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Author Topic:   Anyone else notice this pattern?
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 166 of 318 (450628)
01-22-2008 9:40 PM
Reply to: Message 165 by pelican
01-22-2008 9:34 PM


Re: shoe on the other foot
Ask yourself if you would like to learn about the misconceptions you have on Evolution?
Who do you think I should ask, my neighbor? my dad? my mechanic?
Isn't this really the crux of the issue - how do you validate information?
Enjoy
Edited by RAZD, : ...

Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by pelican, posted 01-22-2008 9:34 PM pelican has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 179 by pelican, posted 01-23-2008 8:37 AM RAZD has replied

NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 167 of 318 (450632)
01-22-2008 9:56 PM
Reply to: Message 165 by pelican
01-22-2008 9:34 PM


My misconceptions
Ask yourself if you would like to learn about the misconceptions you have on Evolution?
Guaranteed!! Absolutely!!!
Please, pick one that you think is important and propose a thread on it. We would love to learn.
I have friends in high (or low) places who would be glad to hurry your proposal through the process.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by pelican, posted 01-22-2008 9:34 PM pelican has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 168 by molbiogirl, posted 01-22-2008 10:34 PM NosyNed has not replied
 Message 169 by jar, posted 01-22-2008 10:51 PM NosyNed has not replied
 Message 180 by pelican, posted 01-23-2008 8:50 AM NosyNed has replied

molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2641 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 168 of 318 (450633)
01-22-2008 10:34 PM
Reply to: Message 167 by NosyNed
01-22-2008 9:56 PM


Re: My misconceptions
Please, pick one that you think is important and propose a thread on it. We would love to learn.
Second!
I'll keep an eye out for that PNT!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by NosyNed, posted 01-22-2008 9:56 PM NosyNed has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 169 of 318 (450634)
01-22-2008 10:51 PM
Reply to: Message 167 by NosyNed
01-22-2008 9:56 PM


Re: My misconceptions
Absolutely. We are only learning when we correct misconceptions.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by NosyNed, posted 01-22-2008 9:56 PM NosyNed has not replied

pelican
Member (Idle past 4985 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 170 of 318 (450660)
01-23-2008 4:38 AM
Reply to: Message 155 by Trixie
01-22-2008 11:20 AM


Re: Just to add to what Percy said
trixie writes:
Some of us may be highly educated in scientific fields, but that dosn't mean that we can only understand what fellow scientists are saying.
I think this is exactly what it means. Are you listening to the creationists arguments and evidence concerning creation with understanding?
trixie writes:
but these people will still insist that they are right and we are wrong.
Aren't you doing the same thing? You refute each others beliefs. Your beliefs are built on physical evidence and creationists on spiritual evidence but neither understands or accepts the other and yet you are describing the same thing.
Do you expect anyone to understand your point of view when you don't understand theirs and make no attempt to.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by Trixie, posted 01-22-2008 11:20 AM Trixie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 171 by Rrhain, posted 01-23-2008 4:54 AM pelican has replied
 Message 176 by cavediver, posted 01-23-2008 7:34 AM pelican has replied
 Message 178 by PaulK, posted 01-23-2008 7:51 AM pelican has not replied
 Message 195 by Trixie, posted 01-23-2008 3:57 PM pelican has not replied

Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 171 of 318 (450661)
01-23-2008 4:54 AM
Reply to: Message 170 by pelican
01-23-2008 4:38 AM


Re: Just to add to what Percy said
dameeva writes:
quote:
Your beliefs are built on physical evidence and creationists on spiritual evidence but neither understands or accepts the other and yet you are describing the same thing.
Then explain the Catholic Church. The official position of the Catholic Church (stated by Leo XIII in the Encyclical and then expounded upon by John Paul II in the Magesterium) is that evolution is the only scientific theory we have to explain the diversification of life upon this planet.
Are you implying that the Pope isn't spiritual? I'm not saying you have to agree with Catholic theology...just whether or not you think Catholics have a theology.
You seem to think that it's an either/or, that evolution and god cannot exist together.
Have you considered the possibility that god does exist but not in the way you think?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by pelican, posted 01-23-2008 4:38 AM pelican has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 174 by pelican, posted 01-23-2008 7:20 AM Rrhain has replied

pelican
Member (Idle past 4985 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 172 of 318 (450662)
01-23-2008 5:01 AM
Reply to: Message 153 by Percy
01-22-2008 9:48 AM


Re: Anything is possible
heinrik writes:
What if you educated folk are too educated to understand some of us?
percy writes:
The question being asked is why some people are incapable of recognizing when they don't know something.
You dismissed Heinriks' concept as silly. Could this be the example of 'why some people are incapable of recognizing when they don't know something'? To be specific, in this case because it is not understood the reader automatically assumes it is 'silly'.
Your analysis is spot on. Your only 'mistake' is in thinking it isn't you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by Percy, posted 01-22-2008 9:48 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 187 by Percy, posted 01-23-2008 10:26 AM pelican has replied

pelican
Member (Idle past 4985 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 173 of 318 (450663)
01-23-2008 5:08 AM
Reply to: Message 163 by teen4christ
01-22-2008 8:08 PM


Re: Anything is possible
teen4 writes:
You are allowing insignificant details to make you miss the significant ones. Rather than purposely trying to win a debate by purposely being dense, perhaps you should consider growing up?
What are the significant details that have been missed and what do you mean by 'purposely being dense??

This message is a reply to:
 Message 163 by teen4christ, posted 01-22-2008 8:08 PM teen4christ has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 196 by teen4christ, posted 01-23-2008 5:58 PM pelican has replied

pelican
Member (Idle past 4985 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 174 of 318 (450676)
01-23-2008 7:20 AM
Reply to: Message 171 by Rrhain
01-23-2008 4:54 AM


Re: Just to add to what Percy said
rrhain writes:
The official position of the Catholic Church is that evolution is the only scientific theory we have to explain the diversification of life upon this planet.
Yes it is the only scientific theory we have that I am aware of. Doesn't the church also preach a creation theory that is not at all scientific? You know the one, the theory about god and devil?
You seem to think that it's an either/or, that evolution and god cannot exist together.
You obviously haven't read all my posts and are assuming incorrectly.
Have you considered the possibility that god does exist but not in the way you think?
I certainly have considered the possibilty that god exists in a different way to the religious view. How do you personally think god may exist in a different way to what you imagine I am thinking?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 171 by Rrhain, posted 01-23-2008 4:54 AM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 203 by Rrhain, posted 01-24-2008 12:05 AM pelican has replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 175 of 318 (450679)
01-23-2008 7:27 AM
Reply to: Message 146 by anglagard
01-22-2008 1:52 AM


Well, alright.
quote:
Damn, can't I even get an honorable mention for tactical disagreements?
Sure, why not.
Honorable Mention awarded to: anglagard.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 146 by anglagard, posted 01-22-2008 1:52 AM anglagard has not replied

cavediver
Member (Idle past 3643 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 176 of 318 (450680)
01-23-2008 7:34 AM
Reply to: Message 170 by pelican
01-23-2008 4:38 AM


Re: Just to add to what Percy said
Are you listening to the creationists arguments and evidence concerning creation with understanding?
Do you expect anyone to understand your point of view when you don't understand theirs and make no attempt to.
What you are missing is that many here on the side of science were actually once creationists and argued from that side, using identical arguments to those being regurgitated today. These once-creationists now range from atheists to deists to theistic evolutionists.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by pelican, posted 01-23-2008 4:38 AM pelican has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 199 by pelican, posted 01-23-2008 8:45 PM cavediver has replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 177 of 318 (450681)
01-23-2008 7:38 AM
Reply to: Message 148 by pelican
01-22-2008 4:33 AM


Re: Don't Consent
quote:
I doubt Eleanor Roosevelt ever experienced feeling inferior and yet it is taken as true.
It is well-known that Eleanor Roosevelt considered herself to be ugly. Her husband had an affair (and continued seeing the other woman for the rest of his life) with her own social secretary, which I'm sure rather damaged her feelings of self-worth as a woman.
source
So, doubt no longer, Chester.
The funny thing is, you could have done what I did before you posted a claim about Eleanor Roosevelt; looked at Eleanor Roosevelt's wiki page to make sure what you were claiming was supported by evidence.
Yet, you didn't do what took me about three minutes to do, and instead just made it easy for me to point out your sloppy mistake.
Why didn't you take the trouble to make sure what you were saying was true, or at least wasn't specifically and particularly contradicted?
I think this habit of fact-checking ourselves and making sure our arguments are actually correct and based in good quality, reliable evidence is the single biggest differentiator between the science-minded and the non-critical thinker.
I can't tell you the number of times I have not posted an argument or a claim because when I read up on it, I realized that I was wrong about it.
So, tell me, in your opinion, is the person who habitually fact checks themselves a person who is unable to learn, or is the person who never fact checks themselves the one with the greater ability to learn?
quote:
And who do you suppose is going to battle for those who cannot respond in enough of an academic way that you can understand, if not me?
Nobody is suggesting that we all write in an "academic manner".
I certainly don't write in anything close to an "academic manner".
I'd be delighted with everyone writing as though they got a B in 10th grade English.
Edited by nator, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by pelican, posted 01-22-2008 4:33 AM pelican has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 200 by pelican, posted 01-23-2008 9:19 PM nator has replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 178 of 318 (450682)
01-23-2008 7:51 AM
Reply to: Message 170 by pelican
01-23-2008 4:38 AM


Re: Just to add to what Percy said
quote:
I think this is exactly what it means. Are you listening to the creationists arguments and evidence concerning creation with understanding?
Generally yes - in so far as creationists are willing and able to explain themselves. (Which goes back to competence at writing, too).
quote:
Aren't you doing the same thing? You refute each others beliefs. Your beliefs are built on physical evidence and creationists on spiritual evidence but neither understands or accepts the other and yet you are describing the same thing.
Clearly you don't understand the points being argued. On the points being discussed here creationists do not generally claim to have "spiritual evidence" or even argue over the sort of evidence that should be accepted.
To go back to my earlier examples, the creationist who claims to be an expert on Biblical prophecy started a discussion of Mark's version of a prophecy by referring to an element found only in Luke. On being questioned he said that he assumed that the two agreed.
Similarly with the hurricane article the creationist accepted that the penny stock magazine was not an authoritative source and could not find any authoritative source that agreed with it - but nevertheless claimed that it was factually accurate even though it was very easy to debunk.
As these examples indicate creationists are intellectually lazy (they do not bother to check their "facts") and strongly biased (they strongly assume that sources that say something they like are accurate) - independant of any claim to have "spiritual evidence".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by pelican, posted 01-23-2008 4:38 AM pelican has not replied

pelican
Member (Idle past 4985 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 179 of 318 (450690)
01-23-2008 8:37 AM
Reply to: Message 166 by RAZD
01-22-2008 9:40 PM


Re: shoe on the other foot
How would you know you had misconceptions? How many of your misconceptions are you carrying right now? Tell me about them. I may be able to clarify or I am sure someone will.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by RAZD, posted 01-22-2008 9:40 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 197 by RAZD, posted 01-23-2008 7:04 PM pelican has replied

pelican
Member (Idle past 4985 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 180 of 318 (450694)
01-23-2008 8:50 AM
Reply to: Message 167 by NosyNed
01-22-2008 9:56 PM


Re: My misconceptions
Ask yourself if you would like to learn about the misconceptions you have on Evolution?
nosey ted writes:
Guaranteed!! Absolutely!!!
Please, pick one that you think is important and propose a thread on it. We would love to learn.
I have friends in high (or low) places who would be glad to hurry your proposal through the process.
Ahh, I should have said "alledged" misconceptions because I don't know what they are. However, your reply infers that you do and I would be truly very happy to try and help you with your misconceptions if you would care to articulate what they are.
Edited by Heinrik, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by NosyNed, posted 01-22-2008 9:56 PM NosyNed has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 181 by nwr, posted 01-23-2008 8:56 AM pelican has replied
 Message 184 by Granny Magda, posted 01-23-2008 9:56 AM pelican has not replied
 Message 192 by NosyNed, posted 01-23-2008 11:01 AM pelican has replied

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