very, very well with all modern life the mostest bestest conclusion is that we had someone around then as our great... great grandparents. We can judge from what evidence we do have now that some millions of years before Lucy there was nothing around that was as close to us in form. Lucy is therefore the most reasonable candidate we have right now for a representative of those grandparents. There is absolutely nothing about her that precludes her as one. If you think there is you'll have to produce whatever it is that precludes her. Not only do we have those characteristics that tie her to us but we have subsequent evidence that shows later forms that are closer yet to us. Since they had to have ancestors too Lucy is a good candidate to represent those ancestors. Those later forms, being yet more like us, are even better candidates to be not-quite-so-many-greats grandparents of us. Again there is nothing to preclude them from that role (and in fact less than Lucy). Whatcha got? Anything other than you don't like the idea? You weren't ask to prove that she is or isn't our ancestor. You were asked to show that she could not be. Whatcha got? Edited by NosyNed, : add a bit
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
ICANT writes: Since you are the one alluding to my descent from Lucy or a like life form: Why has it become my responsibility to prove that she, or it, is not? You're the one who compared, in Message 73, evolving from a single-celled life form to walking to the moon. I pointed out that there's an obvious barrier to walking to the moon, two hundred thousand miles or so of empty space. I've just been asking you to back up your comparison by showing us an obvious barrier to evolution. You're the one who brought up Lucy in Message 88. I don't care if you point out a barrier between the single-celled life form and Lucy or between Lucy and you. I'm just asking you to back up your comparison. “If you had half a brain, wouldn't you have realized after the second time, that it was you, not God?” -- riVeRraT
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