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Author Topic:   Anyone else notice this pattern?
nator
Member (Idle past 280 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 301 of 318 (451312)
01-27-2008 8:36 AM
Reply to: Message 294 by Hill Billy
01-27-2008 1:30 AM


Re: And now...my rebuttal.
See, this is a great example of what I'm talking about.

See how this writer misuses punctuation and has trouble remembering to put spaces after periods and commas?

I'm not actually sure where Hill Billy falls regarding the Evo/Creo debate, but I'm betting he doesn't have a degree in Biology if you know what I mean.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 294 by Hill Billy, posted 01-27-2008 1:30 AM Hill Billy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 307 by Hill Billy, posted 01-27-2008 11:41 AM nator has responded

  
nator
Member (Idle past 280 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 302 of 318 (451313)
01-27-2008 8:39 AM
Reply to: Message 296 by pelican
01-27-2008 3:07 AM


Re: Not Quite
quote:
Are you saying that E=MC2 has actually been tried and tested?

Yes.

quote:
If it has it would not be a theory.

Incorrect. It will always be a theory.

In science, calling something a "theory" is as confirmed as it gets.

For example, the Theory of a Heliocentric Solar System is still a Theory, even though it is unlikely in the extreme that we will come across new information that contradicts the idea that the sun is the center of our solar system.

Edited by nator, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 296 by pelican, posted 01-27-2008 3:07 AM pelican has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 18377
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 303 of 318 (451314)
01-27-2008 8:43 AM
Reply to: Message 282 by pelican
01-26-2008 8:10 PM


Re: Not Quite
Heinrik writes:

Can you prove there is no god?

Can you prove this theory E=MC2

I do not believe either can prove the other 100% wrong.

You've already received a couple replies explaining why this makes no sense as argument, so I'll just focus on the improper use of the word prove, and on the "100% wrong" portion. Scientists use the word prove all the time, but in science it's just shorthand for "support with evidence". Plus science is tentative, so nothing in science is ever 100% right or 100% wrong. So what you're really saying is:

Can you provide evidence that there is no god?

Depends upon what you mean by "god". Did you intend the lowercase? If not and you meant the fundamentalist Christian God of the 6000 year old earth and global flood, then yes, of course, we can provide lots of evidence that that God does not exist.

Can you provide evidence of this theory E=MC2?

Yes, of course, scads and scads of evidence.

I do not believe either can provide evidence that the other 100% wrong.

Absolutely right! In science nothing is ever 100% certain, not even being wrong.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 282 by pelican, posted 01-26-2008 8:10 PM pelican has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 304 by pelican, posted 01-27-2008 9:30 AM Percy has not yet responded

  
pelican
Member (Idle past 3095 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 304 of 318 (451328)
01-27-2008 9:30 AM
Reply to: Message 303 by Percy
01-27-2008 8:43 AM


Re: Not Quite
Depends upon what you mean by "god". Did you intend the lowercase? If not and you meant the fundamentalist Christian God of the 6000 year old earth and global flood, then yes, of course, we can provide lots of evidence that that God does not exist.

would you like to prove the god I believe in cannot exist, if I do not use any religion\science\evolution?

Edited by Heinrik, : grammatical error


This message is a reply to:
 Message 303 by Percy, posted 01-27-2008 8:43 AM Percy has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 305 by RAZD, posted 01-27-2008 9:45 AM pelican has not yet responded

RAZD
Member
Posts: 19819
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 305 of 318 (451332)
01-27-2008 9:45 AM
Reply to: Message 304 by pelican
01-27-2008 9:30 AM


Summary Time
To All:

We've reached 300+ posts and time to make summary statements and close the thread. I would like to take this particular response as emblematic of where creationists typically end up -- in denial of contradictory evidence:

would you like to prove the god I believe in cannot exist, if I do not use any religion\science\evolution?

Are you saying that in order to believe in your god you need to deny all the knowledge and all the evidence of all religions\sciences (and "science" includes evolution)?

To me it is irrelevant how well people communicate, what is critical is logical thinking that is self-consistent and has a solid basis in reality (ie not contradicted by evidence of objective reality).

That is pretty much the argument in a nut-shell.

To Heinrik:

Perhaps you would care to continue the discussion on how one validates their concepts of reality on the thread Perceptions of Reality. I am interested in what methods (in addition to the scientific method) we can use to determine the validity of concepts.

edit: I have started a new Perceptions of Reality thread as the old one is near 300 posts.

One other thing I would like to add on the issue of comprehension, and that is about the use of words:

  • when person A uses a different definition of a word than person B they are not talking about the same thing.

  • when person A uses a different definition of a word than is used in a specialty field (science religion philosophy whatever) then they are not talking about the same thing, they are not talking about the specialty field (science religion philosophy whatever) but something else.

    To Heinrik & Hill Billy: are you sure you are not also doing what you claim others are doing? :D

    Enjoy.

    Edited by RAZD, : added update



    we are limited in our ability to understand
    by our ability to understand
    RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
    ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
    to share.


    Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 304 by pelican, posted 01-27-2008 9:30 AM pelican has not yet responded

  • Hill Billy
    Member (Idle past 3464 days)
    Posts: 163
    From: The hills
    Joined: 01-26-2008


    Message 306 of 318 (451343)
    01-27-2008 11:23 AM
    Reply to: Message 295 by AdminNosy
    01-27-2008 2:44 AM


    Re: Less Nonsense more substance
    Even in the coffee house we expect you to stick to the topic at hand and not mess up the discussion.!
    Hmmm,I see.Disagreement is off topic.
    If you aren't able to post with more content than your posts so far you will start to be suspended.
    Yes, Ok,Creo's are stupid,Evo's are smart. There,can I stay now?


    "Some people spout bullshit just to hear their own heads rattle" Grampa Frame.
    This message is a reply to:
     Message 295 by AdminNosy, posted 01-27-2008 2:44 AM AdminNosy has not yet responded

    Hill Billy
    Member (Idle past 3464 days)
    Posts: 163
    From: The hills
    Joined: 01-26-2008


    Message 307 of 318 (451347)
    01-27-2008 11:41 AM
    Reply to: Message 301 by nator
    01-27-2008 8:36 AM


    Re: And now...my butt
    See, this is a great example of what I'm talking about.

    See how this writer misuses punctuation and has trouble remembering to put spaces after periods and commas?

    See how this reader has a superior attitude yet inferior comprehension skills.
    but I'm betting he doesn't have a degree in Biology if you know what I mean.
    I believe I've already stated that I didn't attend university. You are absolutely correct,no degree.What about you? Any degree's? Judging by your reading comprehension skills I'd guess,not so many. Very humorous.So busy bragging about your skills you forget to employ them.
    This message is a reply to:
     Message 301 by nator, posted 01-27-2008 8:36 AM nator has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 310 by nator, posted 01-27-2008 1:58 PM Hill Billy has responded

    Hill Billy
    Member (Idle past 3464 days)
    Posts: 163
    From: The hills
    Joined: 01-26-2008


    Message 308 of 318 (451348)
    01-27-2008 11:48 AM
    Reply to: Message 299 by pelican
    01-27-2008 3:54 AM


    Re: Less Nonsense more substance
    From post one, It sticks out like dog's balls and the ones displaying this behaviour cannot see it.
    Holy Crap! Someone here can read!
    This message is a reply to:
     Message 299 by pelican, posted 01-27-2008 3:54 AM pelican has not yet responded

    Trixie
    Member (Idle past 1816 days)
    Posts: 1011
    From: Edinburgh
    Joined: 01-03-2004


    Message 309 of 318 (451373)
    01-27-2008 1:49 PM


    Summation
    I made very few posts in this thread, but I felt they were pertinent. They have not been replied to. By definition, these points remain unrefuted.

    Additionally I feel a bit like a prophet. In message 155 I posted

    I've lost count of the number of times that certain posters have announced that evolution is "just a theory and not a Law." They do not know and will not accept that, in science, the word "theory" is used differently from the way it is used in non-scientific communication.

    In post 296 the following statement is made

    Are you saying that E=MC2 has actually been tried and tested? If it has it would not be a theory.

    No wonder claims are made that scientists can't communicate with non-scientists. The non-scientist here is totally ignoring inconvenient evidence. It's as if I never said anything. Sadly for his position, he has managed to demonstrate my point more effectively that I ever could.

    In attempting to show that the opening post was wrong, they have more than adequately demonstrated that the opening post is an accurate observation.


    nator
    Member (Idle past 280 days)
    Posts: 12961
    From: Ann Arbor
    Joined: 12-09-2001


    Message 310 of 318 (451375)
    01-27-2008 1:58 PM
    Reply to: Message 307 by Hill Billy
    01-27-2008 11:41 AM


    Re: And now...my butt
    quote:
    See how this reader has a superior attitude yet inferior comprehension skills.

    I had no problem comprehending that you misused punctuation and neglected to put spaces after your commas and periods.

    Still making those errors, I see.

    quote:
    You are absolutely correct,no degree.What about you? Any degree's?

    Yup. Bachelor's degree in Equestrian Studies, which is a science-heavy liberal arts degree.

    (By the way, the way to make a word such as "degree" plural is to simply add an "s"; "He earned two Math degrees". By adding an "apostrophy s", you have made the possesive form of "degree"; "The degree's frame was ornate." The latter is a clunky sentence, because "degrees" don't usually own anything, but I hope you see what I'm getting at)

    Writing well, and putting spaces between your sentences, and using spell check, are all ways to be courteous to your reader. I'm not talking about the occasional misspelled word or typo or run on sentence. We all do that. I'm talking about people who have serious deficincies in the rules of grammar that they should have learned in the fourth grade.

    In addition, if you can't be bothered to write better than a grade schooler, it certainly doesn't make your ideas appear particularly insightful or cogent.

    Edited by nator, : No reason given.

    Edited by nator, : No reason given.

    Edited by nator, : No reason given.


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 307 by Hill Billy, posted 01-27-2008 11:41 AM Hill Billy has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 311 by Hill Billy, posted 01-27-2008 2:50 PM nator has not yet responded

      
    Hill Billy
    Member (Idle past 3464 days)
    Posts: 163
    From: The hills
    Joined: 01-26-2008


    Message 311 of 318 (451388)
    01-27-2008 2:50 PM
    Reply to: Message 310 by nator
    01-27-2008 1:58 PM


    Re: And now...my butt
    I had no problem comprehending that you misused punctuation and neglected to put spaces after your commas and periods.
    Yes, we are all painfully aware of your ability to punctuate.However,I see that you are unable to grasp the point that your superior attitude is interfering with your ability to understand.Is this concept so complex? I mean,I understand it.
    Yup. Bachelor's degree in Equestrian Studies, which is a science-heavy liberal arts degree.
    I see,so you have a clear understanding of what it means to be a horses a....ah,never mind.
    Writing well, and putting spaces between your sentences, and using spell check, are all ways to be courteous to your reader.
    Yes,courtesy. Another subject that you claim to grasp,yet you seem completely unable to display.

    I'll try to keep it simple so even you can understand.

    You seem to believe that because you can use spell check you are an effective communicator.You seem to think that having more education makes you a better person.I suggest that either you hold these beliefs or you are an extremely poor writer.

    In addition, if you can't be bothered to write better than a grade schooler
    I'm stunned you think I write even that well! And thank you so much for the English lesson,I understand that you have difficulty understanding all but the most eloquently written material and I will put more effort in so you can keep up.

    Edited by Hill Billy, : hillybillys love editin


    "Some people spout bullshit just to hear their own heads rattle" Grampa Frame.
    This message is a reply to:
     Message 310 by nator, posted 01-27-2008 1:58 PM nator has not yet responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 314 by AdminNosy, posted 01-27-2008 3:26 PM Hill Billy has not yet responded

    Hill Billy
    Member (Idle past 3464 days)
    Posts: 163
    From: The hills
    Joined: 01-26-2008


    Message 312 of 318 (451389)
    01-27-2008 3:03 PM


    summation
    Punctuation,spelling, and grammar do not make effective communication.

    An interest in conveying your ideas and understanding others ideas does.

    The attitude that you already know everything makes learning unlikely.


    "Some people spout bullshit just to hear their own heads rattle" Grampa Frame.
    Replies to this message:
     Message 316 by pelican, posted 01-27-2008 9:39 PM Hill Billy has not yet responded

    Percy
    Member
    Posts: 18377
    From: New Hampshire
    Joined: 12-23-2000
    Member Rating: 4.9


    Message 313 of 318 (451391)
    01-27-2008 3:22 PM


    Summation
    Incoherent writing is a reflection of incoherent thinking, and a wise-guy attitude is no substitute for effective communication.

    --Percy


      
    AdminNosy
    Administrator
    Posts: 4754
    From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Joined: 11-11-2003


    Message 314 of 318 (451392)
    01-27-2008 3:26 PM
    Reply to: Message 311 by Hill Billy
    01-27-2008 2:50 PM


    24 hour Suspension for Hill Billy
    Since you continue to post without making any meaningful contributions it is easy to suspend you. It'll be a day this time.
    This message is a reply to:
     Message 311 by Hill Billy, posted 01-27-2008 2:50 PM Hill Billy has not yet responded

    pelican
    Member (Idle past 3095 days)
    Posts: 781
    From: australia
    Joined: 05-27-2007


    Message 315 of 318 (451489)
    01-27-2008 8:50 PM
    Reply to: Message 1 by nator
    12-28-2007 8:57 PM


    BIGGER BUMP FOR DAMEEVA
    I am posting this message to the originator of each thread in which I have participated. I apologize to those I have not been able to respond to. Living a double life (see below) even on a forum is very time consuming. I have had a wonderful experience and aplogize for my deceitful behaviour.

    RULE 9. Do not participate as more than one ID. You may change your user ID by going to your Profile Page and creating a new alias.
    I have been participating as two identities.

    In my defense, I created two identities because I felt I needed some moral support. I also thought it would help to promote some points that I could not do alone.

    In view of this obvious breaking of a clearly defined rule, there can be no excuses, no claims of innocence because the truth is:

    I did not read the rules.

    I prefer to judge myself and implement the consequences myself. I prefer to be my own judge and jury. In this case the punishment is a life time ban. I will retire DAMEEVA as from 1.2.08 (just to give myself time to pack my bags) unless a higher authority decides otherwise, in which case authority has the final say.

    I have thoroughly enjoyed this forum and have learned a lot that otherwise I would not. :)


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 1 by nator, posted 12-28-2007 8:57 PM nator has not yet responded

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