|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total) |
| |
ChatGPT | |
Total: 916,890 Year: 4,147/9,624 Month: 1,018/974 Week: 345/286 Day: 1/65 Hour: 0/1 |
Thread ▼ Details |
|
|
Author | Topic: Anyone else notice this pattern? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2198 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: I have plenty of empathy. What does that have to do with this thread, and the fact that it appears, as it does, on a science-based debate board?
quote: Please read the OP.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
purpledawn Member (Idle past 3485 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
quote:I like that. Continuous do overs. I think it's rare for either side to admit error/mistake to the opposition. Never give up, never surrender!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
pelican Member (Idle past 5014 days) Posts: 781 From: australia Joined: |
I normally don't correct people on such matters, where it is not important for the discussion. However, if you are going to complain about implied accusations of ignorance on your part, it is probably best if you don't include stupid mistakes in your complaint. It undermines your argument somewhat. If you doubt that my correction is itself correct, go and look up infer and imply in a dictionary. You didn't answer my question. You obviously did not appreciate me inferring you might be wrong hey? This is exactly how others feel with this condescending superior attitude. It doesn't matter who is right or wrong, people have feelings to be taken into account. I'm sorry I pushed your button. It was not my intention as I believe there isn't that much difference between imply and infer. I did look them both up and my meaning was perfectly clear. There was no need whatsoever for you to show your superiority, even if you were right. There is no need to call my alledged mistake 'STUPID' either. Your reason, I believe, was that you corrected me to stop me looking foolish as I am arguing against ignorance? I am, YOURS and the rest who have no idea how their judgmental attitude hurts, belittles, angers and much more. I am suggesting that this attitude, though innocent, has an effect on others that you may not be aware of. Example: None of you responded to Heinriks' post of one sentence with every word spelled wrong and void of punctuation. He made a very valid point and no-one picked it up. Why was that? There is no action without a reaction. I was innocently doing to you what you innocently do to others. I see my behaviour at antagonizing others and it was truly unintentional. This is how I truly feel. I love your minds. I love the english language. I love communication with others. I love this thread. The only beef I have is the dissconnection the attitude creates between human beings purely because we are different. Not inferior or superior. Just different. We need to embrace this difference and see that we all have something to offer. Those of you very bright people should be leading the way and using your gifts to help others, not hurt them and dismiss them.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1433 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Juggs is infamous for just that. As are a bunch of other creos. Actually, now that I think about it, it's the rare creo who acknowledges his error! And the rarest in my experience is actually changing to the correct usage of terminology and concepts. It's more often that cognitive dissonance prevents corrections, and thus they just don't see it as the issue - they are right and you are wrong, not matter if you were the scientist who defined the term in the first place ... Enjoy. we are limited in our ability to understand by our ability to understand RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
riVeRraT Member (Idle past 444 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
now that I think about it, it's the rare creo who acknowledges his error! I have yet to see people who are not "creo's" acknowledge their errors.They will usually change subject first.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
pelican Member (Idle past 5014 days) Posts: 781 From: australia Joined: |
rahvin writes: When speaking from a position of superior knowledge of science to one whose proficiency in that arena is less than that of a teenage child and who yet purports to be able to refute virtually the entire body of scientific theory, condescension is inevitable. You are confusing lack of education with someone who is as pig-headed as yourself, no offense intended, but I can't think of a better word. My apologies for not being as articulate as you. rahvin, we can only know what we know. If I knew exactly what you knew there would be no need of you and we would have to fight. I am trying to bring to your awareness something that the intelligent mindset cannot comprehend. The mindset blocks certain information that does not fit the criteria. Now we are in the same position as you describe above except, I know something you do not and you are becoming annoyed with me because I disagree with you. You are disagreeing with me too but you won't see the connection because you are right on both counts, right?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
purpledawn Member (Idle past 3485 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
quote: No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. --Eleanor Roosevelt This is the wrong place to look for sympathy, empathy, or understanding. It is a debate board. It's all about the battle. So it is best to keep your Achilles heel guarded and find your opponent's instead. That's why it is wise to keep the encyclopedia idea of debate in mind and keep emotions out of it. That why we are to argue the position and not the person.
Usually, in a well-conducted debate, speakers are either emotionally uncommitted or can preserve sufficient detachment to maintain a coolly academic approach. -- Encyclopedia Brittanica, on debate As Zawi pointed out in Message 3: Someone who is wrong about an issue can increase their persuasiveness if their writing skills are superior to that of their opponent's, giving them an unfair advantage in debate,... So if one is up against a good writer, they need to respond accordingly and not stoop to the personal. If one is up against someone who stoops to the personal, one needs to maintain their distance.
quote:Unfortunately, since this is a debate board and opposition is the name of the game, it is difficult to just be inquisitive without being pummeled. Sad but true.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
pelican Member (Idle past 5014 days) Posts: 781 From: australia Joined: |
Sympathy would probably be more accurate. Are you suggesting 'sympathy' instaed of 'empathy?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Rahvin Member Posts: 4046 Joined: Member Rating: 7.4 |
You are confusing lack of education with someone who is as pig-headed as yourself, no offense intended, but I can't think of a better word. My apologies for not being as articulate as you. Yawn.
Rahvin, we can only know what we know. If I knew exactly what you knew there would be no need of you and we would have to fight. I assume there was supposed to be a "not" in there, right?
I am trying to bring to your awareness something that the intelligent mindset cannot comprehend. The mindset blocks certain information that does not fit the criteria. So it is your position that ignorance is, in some cases, a good thing. I strongly disagree.
The mindset blocks certain information that does not fit the criteria. You assume that education and intellect require a closed mind - this is far from the case. Honest, rational people of any level of education will accept the idea that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and no claim is to be trusted unless it can be backed up with evidence. If a Creationist were to, for example, provide me with incontrovertible evidence that refutes a position I believe to be true, I will accept the position that has the best evidence and makes the most accurate predictions about the natural world. My beliefs are tentative, and rely on evidence. The beliefs of a Creationist were written a few thousand years ago, and tend not to change a whole lot.
Now we are in the same position as you describe above except, I know something you do not and you are becoming annoyed with me because I disagree with you. What, exactly, do you know that I do not? I'm certainly not omniscient, but I'd like to know what you're referring to. And annoyed? Not really. I just don't care if someone is offended over the course of a debate, so long as the offense is not related to bigotry.
You are disagreeing with me too but you won't see the connection because you are right on both counts, right? I'm not sure what you're saying. Please elaborate. Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Quetzal Member (Idle past 5900 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
I have yet to see people who are not "creo's" acknowledge their errors. Heh. You obviously missed the thread on symbiosis where - after 6 or 8 pages - WK forced me to eat major crow and completely re-evaluate a cherished idea that I had held for over ten years. Now THAT was a classic. And I STILL hate him for it .
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NosyNed Member Posts: 9004 From: Canada Joined: |
it is difficult to just be inquisitive without being pummeled. I disagree strongly. Those who come in honestly asking questions are always(almost) treated gently even when they are waaaay wrong and lacking in basic knowledge. However, this is rare in the creo community who come in arrogantly acting like they have both encyclopedic knowledge and unrivaled reasoning skills. They are not inquisitive. They know little and intend to keep it that way. Those folks are pummeled.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Unfortunately, since this is a debate board and opposition is the name of the game, it is difficult to just be inquisitive without being pummeled. I really think that is wrong. If someone is inquisitive, that is they actually ask questions, I think they usually find many folk here more than willing to try to provide an answer. Where the pummeling usually seems to happen is when folk come here thinking they actually have the answers already. Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
pelican Member (Idle past 5014 days) Posts: 781 From: australia Joined: |
rahvin writes: It's not our fault if you feel inferior when being told you're wrong. When someone says the Earth is 6000 years old and backs it up by saying radiometric dating is wrong without any evidence for that, or uses the word "theory" incorrectly for the fiftieth time in two pages, or otherwise demonstrates that they don;t even have the barest comprehension of the subject matter they are arguing against, the rest of us will correct them. If we sound condescending in doing so, well...this is a debate forum. If being on the losing end of a debate hurts your widdle feelings, feel free to not participate. There is a difference between avoiding attacking an individual and making a person "feel bad." Telling people the Bible is full of inaccuracies and outright mythology offends quite a few people here, and misuse of scientific terms offends others. Whether one party feels bad after the argument is concluded is irrelevant to whether one side is correct or not. Offense is irrelevant. Empathy is irrelevant. Your anger is irrelevant. All that matters is the argument. The best way to combat someone you feel is being condescending or offensive is to prove them wrong. Well seeing as it's all irrelevant to you, it won't matter if I respond in a sarcastic manner. Your judgment (which doesn't matter because you are right) of me feeling inferior is BULLSHIT! You could not be more mistaken. You won't even be able to admit you are wrong if you get caught with your hand in the till. Don't even go there trying to patronise me with 'widdle' feelings. Who the hell do you think you are? If that isn't the epitome of condescending behaviour I don't know what is. If I wasn't here you would be still debating how clever you are and how inferior others are compared to you without opposition. You all jsu nod and agree with each other. That's not a debate. That mass mentality. The person who doesn't understand the meaning of theory may need to be taught differently. This person is clearly having something rammed down their throat that they cannot comprehend and it is judged harshly. Why keep using the same method for everyone when we are all different? If we all had the same academic intelligence, who would want to do the menial work? None of this occurs to your closed mind. I am not speaking om my own behalf. I don't need your opinion to identify myself. But others do. Others rely on you to understnd them and they trust you because you are educated. Most of these posts don't give a shit about others and prefer to be amongst their own kind. You don't know what you are missing.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Granny Magda Member Posts: 2462 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 3.8 |
quote: Do you mean this question?
quote: You are more than welcome to infer whatever you like. Your inference might even be correct. That is up to you. I cannot control what you might infer from my posts. Your inferences are not my responsibility.As for the implication of inferiority, I agree with you that an inferior command of English does not imply a that a person is inferior overall. It does imply that they might not be the sharpest tool in the box, but that's not the same thing. Poor English does not necessarily reflect a lack of intellect, or that an given argument is wrong, but it doesn't look good. As a general rule of thumb, it seems that most of the posts on this board which are expressed in semi-literate gibberish are also wrong in their content. If you want to avoid condescension, it behooves you to avoid making stupid mistakes. The widespread misuse of imply and infer is just a mistake that happens to irritate me. Don't take it personally, but equally, don't continue to make the same mistake, after it has been pointed out to you. That does look bad. Infer and imply have related, but distinct meanings. Getting them wrong looks bad and just makes your posts that little bit harder to grasp. I responded to you in order to correct your mistake, but also to imply that your complaint about condescension over linguistic errors sounds ironic whilst you continue to make linguistic errors. quote: Now you are implying that no-one has responded to Heinrik's garbled sentence because we are unable to understand it. An alternative inference, based on the lack of responses, might be that it was understood, but no-one cared to reply.
quote: Then why don't you capitalise it correctly?I admit that I'm teasing you a little, but you leave yourself wide open to it. Grow a thicker skin. Edited by Granny Magda, : html fixed Mutate and Survive
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
pelican Member (Idle past 5014 days) Posts: 781 From: australia Joined: |
nator writes: What does that have to do with this thread, and the fact that it appears, as it does, on a science-based debate board? Jesus, I'm wrong again, I thought it was the 'coffee house.'
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024