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Author Topic:   Why is Faith so Important to God?
Arachide
Junior Member (Idle past 4047 days)
Posts: 22
Joined: 12-21-2007


Message 76 of 88 (442734)
12-22-2007 1:57 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by The Agnostic
12-22-2007 12:09 PM


quote:
Religions that don't emphasize faith and conversion of others do not survive and go extinct much like animals go extinct.

That is exactly how it works i think. Christianity advocates a blindly trust. One may not be critical about god.
The best example of this is the story of the tower of Babel; people will be punished when they examine god.
This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 30936
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 77 of 88 (442739)
12-22-2007 2:37 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by Arachide
12-22-2007 1:57 PM


Learning how it works.
That is exactly how it works i think. Christianity advocates a blindly trust.

I don't doubt that is how you "think" it works, but that is likely just ignorance on your part.

If you wish to learn more, then this is a good place to start.


Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!
This message is a reply to:
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Arachide
Junior Member (Idle past 4047 days)
Posts: 22
Joined: 12-21-2007


Message 78 of 88 (442749)
12-22-2007 3:28 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by jar
12-22-2007 2:37 PM


Re: Learning how it works.
I added "i think" on purpose. Else i would present it as a fact, and i know it isn't.

With all respect, but it's not like i know little about the bible and christianity. I've been brought up with it, i've been to courses several years, i've talked a lot with people about it and i'm always trying to understand it and learn more. Of course that doesn't automatically mean rightness but it's not like i've read one sentence in the bible and come here to proclaim things.

I don't get why you would judge me ignorant and indicate that i need to learn more (till what, till i reached what you believe?) just because what i say doesn't stroke with your opinion apparently. Instead you could come up with real arguments and go about the contents.


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 Message 77 by jar, posted 12-22-2007 2:37 PM jar has responded

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 Message 79 by jar, posted 12-22-2007 3:42 PM Arachide has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30936
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 79 of 88 (442752)
12-22-2007 3:42 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by Arachide
12-22-2007 3:28 PM


Re: Learning how it works.
Well you made an unqualified statement, "Christianity advocates a blindly trust." which, while it might be true for some sects, is not true of Christianity as a whole, so it seemed a comment was certainly in order.

Instead you could come up with real arguments and go about the contents.

Actually, if you read the thread I think you will find I have commented on the topic beginning with Message 3.


Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!
This message is a reply to:
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The Agnostic
Member (Idle past 4043 days)
Posts: 36
From: Netherlands
Joined: 12-17-2007


Message 80 of 88 (442946)
12-23-2007 7:23 AM
Reply to: Message 79 by jar
12-22-2007 3:42 PM


Re: Learning how it works.
quote:
Actually, if you read the thread I think you will find I have commented on the topic beginning with Faith is not important to God (Message 3).

I don't think that quite answers the question. The question was: Why does God choose faith to judge people, rather than judging them on how good, kind or loving they are?


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 Message 79 by jar, posted 12-22-2007 3:42 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
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Arachide
Junior Member (Idle past 4047 days)
Posts: 22
Joined: 12-21-2007


Message 81 of 88 (442948)
12-23-2007 7:32 AM
Reply to: Message 79 by jar
12-22-2007 3:42 PM


Re: Learning how it works.
quote:
Well you made an unqualified statement, "Christianity advocates a blindly trust." which, while it might be true for some sects, is not true of Christianity as a whole, so it seemed a comment was certainly in order.
Christianity as a whole use the bible, that is pretty safe to say. There are many interpretations of it, and the way i see it is as i said.

quote:
Actually, if you read the thread I think you will find I have commented on the topic beginning with Faith is not important to God (Message 3).
With "go about the contents" i meant the contents of my post that you quoted since i felt you disagreed with it. But to discuss on that would probably go off-topic. There's not really a topic on that, is there? Perhaps we can have a great debate thread if you like.
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 Message 79 by jar, posted 12-22-2007 3:42 PM jar has responded

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jar
Member
Posts: 30936
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 82 of 88 (443002)
12-23-2007 12:34 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by The Agnostic
12-23-2007 7:23 AM


Re: Learning how it works.
I don't think that quite answers the question. The question was: Why does God choose faith to judge people, rather than judging them on how good, kind or loving they are?

Actually I have addressed that as well many times here at EvC. You will be judged on your behavior not on your faith. Faith is just for us, it is something we use. See Who can be saved? A Christian perspective for my position on that.


Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!
This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by The Agnostic, posted 12-23-2007 7:23 AM The Agnostic has responded

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jar
Member
Posts: 30936
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 83 of 88 (443005)
12-23-2007 12:42 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by Arachide
12-23-2007 7:32 AM


Re: Learning how it works.
I most certainly disagree that "Christianity advocates a blindly trust." I don't doubt that you see Christianity as "Christianity advocates a blindly trust" but that is simply wrong. Yes, to discuss that would likely be off topic but it is also something I have addressed many times at EvC.

As to the Bible, you have to remember that there is no such thing as "The Bible", rather there are many different Canons and so different lists of what should be in a Bible. I'm not talking of version, or translations, but rather the basic content that makes up "Bible". There is no such thing as "The Bible."


Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!
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The Agnostic
Member (Idle past 4043 days)
Posts: 36
From: Netherlands
Joined: 12-17-2007


Message 84 of 88 (443013)
12-23-2007 1:00 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by jar
12-23-2007 12:34 PM


Re: Learning how it works.
Actually I have addressed that as well many times here at EvC. You will be judged on your behavior not on your faith. Faith is just for us, it is something we use. See Thread Who can be saved? A Christian perspective for my position on that.

That thread answered my question. Thanks!


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iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4025 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 85 of 88 (446714)
01-07-2008 12:10 AM
Reply to: Message 73 by riVeRraT
12-03-2007 7:50 AM


Why would God require a Leap of Faith?
RR writes:

First off, faith is not easily defined.

The problem is that faith has several different meanings and nuances, which confuses this type of discussion (see iano's response for verification). Perhaps "belief" is a better word since it has a more concise meaning.

RR writes:

Yes, God does provide evidence. The bible, the world, the Holy Spirit is all evidence of God. But is it not proof. You cannot prove God, so you must "take a leap of faith" to believe He exists.

The bible is not evidence of God but evidence that humans tend to worship themselves, their culture and anthropomorphically envision God as some sort of royal warrior alpha male.

The bible repeatedly refers to "belief" as essential for salvation. Why would that be?

Why would God require and value "belief" and provide insufficient and conflicting evidence? The fact that the evidence is insufficient, incomplete and conflicting is easily demonstrated by the thousands of different religions, creeds and denominations.

Consider how many different laws of gravity are there? There is one. If God wanted us to know God and God's nature it would be similar to the law of gravity. No guess work required.

What is interesting, and this is my major point, is that meme-complexes, false theologies and cults require and demand "a leap or faith" based on beliefs without evidence. Why would the real God also require the same?

RR writes:

Once you take that leap, you must continue taking that leap, otherwise you are not really believing.

Again why would god require "believing". A leap of faith will land you further from God IMHO. Cults and false religions all require a "leap of faith".

RR I don't want to sound too critical here but I think this underlying implied premise is not very often considered or questioned.

Edited by iceage, : No reason given.


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jar
Member
Posts: 30936
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 86 of 88 (446812)
01-07-2008 9:52 AM
Reply to: Message 85 by iceage
01-07-2008 12:10 AM


Re: Why would God require a Leap of Faith?
GOD does not require a Leap of Faith.

Faith and Belief are not something GOD needs, they are things we need. We need to believe that we can accomplish things, have faith when we are striving with insufficient information that we can make the right decisions.

Faith and Belief are necessary tools for US, not something God requires.


Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!
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pelican
Member (Idle past 3096 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 87 of 88 (451502)
01-27-2008 9:14 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by iceage
10-29-2007 9:57 PM


BIGER BUMP FOR DAMEEVA
I am posting this message to the originator of each thread in which I have participated. I apologize to those I have not been able to respond to. Living a double life (see below) even on a forum is very time consuming. I have had a wonderful experience and aplogize for my deceitful behaviour.

RULE 9. Do not participate as more than one ID. You may change your user ID by going to your Profile Page and creating a new alias.
I have been participating as two identities.

In my defense, I created two identities because I felt I needed some moral support. I also thought it would help to promote some points that I could not do alone.

In view of this obvious breaking of a clearly defined rule, there can be no excuses, no claims of innocence because the truth is:

I did not read the rules.

I prefer to judge myself and implement the consequences myself. I prefer to be my own judge and jury. In this case the punishment is a life time ban. I will retire DAMEEVA as from 1.2.08 (just to give myself time to pack my bags) unless a higher authority decides otherwise, in which case authority has the final say.

I have thoroughly enjoyed this forum and have learned a lot that otherwise I would not. :)


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randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3009 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 88 of 88 (451543)
01-28-2008 12:20 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by iceage
10-29-2007 9:57 PM


here's one reason
Haven't read through the thread so forgive me if this has already been mentioned. Faith can be thought of as a perspective. God's faith is His perspective. There is more to faith, but let's stick with that for this discussion.

Unfortunately, sometimes people cannot understand, or fully understand, something without a change in perspective. What did Morpheus say about the Matrix? No one can explain it to you, you have to see for yourself. Coming to an understanding through faith can be like that. You can hear some words and know they are true, and even understand some things, but at some point, you have to move into the thing itself to grasp the perspective.

Maybe this can break it down a bit more. If you believe, and I certainly do, that the spiritual world is real and that God is real, it is still very difficult to grasp certain spiritual things without changing your perspective, and by that, I mean experiencing them. When a person believes something, their perspective changes. In the spiritual arena, believing at least for some things can be thought of as spiritual travel. You have a spirit, and you believe with your heart, which your spirit is part of. So believing something spiritually relevant puts you into a different perspective within the spiritual world. You literally move into that place and experience with the rest of your being including your mind follows.

So if you want to understand the things of God, you basically cannot do so without faith because they are of such a nature that you need to see it for yourself to a degree and you cannot do that without exercising your faith and moving into that arena.

Hope that helps.


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