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Author | Topic: Anyone else notice this pattern? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
purpledawn Member (Idle past 3485 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
Since I don't really get into the evo vs creo deabate, I'm not talking about those issues.
The Coffee House has a lot of issues that don't deal with evolution or creation. There are times when questions or attempts to brainstorm are returned as battles.That doesn't mean everyone responds that way, but there are some that are very battle oriented. I've lost a bit of fur in a few. I am happy to say that you are not one who does that.
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pelican Member (Idle past 5013 days) Posts: 781 From: australia Joined: |
Honesty is the best policy and I admit that I leave myself wide open on purpose. I want to observe the reactions. I'm having a truly good time and thanks for your concern towards my feelings.
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Percy Member Posts: 22500 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
My only comment related to the current discussion is that I don't understand why people wouldn't want to make it as easy as possible to tell them apart from loons who rave on street corners.
One more comment, I guess, a rhetorical question. If you write at a 4th grade level or lower and you're an adult, why would you broadcast that information to the world by joining discussion boards? Unless, of course, the goal is practicing your communication skills. Alright, one more rhetorical question. What is it about some people that makes them want to not only discuss things they know nothing about, but even to insist, for literally pages and pages, that they're right? Okay, I'm done. I feel better now. --Percy
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1433 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
... forced me to eat major crow and completely re-evaluate a cherished idea ... Holmes did that to me on the concept of morals from first principles. Caused a shift in thinking that I'm still working on. I've known instances of people on both sides acknowledging error, but it is rare ... in human behavior. Thanks. we are limited in our ability to understand by our ability to understand RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1433 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
What is it about some people that makes them want to not only discuss things they know nothing about, but even to insist, for literally pages and pages, that they're right? It's called the "law of incompetence" - incompetent people are incompetent to see that they are incompetent because they are incompetent. If they were competent enough to perceive that they were incompetent, then they would be able to change and be competent (or at least know enough to know that they didn't know enough to know, know what I mean?). It's actually a corollary of the peter principle. Incompetent people also do not recognize competent people for the same reason, thus your incompetent boss will never recognize your competence and criticize you for not doing things his way no matter how good your way is. It's very annoying to those few of us who are competent ... Enjoy. Edited by RAZD, : added video example we are limited in our ability to understand by our ability to understand RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share.
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nator Member (Idle past 2197 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: How often does either side actually make errors, though? If one side makes significantly fewer errors in reasoning and/or fact, then we wouldn't expect that side to "admit" to making many.
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nator Member (Idle past 2197 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Er, no. We can come to know more, and understand more, through the process of learning.
quote: So...someone intelligent is somehow not able to comprehend certain information? Such as?
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nator Member (Idle past 2197 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Not at all. Inquisitiveness, I like. I'll answer honest questions from someone who truly wants to learn all day long, and if I don't know the answer, I'm happy to say that I don't know. I'll do my best to politely correct someone's incorrect information, even if they don't ask a question but instead are just wrong. I think that most science-minded folks here are pretty much the same. (Molbiogirl and Crashfrog are sometimes too quick to turn sarcastic, I think) What usually happens here, though, is the non-science-types are often so very wrong, or are sloppy thinkers, or are simply uninterested in learning anything that threatens their preferred beliefs that they simply give any polite efforts the big F.U. in one form or another. Sometimes it takes the shape of an abusive temper tantrum, sometimes it is repetition of arguments instead of addressing rebuttals, sometimes it is playing dumb in order to avoid addressing rebuttals, sometimes it is being coy and playing word games to distract from the topic and bog down debate over terms or intent to avoid addressing rebuttals. In other words, they trot out all forms of dishonest debate tactics. Is the science-side immune? Of course not. Is it far more common, and obvious amongst non-critical thinkers? I think so. 'Explanations like "God won't be tested by scientific studies" but local yokels can figure it out just by staying aware of what's going on have no rational basis whatsoever.' -Percy "What we need is not the will to believe but the will to find out." - Bertrand Russell "Man's greatest asset is the unsettled mind." - Isaac Asimov "We not only believe what we see, to some extent we see what we believe...The implications of our beliefs are frightening." - Richard Gregory
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nator Member (Idle past 2197 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Um, no. We science-minded types disagree all the time, and correct each other all the time. Of the top of my head, I have had at least one argument each with Percy, jar, Crashfrog, Holmes, Purpledawn, Rrhain, Archer, arachnophilia, brennakimi, CK, Taz, Catholic Scientist, Asgara, Jon, pink sasquatch, truthlover, Ben, and Subbie, all of whom are evolutionists.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: I know it's a rhetorical question but the answer seems to be pure egotism and bias. The same egotism that makes Buzsaw claim to be an expert on Biblical prophecy - when he knows almost nothing about the subject. The same bias that made Buzsaw assert that an article on a penny stock site about hurricanes had to be accurate because he liked what it said - without even a basic investigation. (I don't use Buz as an example out of malice, it's just that he has provided the clearest examples).
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anglagard Member (Idle past 864 days) Posts: 2339 From: Socorro, New Mexico USA Joined: |
nator writes: Of the top of my head, I have had at least one argument each with Percy, jar, Crashfrog, Holmes, Purpledawn, Rrhain, Archer, arachnophilia, brennakimi, CK, Taz, Catholic Scientist, Asgara, Jon, pink sasquatch, truthlover, Ben, and Subbie, all of whom are evolutionists. Damn, can't I even get an honorable mention for tactical disagreements? Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider - Francis Bacon The more we understand particular things, the more we understand God - Spinoza
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compmage Member (Idle past 5181 days) Posts: 601 From: South Africa Joined: |
RAZD writes: It's called the "law of incompetence" - incompetent people are incompetent to see that they are incompetent because they are incompetent. If they were competent enough to perceive that they were incompetent, then they would be able to change and be competent (or at least know enough to know that they didn't know enough to know, know what I mean?). I read a paper on that once (Unskilled and Unaware of it). Something that has always puzzled me is the perception many creationists seem to have, and not only creationists, that education is a bad thing and that it somehow 'closes' off the mind?
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pelican Member (Idle past 5013 days) Posts: 781 From: australia Joined: |
It amazes me how you can quote something as true because someone important said it. E.G
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. --Eleanor Roosevelt I doubt Eleanor Roosevelt ever experienced feeling inferior and yet it is taken as true.Have you heard of brainwashing, influence, manipulation? Believe me these all happen without consent. This is the wrong place to look for sympathy, empathy, or understanding. It is a debate board. It's all about the battle. And who do you suppose is going to battle for those who cannot respond in enough of an academic way that you can understand, if not me?
So it is best to keep your Achilles heel guarded and find your opponent's instead. You think I haven't?
As Zawi pointed out in Message 3: Someone who is wrong about an issue can increase their persuasiveness if their writing skills are superior to that of their opponent's, giving them an unfair advantage in debate,... Exactly!!! This thread proves this point. Those who are wrong believe they are right because they imagine they are superior in more than their writing and debating skills.
So if one is up against a good writer, they need to respond accordingly and not stoop to the personal. Don't you mean if one IS a good writer, they need to respond accordingly and not stoop to the personal? Some comments made of those not as literate have been down right personal and they cannot respond accordingly, as many of these posts have pointed out.
If one is up against someone who stoops to the personal, one needs to maintain their distance. Haven't you noticed? They do maintain their distance. There is only me who is a glutton for punishment and I do get pummled and one day the 'pummelers' will see themselves and stop it.
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pelican Member (Idle past 5013 days) Posts: 781 From: australia Joined: |
molbiogirl writes: Awfully hard to avoid when debating a creo. Abysmal ignorance of even basic biology (Juggs recently insisted that building a single protein requires all 20 amino acids!) is a goldmine to the sarcastic among us. What on earth are you talking about? I am trained in biochemistry and perfectly capable of informed political discussion. I am trained in video production and perfectly capable of discussing the finer points of sculpture. What if you educated folk are too educated to understand some of us?
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pelican Member (Idle past 5013 days) Posts: 781 From: australia Joined: |
Maybe you are over educated and cannot comprehend that not all people comprehend in the same the way as you. Perhaps you could try a different way of explaining yourself that is easier to understand.
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