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Author Topic:   The only difference between suicide and martyrdom is press coverage.
is this thing loaded
Inactive Member

Message 31 of 37 (44533)
06-28-2003 2:12 PM

hey hey. ummm yeah haven't been here for a while so please be patient while i try to catch up. thanks.

it would come out insightful or brave or smooth or charming.

is this thing loaded
Inactive Member

Message 32 of 37 (44534)
06-28-2003 2:18 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by crashfrog
06-23-2003 10:32 PM

Re: preventing future cell death morally
He lay down his life for us of his own accord , therefore what ifs are meaningless with me.

then leave.

it would come out insightful or brave or smooth or charming.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by crashfrog, posted 06-23-2003 10:32 PM crashfrog has not yet responded

is this thing loaded
Inactive Member

Message 33 of 37 (44535)
06-28-2003 2:23 PM

I dunno. it kindof seems like cheating to me. i mean hey yeah i'll die for your sins but its all cool cause i know im coming back in three days. i mean if i could give my life to feed the entire world as long as i knew i could come back in three days, i'd do it.

it would come out insightful or brave or smooth or charming.

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by Pogo, posted 07-02-2003 10:52 PM is this thing loaded has not yet responded

Inactive Member

Message 34 of 37 (44892)
07-02-2003 10:52 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by is this thing loaded
06-28-2003 2:23 PM

Re: Cheater...
Although it appears that we are straying, I'd have to agree with loaded; was the incarnation/crucifixion/resurrection really a sacrifice, considering that (using Arnold's voice) "I'll be back"? Granted, if Jesus was in fact tortured ,beaten and murdered in the manner that Christian history suggests, it was a horrible tragedy. But according to Christianity, it was not fatal.

As to the original post, you raise a few interesting questions, and isn't this forum all about asking and answering questions? Really, Mike the Wiz; it's just a 'what if', not a challenge your faith. :-)

IMO, Christianity would not have gained such notority if it lacked the death that the central figure, Jesus, suffered. I base this on the ease that many Christians that I've encoutered use the emotionally charged act of His death was a witnessing device. Regarding the jail death, what if Jesus (or another equally suited saviour or saviours) came, only to find themselves in jail, sold into slavery, murdered, etc. and it just so happens that Jesus was the only to have pulled it off? A' la Neo in Reloaded.
Anyway, good discussion; I'm a bit tired now, so I apologize if I am rambling...again.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by is this thing loaded, posted 06-28-2003 2:23 PM is this thing loaded has not yet responded

Member (Idle past 799 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001

Message 35 of 37 (45066)
07-04-2003 9:23 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by mike the wiz
06-22-2003 5:02 PM

Well this is just about the most lame arguement against Jesus i have ever heard,the fact is he did not die in prison,and that all these people are agreeing with you on this site has shocked me,only the other day i was saying people were intelligent(members)however i now retract this statement!

have you even got a point? Lol

Would you have the same reaction to a book which discussed if Muhammed had died in prison, would we have ever heard of Islam?

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 Message 9 by mike the wiz, posted 06-22-2003 5:02 PM mike the wiz has not yet responded

Inactive Member

Message 36 of 37 (45087)
07-04-2003 2:24 PM

Just couldn't resist...
Tell me what you think
About your friends at the top
Now who d'you think besides yourself
Was the pick of the crop?
Buddah was he where it's at?
Is he where you are?
Could Mahomet move a mountain
Or was that just PR?
Did you mean to die like that?
Was that a mistake or
Did you know your messy death
Would be a record breaker?

From "Jesus Christ, Superstar" Andrew Lloyd Weber

There's a book called "The Savage God", it's about suicide and goes into explanation of how suicide became a "sin", because followers of Christ were commiting suicide so often that the religion was dying out. If Jesus had died in prison it would have been less effective. It was a PR tool. Anyway, I'm off for a fun-filled weekend out of town. Everyone have a great weekend and be safe.


Posts: 3931
Joined: 09-26-2002

Message 37 of 37 (45089)
07-04-2003 2:25 PM

From accidental new topic start elsewhere
is this thing loaded said:
I wanted to get back to the main topic. sorry if i lead you off course. The only difference between suicide and martyrdom is press coverage. Martyrdom is essentially suicide because you are giving up any power in the matter by delivering yourself to your oppressors. what makes a difference is how many people see you die. The act of martyrdom has a significant effect on those who see it. The communists recognized that public executions ended up creating more of a problem than it solved and therefore kept their murders secret to prevent the people being influenced by it.

That false start topic will be closed, and probably deleted after I get the topic tracking database caught up.


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