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Author Topic:   scientific theories taught as factual
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 166 of 295 (447349)
01-08-2008 10:45 PM
Reply to: Message 157 by Percy
01-08-2008 9:45 PM


Re: Sudden Appearances
Hi Percy,
Percy writes:
Two or three million years is not sudden, though it is certainly a much shorter period than the more widely accepted view of around 20 million years.
Percy considering it took 2.5 billion years to get from single cell life form to multi-cell microscopic life forms I would say compared to that almost anybody would think 2 to 3 million years was sudden.
Your Globe article appeared in May of 2000, and it doesn't appear that Chen's ideas have found much acceptance in the time since then.
Why would anyone want to accept his ideas?
If he is right Darwin is wrong.
That would mean that evolution as taught is a lie.
Heaven forbid.
Have fun,
Guys it is your theory I am just along for the ride.

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 157 by Percy, posted 01-08-2008 9:45 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 170 by jar, posted 01-08-2008 11:39 PM ICANT has not replied
 Message 176 by Percy, posted 01-09-2008 9:45 AM ICANT has replied

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 9003
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 167 of 295 (447351)
01-08-2008 10:49 PM
Reply to: Message 162 by ICANT
01-08-2008 10:19 PM


standard operating procedure
S.O.P. -- willful ignorance. Another write off.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by ICANT, posted 01-08-2008 10:19 PM ICANT has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 431 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 168 of 295 (447353)
01-08-2008 11:14 PM
Reply to: Message 158 by ICANT
01-08-2008 10:07 PM


Re: Re-Barrier
ICANT writes:
You could have fooled me spending as much time as you have trying to convince me as you have.
As I said, I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I'm just helping you show the readers how utterly bankrupt your position is.
But upon further review I have come to the conclusion that there is evidence that it is impossible. For some.
Irrelevant. It only has to be possible for one to be possible. Just like evolution only has to happen once.
quote:
I think I've been pretty clear throughout the thread. Big changes are from single-cell to Lucy or from Lucy to you. Specifically, what barrier prevents that?
Would you care to back up the above statement with evidence?
There's no "statement" there. It's a question. You claim there's a barrier. I'm saying, "Show me."
You did not ask for evidence.
Of course I did. I said, "Show me the barrier." The barrier would be evidence. Your lame-assed "reasons" have no value whatsoever.
Since you have taken the affirmitave side that it did happen....
I most certainly have not. All I've done is ask for evidence that it's impossible.
You are the one who keeps demanding that I name a barrier why Lucy can't be my ancestor. Which I have not and will not.
Thank you. You could have admitted that right from the beginning and saved a lot of wear and tear on my keyboard.

“If you had half a brain, wouldn't you have realized after the second time, that it was you, not God?” -- riVeRraT
“The endearing controvertist! One needs to become acute in the ploys of his kind.” -- ThreeDogs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 158 by ICANT, posted 01-08-2008 10:07 PM ICANT has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 169 of 295 (447354)
01-08-2008 11:15 PM
Reply to: Message 164 by RAZD
01-08-2008 10:30 PM


Re: God on the lab table - evolution in the present day.
Hi RAZD,
(is anyone on topic these days?)
I'm not I keep getting bombarded with questions and I don't have any better sense that try to answer them.
BTW you totally missed my message on the beautiful photo. I was trying to point out that the picture is someone's rendition of what he\she thought the animal would look like.
Now let me try to put that on topic.
You flash this picture and expect people to believe that is exactlly what that animal looked like.
That is a lie because no one knows what that animal looked like.
The trail of horses you like to point to and are point to in:
See "something"
Is not now accepted in the same progression as it has been in the past.
Now we have a 3 toed horse after we have a two toed horse not before.
Something got messed up there. But not to worry just keep preaching it as usual nobody will notice.
Have fun,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by RAZD, posted 01-08-2008 10:30 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 172 by RAZD, posted 01-09-2008 12:39 AM ICANT has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 413 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 170 of 295 (447355)
01-08-2008 11:39 PM
Reply to: Message 166 by ICANT
01-08-2008 10:45 PM


Re: Sudden Appearances
Percy considering it took 2.5 billion years to get from single cell life form to multi-cell microscopic life forms I would say compared to that almost anybody would think 2 to 3 million years was sudden.
Regardless, you have been shown that Chen believes it was more like 40-55 Million years, so why do you continue to repeat known falsehoods?
If he is right Darwin is wrong.
No, even if it were just 2-3 million years that would not show Darwin to be wrong. Why do you continue to repeat known falsehoods?
Do you intend to ever present anything on topic or simply continue to post falsehoods and misrepresentations?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by ICANT, posted 01-08-2008 10:45 PM ICANT has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 171 of 295 (447357)
01-09-2008 12:22 AM


Re-anything meaningful
Hi Guys and Gals,
I am so glad to see that you missed me but I had some free time and thought I would give you somebody to beat up of for a little while.
Sorry though I got to go won't be around much for awhile.
Enjoy.

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Replies to this message:
 Message 173 by RAZD, posted 01-09-2008 7:17 AM ICANT has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1424 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 172 of 295 (447358)
01-09-2008 12:39 AM
Reply to: Message 169 by ICANT
01-08-2008 11:15 PM


Re: God on the lab table - evolution in the present day.
I'm not I keep getting bombarded with questions and I don't have any better sense that try to answer them.
Take 5 minutes to breath. Read the thread and try to respond to the issue and not your cognitive dissonance reactions. Take a day to formulate a rational response if you need to, instead of just posting some silly knee-jerk reaction.
BTW you totally missed my message on the beautiful photo. I was trying to point out that the picture is someone's rendition of what he\she thought the animal would look like.
In other words you never got to the issue of dog vs eohippus skeletons.
That is a lie because no one knows what that animal looked like.
We do know what the skeletons look like, and we can compare those skeletons to the skeletons of modern animals and other fossils, we can see the hereditary traits that are common from one to another. This is what the skeleton of phenocodus looks like:
Rather more like a dog than even eohippus eh?
At least go to message 12 on the thread to see the actual skeleton of dog and eohippus rather than the artist rendering of phenacodus, an ancestor of eohippus (ie even older).
Now we have a 3 toed horse after we have a two toed horse not before.
Irrelevant. You still go from A to B, and B to C, and C to D ... and Y to Z by the process of changes in hereditary traits in populations from generation to generation ... and any detours on the way from a direct path from A to Z only demonstrate evolution - and lack of 'design' (couldn't he make up her mind?) - even more.
Trust me, thinking you have found some horrendous error in evolutionary thinking is only because you don't understand the way evolution works - it is not linear.
Enjoy.
Edited by RAZD, : expanded evolutionary path
Edited by RAZD, : added phenocodus skeleton

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 169 by ICANT, posted 01-08-2008 11:15 PM ICANT has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1424 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 173 of 295 (447407)
01-09-2008 7:17 AM
Reply to: Message 171 by ICANT
01-09-2008 12:22 AM


Re: Re-anything meaningful
EVO: gosh, look at the evidence ...
CREO: gosh, look at the time ... gotta go ...
Enjoy.

Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 171 by ICANT, posted 01-09-2008 12:22 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 179 by ICANT, posted 01-09-2008 6:28 PM RAZD has not replied

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 174 of 295 (447424)
01-09-2008 9:14 AM
Reply to: Message 138 by ICANT
01-08-2008 6:55 PM


Re: My Transitional 2 Cents
ICANT writes:
Hardly because there is no way I could be 1% to 99% a Spiritual being I would have to be 100% human all of me, or I would have to be 100% Spiritual being, as I understand it there is no inbetween.
Oh, I see. My apologies, in your post you mentioned your father represented "50% human and 50% spiritual". I took that to mean a person didn't always have to be 100% human or 100% spiritual. So yes, my examples no longer apply. I do feel sort of bad for your father though... being all snubbed out of existance like that on a simple re-definition. Sucks.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by ICANT, posted 01-08-2008 6:55 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 178 by ICANT, posted 01-09-2008 6:24 PM Stile has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22475
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 175 of 295 (447429)
01-09-2008 9:35 AM
Reply to: Message 161 by ICANT
01-08-2008 10:14 PM


ICANT writes:
But one more question if my son had been born with a stub arm just below the elbow that would be a transition?
Let me make it even simpler: If you have a son, he's transitional. More accurately, assuming he eventually has children of his own, he's transitional between you and your grandchildren.
Given perfect reproduction, then your son would only possess exact copies of gene alleles from you and your wife. But reproduction is not perfect, and so some of those gene alleles will contain copying errors and hence no longer exactly match any gene allele that you or your wife possess.
These copying errors, mutations, accumulate over time, and that is why it is impossible for any species to remain static, no matter how stable their environment. This is called genetic drift.
Interestingly, recently discovered genetic evidence indicates that the human race is evolving more rapidly during the past few thousand years than at any time previous. This is an unexpected finding, since there is thought to be an inverse relationship between population size and the rate of evolutionary change. Given the huge size of the world's population, the expectation would be that the recent rate of evolutionary change would be extremely slow.
The speculation is that this is because we originally evolved as hunter/gatherers, and that the more sedentary contemporary lifestyles exert tremendous selection pressures.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 161 by ICANT, posted 01-08-2008 10:14 PM ICANT has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 177 by nator, posted 01-09-2008 4:13 PM Percy has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22475
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 176 of 295 (447431)
01-09-2008 9:45 AM
Reply to: Message 166 by ICANT
01-08-2008 10:45 PM


Re: Sudden Appearances
ICANT writes:
Percy writes:
Two or three million years is not sudden, though it is certainly a much shorter period than the more widely accepted view of around 20 million years.
Percy considering it took 2.5 billion years to get from single cell life form to multi-cell microscopic life forms I would say compared to that almost anybody would think 2 to 3 million years was sudden.
It *was* sudden. The Cambrian Explosion is actually thought to have taken at least 20 million years, and evolutionists consider even that to be sudden. The suddenness is what caused the coining of the term "Cambrian Explosion".
But what you said back in Message 138 was this:
ICANT in Message 138 writes:
Evolutionist here are saying that there is just a progression from the single cell life form that appeared to where we are today and beyond. Doesn't matter whether you call it micro-evolution, macro-evolution, or transitional you are only talking about a progression from the single cell life form until today.
When all scientific facts point to sudden appearances of life forms.
My contention is that everything started suddenly.
It can be seen that you were arguing against the possibility of gradual transition through tiny evolutionary steps, instead asserting that it happened suddenly. We agree about the word "suddenly", but because "suddenly" in this context means at least two to three million years, and more likely at least 20 million years, there was plenty of time for huge, tremendous numbers of tiny transitional steps.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by ICANT, posted 01-08-2008 10:45 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 182 by ICANT, posted 01-09-2008 11:14 PM Percy has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2188 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 177 of 295 (447514)
01-09-2008 4:13 PM
Reply to: Message 175 by Percy
01-09-2008 9:35 AM


quote:
The speculation is that this is because we originally evolved as hunter/gatherers, and that the more sedentary contemporary lifestyles exert tremendous selection pressures.
Cool, I've wondered for years if that wouldn't be a major source of evolutionary change for humans, and now it seems that some people in the know think so.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 175 by Percy, posted 01-09-2008 9:35 AM Percy has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 178 of 295 (447553)
01-09-2008 6:24 PM
Reply to: Message 174 by Stile
01-09-2008 9:14 AM


Re: My Transitional 2 Cents
Hi Stile,
I do feel sort of bad for your father though... being all snubbed out of existance like that on a simple re-definition. Sucks.
You don't have to feel sorry for my father If I am right he is 100% spiritual now and awaiting my arrival.
Enjoy,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 174 by Stile, posted 01-09-2008 9:14 AM Stile has seen this message but not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 179 of 295 (447554)
01-09-2008 6:28 PM
Reply to: Message 173 by RAZD
01-09-2008 7:17 AM


Re: Re-anything meaningful
Hi RAZD,
EVO: gosh, look at the evidence ...
What evidence?
Have fun,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 173 by RAZD, posted 01-09-2008 7:17 AM RAZD has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 180 by jar, posted 01-09-2008 6:32 PM ICANT has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 413 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 180 of 295 (447555)
01-09-2008 6:32 PM
Reply to: Message 179 by ICANT
01-09-2008 6:28 PM


Ah, back for another hit and run.
What evidence?
Have fun,
I see you are pulling the classic Biblical Creationist tactic of pretending the past never happened.
Do you ever plan on posting something related to the topic?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 179 by ICANT, posted 01-09-2008 6:28 PM ICANT has not replied

  
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