Creationist model

Stop posting things that you have been show are false. See Message 104.We are over two thirds of the way through this thread and you still have not presented a model and you are repeating falsehoods.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

a fractal is "made by" ie: directed by man in its creation of the math formula to such a beautiful apparently ordered structure.that's called "direction"

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keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

tesla Where did God come from?

Sorry but that is simply nonsense and yet more falsehoods. Fractals are not directed by man.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

yes jar, without a man a fractal would never be seen.sidelined: i already explained that. so you know what ill say.

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keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

Snowflake?Conch Shell?Waves?Mountains?Clouds?Nautilus?Ferns? Broccoli?

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

existing ordered elements and nature,none chaos, which is lack of order, but a perfect natural order.if any element is disorder, it would not retain any form, but cease to exist. (and take another form which is ordered)energy has many different conditions, all the conditions are ordered, and in disorder it could not exist in any form. unless it is directed. such as, by intelligence, either of man, or of another. because chaos can only be contained within order, but no ordered structure can hold any form on top of a disordered form without direction.ie: you can hold a ball on top of a moving current of water and it will remain where you hold it. but if you remove your hand, the ball will be caught in the current and subject to the condition it is in, to go where the water leads it. to build a house on sand, you first have to make a foundation that will support an ordered structure on top of a loose material.but if you don't understand , or disagree, i don't know any other way to explain it at this time.edit: broccoli: broccoli is directed by its DNA.Edited by tesla, : spelling and broccoli

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keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

You really don't understand. There are fractals in nature. Order can come from chaos. You are simply wrong.There are many other examples as well, crystal growth, Buckie Balls as two examples.You are simply incorrect in much you assert and the rest is trivial.You have no model.Now you can simply continue to ignore all the help that has been offered from many folk here, or you can try to learn.Either way, you still have not presented anything that approaches a Creationist Model.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Tesla, All that this amounts to is the standard creationist argument from incredulity. It is an argument that gets regular airing here, sometimes from people who are able to express it in grammatically correct English. Essentially, it goes;
"WOW! The universe is just so darn AMAZING that I can't understand it, therefore God must have made it."
Alternatively, perhaps you just don't understand because you haven't done enough learning. My advice is learn more, rant less.

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Mutate and Survive

With Tesla here, the true challenge is helping lucidity emerge from incoherence, as well as staying on topic. I suggest either keeping these or similar goals firmly in mind or not engaging him.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

not exactly.man: wow! I'm so smart nothing in the universe is as intelligent as me!me: given the complexity and size of the universe, mankind being the tiniest spec in it, is arrogant and naive', to believe that all that is could exist without direction.

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keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

And yet that is just what we see in the natural world.A computer requires central direction.
An automobile requires central direction.Yet your immune system works well without central direction.
Your brain works well with no central direction.
A pack of wolves can hunt cooperatively with no central direction.The conclusion ought to be clear: Designed things required central direction; evolved things do not require central direction.All of the evidence from the natural world contradicts the intelligent design hypothesis.

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Let's end the political smears

Tesla,
If you think that order cannot exist without direction, how do you explain the flocking behaviour birds? Or the Giant's Causeway? Or any of the many other examples that have been provided already?
No matter how you choose to phrase it, an argument from incredulity will always remain a fallacy.

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Mutate and Survive

You win, tesla.I'm going to go and cut my head off.

the human body is directed by mitochondria, as well as other parts of the body that work in unison to protect itself. such as your immune system, which can be trained over time through dna changes to become resistant to otherwise deadly things introduced into it.crystals and such behave the way it should for the ordered form it exists in.these things your showing me are not chaotic forms. there ordered and structured things.a snowflake is water, a very ordered element, so when it becomes snow, its order is evident in its beauty , and is shaped by many different forces in its creation, like wind, temperature, and amount of water.all you are doing is showing me the beauty of ordered forms.if they were chaos, disorder, there would be no form.i don't expect most of you to understand that. but there's scientists out there that understand in there research of elements, that the created elements on the table of elements mostly only hold there form for a short time before dissipating into another form. because its "unstable" that is: disordered.if it holds an ordered form it is order.chaos only holds disorder, and order cannot exist on top of disorder.its simple: order cannot exist on top of chaos (disorder) without direction.and its a true law. you have failed so far to show many anything that is chaotic that order is existing on top of without direction. unless you call the "apparent" chaos of subatomic particles such, in which case, if it was disorder, it would not exist inside of an ordered form.that's the point of this observation, is to admit the truth of disorder. its disorder. it has no form unless directed.but I'm sure you'll disagree, but you have failed to show me where this law is false.

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keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides