Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
1 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 0/13 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Misconceptions of E=MC^2
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 31 of 243 (452085)
01-29-2008 1:52 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by pelican
01-29-2008 1:43 PM


Re: what is the rush
We're cross-posting...
Oh I think I do percieve the speed of light squared. I just cannot percieve any mass travelling at that speed, can you?
The speed of light would be an asymptote on a plot of a mass's velocity, as energy is related to it.
If/when mass reaches that speed, it becomes light.
Take your arms and point them outward at 90o angles to the direction you are facing. These represent the direction of momentum that you can have. At rest, you can go left, right, or straight ahead. As your velocity theoetically increases in the direction you are facing, we can represent this by slowly bringing your arms together in front of you to the direction you are facing. As you speed up, and as the angle of your arms gets less and less, your momentum in the left and right directions is less and less. At the point when both your arms are pointing in the direction you are facing, you have become light and your momentum can go nowhere but forward. You mass has tranformed into energy. The energy available from this trasformation is proportional to the amount of mass that was available (obviosly) and is also exponentially proportions to the veocity. This exponent is 2. Its proportional to the speed squared.
Does that help at all?
Edited by Catholic Scientist, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by pelican, posted 01-29-2008 1:43 PM pelican has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by Chiroptera, posted 01-29-2008 1:54 PM New Cat's Eye has replied
 Message 54 by pelican, posted 01-29-2008 8:59 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 32 of 243 (452087)
01-29-2008 1:53 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by pelican
01-29-2008 1:49 PM


Re: E=MC2 experiments
I am disputing some conceptions on this forum of what it actually is.
Whose conceptions are you disputing? What conceptions do you find problematic?

Spare a thought for the stay-at-home voter;
His empty eyes gaze at strange beauty shows
And a parade of the gray suited grafters:
A choice of cancer or polio. -- The Rolling Stones

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by pelican, posted 01-29-2008 1:49 PM pelican has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by pelican, posted 01-29-2008 9:11 PM Chiroptera has replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 33 of 243 (452088)
01-29-2008 1:54 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by New Cat's Eye
01-29-2008 1:52 PM


Re: what is the rush
We're cross-posting....
Usually a sign that at least one participant should log off and wait a while before posting again.

Spare a thought for the stay-at-home voter;
His empty eyes gaze at strange beauty shows
And a parade of the gray suited grafters:
A choice of cancer or polio. -- The Rolling Stones

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-29-2008 1:52 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-29-2008 1:59 PM Chiroptera has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 34 of 243 (452089)
01-29-2008 1:55 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by pelican
01-29-2008 1:49 PM


Re: E=MC2 experiments
Ahh, more cross-posting.
Thanks but I gathered that. It caused some confusion. that's all.
Oh well, then, did you at least think the joke was funny?
I am not disputing the authenticity of E=MC2. I am disputing some conceptions on this forum of what it actually is.
What conceptions are those? Do you think my conception is erroneous?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by pelican, posted 01-29-2008 1:49 PM pelican has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by Chiroptera, posted 01-29-2008 2:01 PM New Cat's Eye has replied
 Message 64 by pelican, posted 01-29-2008 11:18 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
pelican
Member (Idle past 4986 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 35 of 243 (452094)
01-29-2008 1:59 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Modulous
01-29-2008 1:43 PM


Re: plain english please
If you mean, has the equation been experimentally confirmed, as in, does the equation correlate with reality as tested? Yes. I have given you an example of an experiment that does this directly.
E=MC2 means a piece of matter travels at he speed of light squared and changes form to become energy.
I do not think this equasion correlates with reality as tested at all.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Modulous, posted 01-29-2008 1:43 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by Chiroptera, posted 01-29-2008 2:05 PM pelican has replied
 Message 40 by cavediver, posted 01-29-2008 2:05 PM pelican has replied
 Message 43 by Modulous, posted 01-29-2008 2:17 PM pelican has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 36 of 243 (452095)
01-29-2008 1:59 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by Chiroptera
01-29-2008 1:54 PM


Re: what is the rush
Usually a sign that at least one participant should log off and wait a while before posting again.
Never!!
Actually, not a bad idea. I'll go smoke a cigarette....

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Chiroptera, posted 01-29-2008 1:54 PM Chiroptera has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by Chiroptera, posted 01-29-2008 2:06 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 37 of 243 (452097)
01-29-2008 2:01 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by New Cat's Eye
01-29-2008 1:55 PM


Re: E=MC2 experiments
Do you think my conception is erroneous?
Well, this part is erroneous:
If/when mass reaches that speed, it becomes light.
Mass (if you mean particles with non-zero rest mass) doesn't become light because it travels at any particular speed.
Nothing with a non-zero rest mass can travel the speed of light. Period. It would take an infinite amount of energy to get a particle to this speed.

Spare a thought for the stay-at-home voter;
His empty eyes gaze at strange beauty shows
And a parade of the gray suited grafters:
A choice of cancer or polio. -- The Rolling Stones

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-29-2008 1:55 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-29-2008 2:26 PM Chiroptera has replied

  
cavediver
Member (Idle past 3643 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 38 of 243 (452098)
01-29-2008 2:02 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by pelican
01-29-2008 1:43 PM


Re: what is the rush
Oh I think I do percieve the speed of light squared. I just cannot percieve any mass travelling at that speed, can you?
E=mc^2 has nothing to do with a mass travelling at the speed of light. Here, c is just a number, and c^2 forms the constant of proportionality between E and m. This number is also the speed of light, but that is (mostly) irrelevant to the equation.
It is tested true every second of every day at every nuclear reactor in the world. None of the billion $ particle accelerators in the world would work at all if this equation was not true.
There are very few equations in science that are better tested than this one...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by pelican, posted 01-29-2008 1:43 PM pelican has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by pelican, posted 01-29-2008 11:30 PM cavediver has not replied
 Message 228 by pelican, posted 02-05-2008 9:08 PM cavediver has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 39 of 243 (452101)
01-29-2008 2:05 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by pelican
01-29-2008 1:59 PM


Re: plain english please
E=MC2 means a piece of matter travels at he speed of light squared and changes form to become energy.
No, this is not what the equation means.
What the equation means is that when energy is converted to matter with mass, then the amount of mass is equal to the amount of energy times the square of the speed of light. Or, when mass is converted to energy, the amount of energy is equal to the amount of mass divided by the square of the speed of light.
Are you Duane Ertle?

Spare a thought for the stay-at-home voter;
His empty eyes gaze at strange beauty shows
And a parade of the gray suited grafters:
A choice of cancer or polio. -- The Rolling Stones

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by pelican, posted 01-29-2008 1:59 PM pelican has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by humoshi, posted 01-29-2008 2:54 PM Chiroptera has replied
 Message 68 by pelican, posted 01-30-2008 12:02 AM Chiroptera has not replied

  
cavediver
Member (Idle past 3643 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 40 of 243 (452102)
01-29-2008 2:05 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by pelican
01-29-2008 1:59 PM


Re: plain english please
E=MC2 means a piece of matter travels at he speed of light squared and changes form to become energy.
No, it most certainly does not.
Glad to clear up the misconception.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by pelican, posted 01-29-2008 1:59 PM pelican has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by pelican, posted 01-29-2008 11:22 PM cavediver has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 41 of 243 (452103)
01-29-2008 2:06 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by New Cat's Eye
01-29-2008 1:59 PM


Re: what is the rush
I'll go smoke a cigarette....
Do it in front of nator's apartment.

Spare a thought for the stay-at-home voter;
His empty eyes gaze at strange beauty shows
And a parade of the gray suited grafters:
A choice of cancer or polio. -- The Rolling Stones

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-29-2008 1:59 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 42 of 243 (452104)
01-29-2008 2:08 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by pelican
01-29-2008 1:36 PM


Re: E=MC2 experiments
'Brazillion' was the offending word.
Yes it was funny. I continued with a dose of dry humour by lamenting that the experiment wasn't performed in Brazil.
In fact this shows that some believe there have been many experiments based on reproducing E=Mc2
As stated: experiments have confirmed that the equation accurately describes many parts of the universe. I have no idea what reproducing E=mc2 means, and based on my knowledge of the word, I do not think it has been reproduced.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by pelican, posted 01-29-2008 1:36 PM pelican has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by pelican, posted 01-30-2008 12:21 AM Modulous has replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 43 of 243 (452106)
01-29-2008 2:17 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by pelican
01-29-2008 1:59 PM


Re: plain english please
E=MC2 means a piece of matter travels at he speed of light squared and changes form to become energy.
No, it means that energy is proportional the mass of the object in question. It just describes the relation of matter to energy. It doesn't say that matter changes form. Actually when you look at the equations as a whole, we find that as we approach the speed of light, the mass of an object approaches an infinite magnitude. Quite the opposite of your understanding.
Where no work is being done, the energy of x is equal to the product of the mass of x and c2

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by pelican, posted 01-29-2008 1:59 PM pelican has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by pelican, posted 01-30-2008 5:42 AM Modulous has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 44 of 243 (452108)
01-29-2008 2:26 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Chiroptera
01-29-2008 2:01 PM


Re: E=MC2 experiments
Nothing with a non-zero rest mass can travel the speed of light. Period. It would take an infinite amount of energy to get a particle to this speed.
Hrm. I thought that, theoretically, if (the big IF) mass did travel at that speed, then it would be light. I.e. it would become light.
If I'm wrong then its prolly because of a misunderstanding of some analogy somewhere.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Chiroptera, posted 01-29-2008 2:01 PM Chiroptera has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by Chiroptera, posted 01-29-2008 2:34 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied
 Message 46 by cavediver, posted 01-29-2008 2:36 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied
 Message 63 by pelican, posted 01-29-2008 11:06 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 45 of 243 (452111)
01-29-2008 2:34 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by New Cat's Eye
01-29-2008 2:26 PM


Re: E=MC2 experiments
if (the big IF) mass did travel at that speed
The problem is that the equations don't work at all. You end up dividing by zero, which is nonsense -- the equations are useless. The current understanding is that this is simply impossible -- mass cannot travel at the speed of light at all.
Now, of course, it is always possible that our current models are wrong (or not precise enough to handle speeds close enough to that of light), but there aren't any models of which I'm aware that discusses what would happen when a mass travels at the speed of light -- I think that the "mass turns into light" business is something that someone made up somewhere in an attempt to understand the subject.

Spare a thought for the stay-at-home voter;
His empty eyes gaze at strange beauty shows
And a parade of the gray suited grafters:
A choice of cancer or polio. -- The Rolling Stones

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-29-2008 2:26 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024