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Author Topic:   Why Would a Loving God Create Hell?
Phat
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Posts: 18335
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 69 of 196 (80589)
01-25-2004 1:10 AM
Reply to: Message 68 by Angeldust
01-24-2004 11:37 PM


Hell No! We won't go!
As a Christian, even I do not understand the concept of Hell. I know that according to my belief, Hell was not created for people. It was to be the destination freely chosen by the rebellious spirits that did not want to be under Gods authority. A human only ends up there by following one of the wannabe gods instead of the True God.
Personally, why won;t God just allow those who do not want to serve Him to cease to exist instead of burning for eternity? Kinda like the Death penalty for Demons. Anyway, I hope that if Hell is real none of us in this forum ever go there. If I ever get a "get out of Hell free" card, I will save it for you!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by Angeldust, posted 01-24-2004 11:37 PM Angeldust has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by Angeldust, posted 01-25-2004 1:53 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18335
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 72 of 196 (80670)
01-25-2004 2:32 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by Angeldust
01-25-2004 1:53 PM


Bzzzz! And now some lovely parting gifts!
Yeah and to clarify myself, I was not meaning to imply that anyone would need my "Get out of Hell Free" card anyway. Based on my own Belief, I better keep it, eh?
In many stories of human struggle and cosmic galactic battles such as star wars, there are often some pretty impressive plot twists.
The characters who should receive the answers sometimes do not, whereas the characters whom no one thinks will survive do occasionally survive. C.S.Lewis says that the Bible has just enough of a plot twist to make it a plausible truth as opposed to a work of fiction. Lewis also says this about the question of whether he believed in the Devil:
The commonest question is whether I really "believe in the Devil." Now, if by "the Devil" you mean a power opposite to God and, like God, self-existent from all eternity, the answer is certainly No. There is no uncreated being except God. God has no opposite. No being could attain a "perfect badness" opposite to the perfect goodness of God; for when you have taken away every kind of good thing (intelligence, will, memory, energy, and existence itself) there would be none of him left.
The proper question is whether I believe in devils. I do. That is to say, I believe in angels, and I believe that some of these, by the abuse of their free will, have become enemies to God and, as a corollary, to us. These we may call devils. They do not differ in nature from good angels, but their nature is depraved. Devil is the opposite of angel only as Bad Man is the opposite of Good Man. Satan, is the leader or dictator of devils, is the opposite, not of God, but of Michael.
C.S. Lewis was a great intellect, and yet he was a believer in the reality of Jesus. He defends this in many ways, most notable:
However, if you ask yourself why would a group of first century men and women conspire to propagate a lie about a little known preacher being God, then the above argument becomes stronger. What would it gain the disciples? It went against Jewish belief that a man could be God. They were persecuted, tortured and killed for their beliefs. What caused and empowered a bunch of uneducated, blue-collar workers (i.e. fishermen, tax men and carpenters) to turn the world upside down in the space of a couple of generations?

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18335
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 93 of 196 (445499)
01-02-2008 4:49 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Rand Al'Thor
11-10-2003 2:17 AM


Rand? Are you still here?
Im bringing back this older topic because it has some good points.
RandAlThor writes:
Yet if we don't follow the exact path god set for us we go to hell. How is this freewill? If anything it is the opposite of freewill.
Personally, I dont believe that IF Hell exists it was created for bad people. Hell was, IMHO created for the freewill of the rebellious spirits.
People obviously have freewill to some extent, yet only a moron would actually choose to avoid God.

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 Message 1 by Rand Al'Thor, posted 11-10-2003 2:17 AM Rand Al'Thor has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by pelican, posted 01-08-2008 2:39 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 95 by PurpleYouko, posted 01-09-2008 9:19 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 102 by ICANT, posted 01-15-2008 12:20 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18335
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 105 of 196 (448790)
01-15-2008 9:13 AM
Reply to: Message 104 by Granny Magda
01-15-2008 7:19 AM


A Pillar Of Salt
Granny Magda writes:
Unfortunately, most people are all too familiar with evil, and even if most of us never see it at quite that level, we all know how nasty people can get. There's no need to resort to shock tactics.
And yet Hollywood keeps making films which are more and more graphic and explicit.
Video Game manufacturers do likewise.
There is something oddly attractive about such graphic stories.
Its as if we want to look away yet keep glancing back and absorbing the possibility that deep within our souls, we are as twisted as the monsters we see.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by Granny Magda, posted 01-15-2008 7:19 AM Granny Magda has replied

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18335
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 162 of 196 (449824)
01-19-2008 9:45 AM
Reply to: Message 159 by Tal
01-19-2008 5:08 AM


Why Is Hell The Only Other Option?
We were talking in chat, the other day...and the issue came up:
If a human, (who is not as loving and just as God) sees that a horse has become crippled and is in pain, we will "put the animal down" or shoot them dead as an act of mercy. Why, then, would not God (who is infinitely more merciful than a human) allow an unbeliever the option of ceasing to exist rather than eternal Hell and Torment? It certainly makes no sense to me why eternal torment is the only other option besides surrender and trust in Christ.

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 Message 159 by Tal, posted 01-19-2008 5:08 AM Tal has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 164 by ICANT, posted 01-19-2008 10:16 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18335
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 171 of 196 (449874)
01-19-2008 2:45 PM
Reply to: Message 164 by ICANT
01-19-2008 10:16 AM


Re: Why Is Hell The Only Other Option?
ICAN'T writes:
Phat can God cease to exist?
IMB, No. It is one of a couple of things He cannot do. He cannot cease being GOD (nor cease being at all) and He cannot lie (or deceive.) Some would argue the latter of the two points, but not I.
Why is it written or declared that the only conceptualization I can have of GOD must come from the Bible? Did He not give me a mind for a reason?
I do believe that GOD never purposefully created a fallen Satan and an actualized evil, however. I believe that He created a freewill Lucifer who He may well have foreknown would become Satan (or actualized evil) and that when Isaiah speaks of the Lord creating both good and evil, it meant that He created the potential for evil (or rebellion, or self exultation) only to show the antithesis of what He was.
I also will admit that IMB Jesus Christ is Gods character and is necessary to show humanity a reflection of the image that God had for us before we chose instead to freely expand our awareness without obedience. I won't limit my questioning to Scriptural explanations, however. To say that the Bible is the perfect source can only be corroborated in The Bible so that holds no water.

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 Message 164 by ICANT, posted 01-19-2008 10:16 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18335
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 172 of 196 (449875)
01-19-2008 2:49 PM
Reply to: Message 169 by sidelined
01-19-2008 2:07 PM


Re: The Hidden God
So are you suggesting that even God must bow to the Laws of Physics?
Hypothetically, God by definition could rewrite all natural laws as He saw fit to do. But then again, He would be playing tricks on the disciplined rational and logical minds that He gave us, and that would be cruel, no?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 169 by sidelined, posted 01-19-2008 2:07 PM sidelined has replied

Replies to this message:
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