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Author
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Topic: Honour Amongst Christians
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jar
Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 9 of 308 (449549)
01-18-2008 10:39 AM
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Reply to: Message 8 by Stile
01-18-2008 10:20 AM
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Re: Forgiveness
The confession process. In the Christianity I am familiar with we have a process of confession. The goal is to help a person honestly evaluate their own behavior and to see how things could be done better. It is not a formal process as in the Roman Catholic Church, although if such a procedure might help someone, that too is available. One key component is to try to get us to realize that it is not just things we have done, but also those things left undone. The idea is to look at your own past and to test to see if you truly are sorry that you did not handle things differently. The connect, if there is one, with salvation is on how you personally address your own behavior. I would rephrase your list of threes slightly.
- Trying to do what is right. Not just for others but for yourself and the world we live in.
- Forgiving others and seeking forgiveness for oneself by changing your behavior.
- Salvation is something that was already given. It is a done deal and not something to be earned or purchased.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 8 by Stile, posted 01-18-2008 10:20 AM | | Stile has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 11 by Stile, posted 01-18-2008 10:52 AM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 12 of 308 (449560)
01-18-2008 11:06 AM
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Reply to: Message 11 by Stile
01-18-2008 10:52 AM
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Re: No conflict here
From here I'd go on to discuss the liklyhood of salvation's existance and how such a liklyhood (whatever it is) doesn't have any effect on the first two points. But to keep this thread focused on topic, I'll stay away from that and keep with the assumption that salvation is a part of reality. But I would agree with even that. The likelihood of salvation should never be the motivation for behavior. And honestly, none of us has a clue whether or not there is life after death. Some of us believe that part of the reason Jesus lived among us and died among us and returned from the dead to be among us before He ascended though was to demonstrate that there is really life after death. For that to be true, Jesus must have been fully human and NOT god while living among us. BUT, look at the Great Commandments. Love God and Love others as you love yourself. There is no mention in there of reward, no mention of salvation, just an outline of how to live THIS life.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 11 by Stile, posted 01-18-2008 10:52 AM | | Stile has seen this message but not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 16 of 308 (449568)
01-18-2008 11:36 AM
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Reply to: Message 14 by Stile
01-18-2008 11:33 AM
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Re: Understood
The next thing to discuss is whether or not these assumptions hold any weight. And about how these things being true or not should have no effect on how we forgive or live, but that's more for another thread. Why? We are at about 15 posts. Could we not simply move on?
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 14 by Stile, posted 01-18-2008 11:33 AM | | Stile has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 18 by Stile, posted 01-18-2008 11:41 AM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 20 of 308 (449574)
01-18-2008 11:51 AM
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Reply to: Message 18 by Stile
01-18-2008 11:41 AM
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Re: Understood
Since we are only at the early post count of this thread, could we go on to address the next topic you mentioned in this thread?
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 18 by Stile, posted 01-18-2008 11:41 AM | | Stile has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 23 by Stile, posted 01-18-2008 1:28 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 25 of 308 (449657)
01-18-2008 4:14 PM
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Reply to: Message 23 by Stile
01-18-2008 1:28 PM
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Next up.
The next thing to discuss is whether or not these assumptions hold any weight. And about how these things being true or not should have no effect on how we forgive or live, but that's more for another thread. If you mean salvation by "these things" then I don't see how it could have any effect on how we live or behave except as outlined below. The idea of the membership salvation as taught by many Christian Churches, join OUR club or go to Hell, is pretty silly. The idea of being Born Again as a onetime event, of "being saved" is pretty silly. In all honesty, no one has a clue whether they are saved or not even if something like an afterlife does happen to exist. We might hope for such a thing, perhaps even hope fervently, but if we are honest we gotta admit we ain't got a clue. That leaves everyone trying to live as best they can. And there is nothing wrong with that. It may make some folk uncomfortable to admit they really don't know about life after death, and perhaps some folk can delude themselves into thinking they really do know such stuff. But they don't. From posts here at EvC it seems that many Christians, particularly the Biblical Christians, seem to lack internal self control. In those cases it is probably wise to have something they fear as a threat to keep them from running amok and flooding the streets with blood as they imply would happen if that restraining influence was removed. For such folk an imaginary sky daddy with a big whip and harsh punishments may well serve a purpose. Edited by jar, : appalin spallin and lost words
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 23 by Stile, posted 01-18-2008 1:28 PM | | Stile has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 28 by Stile, posted 01-18-2008 4:28 PM | | jar has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 30 of 308 (449664)
01-18-2008 4:46 PM
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Reply to: Message 29 by Phat
01-18-2008 4:39 PM
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Re: Understanding the basics
Phat writes: In other words, would you climb a tree to avoid having to deal with Him face to face, should the opportunity ever realistically or even symbolically present itself? Phat, do you ever read the Bible in context?
Luke 19 in Context writes: 1Jesus entered Jericho and was passing through. 2A man was there by the name of Zacchaeus; he was a chief tax collector and was wealthy. 3He wanted to see who Jesus was, but being a short man he could not, because of the crowd. 4So he ran ahead and climbed a sycamore-fig tree to see him, since Jesus was coming that way. 5When Jesus reached the spot, he looked up and said to him, "Zacchaeus, come down immediately. I must stay at your house today." 6So he came down at once and welcomed him gladly. 7All the people saw this and began to mutter, "He has gone to be the guest of a 'sinner.' " 8But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, "Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount." 9Jesus said to him, "Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham. 10For the Son of Man came to seek and to save what was lost." The point of that parable is on behavior.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 29 by Phat, posted 01-18-2008 4:39 PM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 31 by Phat, posted 01-18-2008 4:53 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 32 of 308 (449668)
01-18-2008 5:13 PM
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Reply to: Message 31 by Phat
01-18-2008 4:53 PM
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Re: Understanding the basics
Do you believe that Jesus existed and that He died for everyone? (Not just those who believe in Him) The idea of Jesus death as some payment doesn't make any sense and only makes God look stupid.
And BTW you can only honestly speak for yourself in saying that you don't have a clue. Why?
How would we honestly know if anyone else had a clue or not? We ask them to support their position, just as we do for anything else.
Do you despise exclusivity that much? How can you despise something so silly? You might pity folk that believe such stuff or humor them, but 'despise' should be reserved for things of some importance.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 31 by Phat, posted 01-18-2008 4:53 PM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 35 by Phat, posted 01-19-2008 3:00 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 36 of 308 (449883)
01-19-2008 3:08 PM
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Reply to: Message 35 by Phat
01-19-2008 3:00 PM
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Re: It May Be Honorable To Question
The topic is "Honour Amongst Christians" and it is pretty well laid out in the OP. How are your questions related to the topic?
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 35 by Phat, posted 01-19-2008 3:00 PM | | Phat has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 46 of 308 (450243)
01-21-2008 12:13 PM
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Reply to: Message 45 by ICANT
01-21-2008 10:28 AM
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Re: Good is greater than God
News Flash: once in the lake of fire you don't get out to spend time with God. Sorry. Why would anyone want to spend time with your God?
Who decides what righteousness is?
Who decides what is honorable? Each of us, every day and with every decision. We are charged to try to do our best and we will be judged based on whether or not we actually tried. We are charged with trying to make the best decisions within the limited and incomplete knowledge we have.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 45 by ICANT, posted 01-21-2008 10:28 AM | | ICANT has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 48 by iano, posted 01-21-2008 12:18 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 50 of 308 (450250)
01-21-2008 12:21 PM
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Reply to: Message 48 by iano
01-21-2008 12:18 PM
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Re: Good is greater than God
GOD.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 48 by iano, posted 01-21-2008 12:18 PM | | iano has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 51 by iano, posted 01-21-2008 12:30 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 52 of 308 (450256)
01-21-2008 12:32 PM
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Reply to: Message 51 by iano
01-21-2008 12:30 PM
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Re: Good is greater than God
That is the major point of the Garden of Eden tale. But that is another topic. This thread is on "Honour Amongst Christians" which certainly seems to be sadly lacking in many cases.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 51 by iano, posted 01-21-2008 12:30 PM | | iano has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 81 of 308 (450503)
01-22-2008 10:41 AM
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Reply to: Message 80 by iano
01-22-2008 6:16 AM
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Re: Can't ask for honour
Does the above change your view? Let's say a person wants to give a gift to a child - but the childs hands hang down by their side. The gift cannot be received. The giver takes the childs hands, lifts them up from their side and places the gift in them. Are you saying that this action on the part of the giver destroys the gift giving? Hands lifted by the giver, asking pressed out of you by the giver. It's the same thing. Of course it is not the same thing. Salvation is NOT something the child needs to reach for, it requires nothing on the part of the child, it is totally within the purview of the giver, just as a blessing or curse is in the purview of the giver. All GOD needs to do is NOT damn someone. No actions are required on the part of the person NOT damned.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 80 by iano, posted 01-22-2008 6:16 AM | | iano has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 83 by Phat, posted 01-22-2008 12:04 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 93 of 308 (450541)
01-22-2008 1:43 PM
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Reply to: Message 83 by Phat
01-22-2008 12:04 PM
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Re: All God Needs To Do...
God.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 83 by Phat, posted 01-22-2008 12:04 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 95 of 308 (450544)
01-22-2008 2:03 PM
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Reply to: Message 90 by ICANT
01-22-2008 1:20 PM
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Why do you make god stupid and evil?
nator if you were traveling down a mountain road at a pretty good clip you were late for an appointment so you were hurrying. There is a bridge across the gorge that you must travel over to get to your destination. One problem the bridge is out it is 2000 feet to the bottom of the gorge. I stop you a mile before you get to where the bridge is supposed to be. I say nator the bridge is out you must go another way. You say I don't believe you that is just a myth. You step on the gas pedal and speed away toward the gorge. You are mad because I made you later by delaying you. You go even faster you come around the corner you see the bridge is out you apply the brakes but you can't stop you fly off into eternity. Now I got a question: Whose fault is it that you plunged to your death? Is it God because He built the gorge by putting the mountains there? Your parents because you were born? Or little ole me that warned you not to go that way. Actually, in your scenario it is absolutely YOUR God's fault for destroying the bridge. You keep making the God you created more and more evil.
God did make a way you could escape. You must be born again. That is how you get into God's family. It cost Him a price that you will only know if you reach the lake of fire. As the old saying goes the ball is in your court. Now you make the God you are marketing stupid as well as evil. Looks like you also expect the buyers to be as stupid as your God, trying to sell them the idea that Born Again is some one time thing.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 90 by ICANT, posted 01-22-2008 1:20 PM | | ICANT has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 96 by ICANT, posted 01-22-2008 2:11 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 101 of 308 (450555)
01-22-2008 2:44 PM
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Reply to: Message 96 by ICANT
01-22-2008 2:11 PM
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Re: Why do you make god stupid and evil?
You can be born no more times spiritually than you can physically. jar writes: Bullshit. That is simply the old canard. Being Born Again is something you try to do each moment of the day. There is no Silver Bullet, no Magic Get Outta Hell Free Card.
Maybe you right jar and everything is God's fault. Actually it is your God's fault, but then you created Her.
If you got to have somebody to blame as you are not man enough to be responsible for your own actions. Or am I reading you wrong? You have not been reading at all it seems.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 96 by ICANT, posted 01-22-2008 2:11 PM | | ICANT has not replied |
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