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Author Topic:   Why Would God Care?
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 211 of 217 (447094)
01-08-2008 1:47 AM
Reply to: Message 209 by imageinvisible
01-07-2008 11:55 PM


nice guy all around
He does not want to see you choose destruction over a personal relationship with Him.
You know IV, this thing you believe in sounds like such a real sweetheart all round. If I actually believed he existed then I would be afraid indeed. Not because of my behavior necessarily but because he is clearly unknowable, unpredictable and a bit nuts. Thus no matter what I do he might get off on "destructing" me anyway.
The only reason I can think of for you not being utterly terrified is that you don't really grasp the consequences of what you say about this chap.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 209 by imageinvisible, posted 01-07-2008 11:55 PM imageinvisible has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 213 by imageinvisible, posted 01-08-2008 2:08 AM NosyNed has replied

  
imageinvisible
Member (Idle past 5918 days)
Posts: 132
From: Arlington, Texas, US
Joined: 12-03-2007


Message 212 of 217 (447095)
01-08-2008 1:53 AM
Reply to: Message 210 by sidelined
01-08-2008 12:48 AM


Not true
sidlined writes:
You have to wonder how it is that God never seems to be able to do these things for himself eh?
Not true. I mearly speak the words, it is the Spirit of God which convicts the hearts of man. It is the Bible which says that if you hear His voice do not harden your heart. There are only two options when one is presented with the Word of God, either you accept and submit or you reject it and maintain control of the destiny you have chosen. If I had not told you that the ship was sinking then I would be responsible for your death, it is the same as if I had killed you myself. But if I tell you the ship is sinking and you do not heed you are reponsible for your own fate. I cannot choose for you, you live or die acourding to your own choice. You assume that the conciousness of man is flawless and without fault when you yourself are proof that it is not. Man is flawed, he will lie, cheat, and steel just to get a leg up on those around him, to gain power, fame, and fortune. The heart of man is wicked and seeks after wicked things, but man does not want to hear this message. He wants to have his ego stroked, he doesn't want anyone to tell him that he isn't perfect just the way he is. He doesn't want to know that there is a Being far supperior to him that will one day reqiure him to be acountable for his actions. He doesn't want someone to tell him that if he invests in imorality his return will be imorality multiplied. If he invests in hate his return will be hate in great measures. This is the premise behind "You reep what you sow." Man does not want to hear this. He wants to have his ears tickled, so he gathers around him those who will tell him what he wants to hear, and in so doing becomes deaf to the truth. Hearing they do not hear. Hell is real and the world is headed there in a hand basket. The planet earth is sinking into hell. For the love of God get out now while you still can.
The future is that point in time where you wish you had done what you are not doing now.

Disclaimer: Topical discretion is advised.
This post may contain information, logic/reason exercises, and/or questions used to illustate what I base my logical conclusions on and to expond upon a particular idea. That information/etc. should not be debated in this thread, and any questions that do not fit the topic should not be answered in this thread. Many of these questions/etc. are retorical and/or are included to elicit a mental response not necessaraly a verbal (or in this case a literary) one.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 210 by sidelined, posted 01-08-2008 12:48 AM sidelined has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 215 by sidelined, posted 01-08-2008 3:44 AM imageinvisible has not replied

  
imageinvisible
Member (Idle past 5918 days)
Posts: 132
From: Arlington, Texas, US
Joined: 12-03-2007


Message 213 of 217 (447100)
01-08-2008 2:08 AM
Reply to: Message 211 by NosyNed
01-08-2008 1:47 AM


Re: nice guy all around
Who told you that I was not afraid of Him?
nosyned writes:
The only reason I can think of for you not being utterly terrified is that you don't really grasp the consequences of what you say about this chap.
On the contrary, I fear Him because I know Him and grasp the reality of the consequences of what I say concerning Him. For it is written in His holy book that false teachers will undergo greater comdemnation. If what I tell you is not true then I will stand condemned before God, but if what I say concerning Him is true, then it is you who has cause for fear and trembling. I have said this before and will say it again; God loves man, or He would have completely destroyed him long ago. However in as much as He loves man He hates sin. Furthermore it only takes one sin to seperate man from God. He Himself has provided a way by which man can be reconciled to Him, but if man rejects that providential grace, he condemns himself.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 211 by NosyNed, posted 01-08-2008 1:47 AM NosyNed has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 214 by NosyNed, posted 01-08-2008 2:46 AM imageinvisible has replied

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 214 of 217 (447106)
01-08-2008 2:46 AM
Reply to: Message 213 by imageinvisible
01-08-2008 2:08 AM


Re: nice guy all around
I have said this before and will say it again;
You do not know what God loves or doesn't love. He is obviously unknowable and what humans (not god) tell you about him maybe wrong. You tell me what you "think" is true. I could tell you what I think. We could very well both be wrong.
No one who tells you anything is infallible. Your own thoughts and feelings are suspect. You simple don't know and are placing a bet without knowing the odds.
Of course, you should fear Him. If you believe half of what is said about him in the Bible you should be terrified. You are almost certainly getting it wrong and boy, this chappy is the most power mad, unforgiving deity that we seem to have come up with. Not someone that you want to mess with.
Better Zeus or Woden. At least they don't seem to be any worse than an average power hungry despot. And it appears you can do the standard bribing or cajoling kind of thing with them. They are much more human and even humane than the one you seem to be stuck with.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 213 by imageinvisible, posted 01-08-2008 2:08 AM imageinvisible has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 216 by jar, posted 01-08-2008 10:16 AM NosyNed has not replied
 Message 217 by imageinvisible, posted 01-12-2008 8:51 PM NosyNed has not replied

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5907 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 215 of 217 (447113)
01-08-2008 3:44 AM
Reply to: Message 212 by imageinvisible
01-08-2008 1:53 AM


Re: Not true
imageinvisible
Not true. I mearly speak the words, it is the Spirit of God which convicts the hearts of man. It is the Bible which says that if you hear His voice do not harden your heart.
It is still men who do the talking and writing not God. God remains ,as always, silent. It is not possible to harden your heart against that which does not ,nor ever has, spoke to you.
There are only two options when one is presented with the Word of God, either you accept and submit or you reject it and maintain control of the destiny you have chosen.
Or realize that it is a work of men ,faulty and barren of content, except in the context of the times when the supernatural was the explanation from people who knew nothing.
If I had not told you that the ship was sinking then I would be responsible for your death, it is the same as if I had killed you myself. But if I tell you the ship is sinking and you do not heed you are reponsible for your own fate. I cannot choose for you, you live or die acourding to your own choice.
But there is no ship sinking here. It is just the running wild of imagination over the long ago words of tribal people living without understanding of the forces about them.
You assume that the conciousness of man is flawless and without fault when you yourself are proof that it is not.
You assume much about without benefit of any real insight. In what way is consciousness flawed or not flawed? I fail to see how you make this claim with such arrogance.
Man is flawed, he will lie, cheat, and steel just to get a leg up on those around him, to gain power, fame, and fortune.
I will grant you that men do just such acts. They also tell truths , remain faithful, and give from their wealth to others without need of reward or fear of punishment. And they will do so without gain or recognition or financial reward.
The heart of man is wicked and seeks after wicked things, but man does not want to hear this message. He wants to have his ego stroked, he doesn't want anyone to tell him that he isn't perfect just the way he is
No doubt some men are this way. So what? The deeds of the few do not reflect that of all. The message is flawed and of little value.
He doesn't want to know that there is a Being far supperior to him that will one day reqiure him to be acountable for his actions.He doesn't want someone to tell him that if he invests in imorality his return will be imorality multiplied
There is no good reason to accept this is true in the least. In my experience the facts are that there is no accountability brought to actions against a man except by other men. Again God is conspicuously absent.
If he invests in hate his return will be hate in great measures. This is the premise behind "You reep what you sow." Man does not want to hear this. He wants to have his ears tickled, so he gathers around him those who will tell him what he wants to hear, and in so doing becomes deaf to the truth. Hearing they do not hear. Hell is real and the world is headed there in a hand basket. The planet earth is sinking into hell. For the love of God get out now while you still can.
I doubt there is any measure taken against men after they die that matches this scenario you lay out. It is again the prose of ancient long dead people who have come and gone no longer to trouble the world or be troubled by it that bids your own writing to such troubled sentences. It must be difficult to deal with the world from your POV.
We are mortal and we have our moment in the sun and too soon it fades to waste time with such childish concerns over mortality and the fear of living much less dying.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 212 by imageinvisible, posted 01-08-2008 1:53 AM imageinvisible has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 216 of 217 (447157)
01-08-2008 10:16 AM
Reply to: Message 214 by NosyNed
01-08-2008 2:46 AM


I too would be terrified.
The God that imagineinvisible describes is certainly terrifying and anyone with any imagination at all or capable of critical thinking would rightly fear such an Evil being.
This is where I believe "Belief" and "Faith" come in. If we are not to become either psychotic or be totally immobilized screaming in a fetal position we need "Faith" and "Belief" that a GOD who could actually create this universe could not be the Evil little Bling-Bling Pimp Daddy who gets pissed when he is dissed that so many Christians have created.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 214 by NosyNed, posted 01-08-2008 2:46 AM NosyNed has not replied

  
imageinvisible
Member (Idle past 5918 days)
Posts: 132
From: Arlington, Texas, US
Joined: 12-03-2007


Message 217 of 217 (448284)
01-12-2008 8:51 PM
Reply to: Message 214 by NosyNed
01-08-2008 2:46 AM


Re: nice guy all around
nosyned writes:
You simple don't know and are placing a bet without knowing the odds.
Not true again. Of the three monotheistic religions in the world, Christianity, Judeism, and Islam, these are the only ones that mention eternal damnation. Islam I have no doubts is man made, I have said this before; I need only look at how they decribe heaven. Anything that has to deal with an endless supply of vergins has to be man made. Judeism is the base foundation of Christianity, and speaks of a messiah that would come to redeem the world, and eventualy establish His reign on the earth. The Jewish people say that He has not yet come, the Christians say that the messiah is Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ Himself said that no man enters the kingdom of God except through Him. I have wieghed the odds quite well I chose to bet my eternal soul on the only being capable of redeeming it.
nosyned writes:
Of course, you should fear Him. If you believe half of what is said about him in the Bible you should be terrified. You are almost certainly getting it wrong and boy, this chappy is the most power mad, unforgiving deity that we seem to have come up with. Not someone that you want to mess with.
You serve only to prove how little you understand the God of the Bible. Noone who takes it upon themselves to bear the punishment for the sins of another can be called unforgiving. God; the God of the Bible; became flesh to live the life we cannot live, pure, holy, and just in the eyes of God, for the purpose of paying the price for the sins of any and all who would accept Him as their LORD and Savior. There is no greater act of grace, mercy, and forgiveness recorded. "Greater love hath no man, than that He lay down His life for the life of His friends." I do not need a human to tell me the heart and mind of God, I have a personal relationship with Him that allows us to talk to each other directly. He is all powerful and therefore has no need to seek after more power, you cannot achieve a greater quantity of power than infinite power. It is true that He cannot be bribed or bought, which makes Him all the more just and impartial; and all the more worthy of praise and honor. Furthermore there is noone more Humane. He chose to become like a man and to take the punishment for our sins upon Himself, that noone would have to suffer the painful tourment of a hell that was not designed for, nor ment to house, humans but which humans repeatedly choose over Him. He sacrificed One life, the life of His own flesh and blood, that all of humanity might be spared if they would only accept Him. It is you who does not know what God loves or does not love, and it is humans that you listen to and not God, or you too would seek His forgiveness.

Disclaimer: Topical discretion is advised.
This post may contain information, logic/reason exercises, and/or questions used to illustate what I base my logical conclusions on and to expond upon a particular idea. That information/etc. should not be debated in this thread, and any questions that do not fit the topic should not be answered in this thread. Many of these questions/etc. are retorical and/or are included to elicit a mental response not necessaraly a verbal (or in this case a literary) one.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 214 by NosyNed, posted 01-08-2008 2:46 AM NosyNed has not replied

  
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