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Author Topic:   The Significance of the Dover Decision
bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2504 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 105 of 150 (452472)
01-30-2008 1:18 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by randman
01-30-2008 12:32 AM


Re: a general reply
randman writes:
why I think ID will eventually be taught in schools and the law overturned...
1. Any scientific theory that must rely on the law to maintain it's dominance is on very weak ground. We saw that with the Scopes trial and creationism and now we are seeing it with evolutionism. The very fact evos used the law at Dover to seek to silence their critics is a death-knell in the long run, imo.
As others have pointed out, the parents brought lawsuit, not scientists.
But one thing hasn't been pointed out. Of all the advanced scientific countries, there's only one that has huge swathes of
creationists type bible punchers, and it's no coincidence that that is the one which has an evolution/I.D. education related trial.
It's all about religion, Randman. Less religiosity in a country will mean less I.D. support, and the most religious country in the west is where the modern movement comes from. The decision at the trial was that I.D. is a religious movement, and you can easily find quotes from its theologians like William Dembski to back that up.
Religions characteristically rely on the indoctrination of children to perpetuate themselves, which is why I.D. aims at the classrooms, and claims, like other forms of creationism, that the evidence based science taught at present is indoctrination. But religion, when it takes on real science done with scientific method will always lose in the long run, and always has.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by randman, posted 01-30-2008 12:32 AM randman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by randman, posted 01-30-2008 2:31 PM bluegenes has replied

  
bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2504 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 117 of 150 (452531)
01-30-2008 4:31 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by randman
01-30-2008 2:34 PM


Re: ID research as it relates to Dover
randman writes:
Maybe on a different thread someone can show me the seminal papers establishing Darwinism.....do evos do any research and publication or have they ever on the basic claims and assumption of Darwinism?
Try searching "natural selection" on Google Scholar, and we'll see you in about ten years when you've finished reading all the peer reviewed papers concerning it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by randman, posted 01-30-2008 2:34 PM randman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 123 by randman, posted 01-30-2008 7:21 PM bluegenes has not replied

  
bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2504 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 119 of 150 (452546)
01-30-2008 5:01 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by randman
01-30-2008 2:31 PM


Re: a general reply
randman writes:
bluegenes writes:
Religions characteristically rely on the indoctrination of children to perpetuate themselves, which is why I.D. aims at the classrooms, and claims, like other forms of creationism, that the evidence based science taught at present is indoctrination.
The irony of this comment is rich considering it is evolution that is taught via indoctrination and ID that looks at the totality of the data and arguments.
It's an evidence based comment. It explains why most of the children growing up in India consider themselves Hindus, and most in the U.S. Christians. Different non-evidence based cultural indoctrinations.
What extra data does I.D. look at? Invisible supernatural beings who do genetic modification? They must have damned good telescopes and microscopes at the Discovery Institute.
I'm aware that this is drifting off topic, and would be happy to discuss indoctrination elsewhere. The point arose because a Christian judge at the Dover trial came to the conclusion that I.D. is a religious movement.
No valuable new scientific ideas of the past were taught to children before the experts in the field were convinced, and their advocates never tried to put them in schools, but rather, to convince their fellow scientists with that dirty word for creationists, evidence.
Faith isn't evidence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by randman, posted 01-30-2008 2:31 PM randman has not replied

  
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