|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total) |
| |
ChatGPT | |
Total: 916,787 Year: 4,044/9,624 Month: 915/974 Week: 242/286 Day: 3/46 Hour: 0/1 |
Thread ▼ Details |
|
|
Author | Topic: Why Would a Loving God Create Hell? | |||||||||||||||||||
purpledawn Member (Idle past 3483 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
I'm a bit confused why people persist in asking why a loving God would create hell and in the next breath essentially say they don't believe hell, as presented by some Christians, exists.
If we want to know why a loving God would create hell, we first have to figure out whether a God even created the Christian Hell. The scriptures don't support eternal torment. We should at least judge the Christian God by what the Bible does say and not the dogma and tradition that varies from sect to sect. IMO, God didn't create Hell as it is presented by some Christians today. Mankind created Hell just like all the other boogey men created to scare people into line. "Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz
|
|||||||||||||||||||
purpledawn Member (Idle past 3483 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
So given what you quoted from Isaiah 45, why does Christianity perpetuate the myth that Hell is eternal punishment for not believing?
The Bible does support that God is considered just, but the idea that people go to Hell for lack of belief doesn't come across as just since God also creates evil and disaster. Tough love is understandable since humans must do the same from time to time, but the idea that one goes to Hell for lack of belief is not just and I don't see it supported in the Bible. Hell is associated with our actual actions and it's not eternal.
|
|||||||||||||||||||
purpledawn Member (Idle past 3483 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
quote:But the Bible doesn't support that contention either. The most the story says is that death is a consequence of A&E's actions. quote:Revelation is a symbolic writing. The lake of fire isn't Hell. Rev 20:14 And death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. Otherwise God would be throwing Hell into Hell. That's why people need to be clear what they call Hell. References in the Bible are not all equal.
quote:If one was to receive eternal torment as taught, then the person would still be "living". IOW being tormented throughout his eternal life, but this verse states that only the righteous receive eternal life. Matt 25:46”"These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." Therefore the punishment is death by destruction in the Lake of Fire (not Hell), which is eternal in the sense that it is a permanent judgment. No resurrection for this person. Again, the lake of fire cannot be Hell if Hades is thrown into it. Eternal life is for the righteous and all others just cease to exist. This idea would be more consistent with a loving and just God judging our actions. I don't see that the Bible supports the idea that everyone gets eternal life. One must have eternal life for eternal torment. "Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz
|
|||||||||||||||||||
purpledawn Member (Idle past 3483 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
quote:So you agree there's a difference. This thread is about Hell and not the lake of fire. quote:The resurrection is for the righteous. The unrighteous will be like the criminals burned up in Gehenna. They have no place in the world to come. No resurrection. That is their punishment after death, no eternal life. They cease to exist anywhere. The body is dead and the soul is dead. This penalty is never reversed. There is a difference between punishing a child and tormenting a child. Where does the Bible support that everyone has eternal life after our physical death, but some won't enjoy it?
quote:No one's debating whether God is everlasting or not. That's not the issue. The issue is Hell and it's purpose. quote: The idea of eternal life is a product of the NT.
10:17 As He was setting out on a journey, a man ran up to Him and knelt before Him, and asked Him, "Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life ?" 10:18And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good ? No one is good except God alone. 10:19"You know the commandments, 'DO NOT MURDER, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, DO NOT STEAL, DO NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, Do not defraud, HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER.' " 10:20And he said to Him, "Teacher, I have kept all these things from my youth up." 10:21Looking at him, Jesus felt a love for him and said to him, "One thing you lack: go and sell all you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me." Notice that the come follow me, was not part of the requirements for eternal life. The actions were. The way Christianity presents it, it is a reward. Behave and we are rewarded, believe and we are rewarded. Belief with wrong behavior is not actually rewarded.
John 15:10 "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love. James 2:17 Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself. Right behavior has to be there. You haven't shown me that the bible writers support the idea that all people are to have eternal life and only the quality of it changes according to our actions or beliefs. "Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz
|
|||||||||||||||||||
purpledawn Member (Idle past 3483 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
quote:As I said before, Revelation is a vision and symbolic. So one would have to look at what the vision was representing. Death is not a thing and the lake of fire is not Hell since Hell is being thrown into it. So it really isn't part of this debate, which is about Hell. quote:No, I've said that the Bible does not support that the unrighteous will have eternal life. I didn't say anyone would disappear, just die; cease to exist. Once we die we no longer exist. quote:I stand corrected. quote:You know as well as I do what that section said. The individual asked what shall I do to inherit eternal life? and Jesus said follow the commandments. The treasure in heaven was added after he was told to also give to the poor. So following the commandments are essential to obtaining eternal life. quote:No. According to the tale, without the Tree of Life, man will not live forever. Ge 3:22 And the Lord God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever." quote:I agree, but we are talking about Hell, not the offer. Yes, once one believes in God the right behavior should follow, but that isn't always the case. The point is at judgment day the right behavior has to be there. quote:If you notice the latter part of the section again speaks of behavior. The Book of John is a later writing and I agree it was probably written to make Jesus more Gentile. That book isn't always in line with the first three Gospels. As far as the topic goes, I still don't see that those condemned are eternally tormented. The dead just stay dead. No afterlife. Like I said, that fits with the idea of a just and loving God more so than eternal torment. Why do you have a problem with the dead staying dead?Why the need for torment? "Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024