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Author Topic:   The Tesla Challenge
Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2462
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 31 of 54 (452719)
01-31-2008 7:17 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by tesla
01-30-2008 6:00 PM


Re: The greatest force of all
tesla writes:
ah. thanks for the correction the force that holds atoms together is the force I'm referring. i guess that would be the "strong" force?
OK, glad we cleared that up. Now let's examine your theory. In Message 17 you write;
tesla writes:
my theory concerning the G-force strong nuclear force and gravity, is that the collective sharing of the g-force strong nuclear force in atoms resonate together. so that matter composed of more atoms, have more shared g-force strong nuclear force, which resonate as a greater gravity. which is why the attraction is not by size, but by density.
As you can see, I have corrected the quote to reflect your intent.
I am afraid that your theory is in error. The strong nuclear force does not "resonate as a greater gravity". It has nothing to do with gravity. Gravity is so weak at the very tiny scales at which the strong force operates, that it is completely negligible. Denser objects (objects with more mass) have more gravity simply due to their higher mass, there is no need for recourse to the strong force in order to explain this.
I have no idea what you are trying to prove here, but physics is not an area of study where a keen amateur can make important discoveries just by sitting and pondering about it. If you want to pursue your theory, I suggest that you start by enrolling on a college physics course.

Mutate and Survive

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by tesla, posted 01-30-2008 6:00 PM tesla has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by tesla, posted 01-31-2008 7:44 AM Granny Magda has replied

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 1593 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 32 of 54 (452727)
01-31-2008 7:44 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by Granny Magda
01-31-2008 7:17 AM


Re: The greatest force of all
The strong nuclear force does not "resonate as a greater gravity". It has nothing to do with gravity. Gravity is so weak at the very tiny scales at which the strong force operates, that it is completely negligible.
I've never discussed the theory with another before. this might be cool.
ok, lets observe force. if i strike an object, the object has a reaction equal to the action, but the force, as it travels through another item slowly weakens until its gone. unless the force is maintained (continuous striking)
so my theory of the strong force is that it IS extremely powerful continuous striking that resonates through matter and comes out in a weaker form known as gravity.
Edited by tesla, : No reason given.

keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Granny Magda, posted 01-31-2008 7:17 AM Granny Magda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by Granny Magda, posted 01-31-2008 7:53 AM tesla has not replied
 Message 35 by LucyTheApe, posted 01-31-2008 8:00 AM tesla has replied

  
LucyTheApe
Inactive Member


Message 33 of 54 (452728)
01-31-2008 7:46 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by teen4christ
01-22-2008 2:17 PM


Re: The greatest force of all
quote:
LucyTheApe writes
quote:Gravity just seems to be the most powerful force, because it governs our everyday lives.
  —teen4christ
No I didn't.
quote:
....Now, don't mistake jargon for the real thing.
  —teen4Christ
teen, you've misread what I wrote. It was meant as advice. I never questioned sidelined's understanding.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by teen4christ, posted 01-22-2008 2:17 PM teen4christ has not replied

  
Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2462
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 34 of 54 (452729)
01-31-2008 7:53 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by tesla
01-31-2008 7:44 AM


Re: The greatest force of all
tesla writes:
so my theory of the strong force is that it IS extremely powerful continuous striking that resonates through matter and comes out in a weaker form known as gravity.
Uh-huh. So your evidence for this is...

Mutate and Survive

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by tesla, posted 01-31-2008 7:44 AM tesla has not replied

  
LucyTheApe
Inactive Member


Message 35 of 54 (452730)
01-31-2008 8:00 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by tesla
01-31-2008 7:44 AM


Re: The greatest force of all
tesla writes:
so my theory of the strong force is that it IS extremely powerful continuous striking that resonates through matter and comes out in a weaker form known as gravity.
But tesla, the strong force is one of the 4 fundamental forces of nature and is responsible for the theoretic particles 'gluons' that bind the subatomic particles together. Gravity on the otherhand is a force related to mass.
I don't understand what you mean by 'resonates through', resonance makes something vibrate at its natural frequency, which is another phenomenon altogether.
If you have found a unifying theory combining these three phenomena please let us in on it.
Edited by LucyTheApe, : singular

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by tesla, posted 01-31-2008 7:44 AM tesla has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by tesla, posted 01-31-2008 8:09 AM LucyTheApe has replied

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 1593 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 36 of 54 (452731)
01-31-2008 8:09 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by LucyTheApe
01-31-2008 8:00 AM


Re: The greatest force of all
its my theory, which means it should be scrutinized.
ok, lets look again at force.
an outward force is subject to the law i just mentioned, that through other matter it resonates. like sound traveling, so also does kinetic force travel.
subatomic particles are still matter.
if the rule applies to an outward force, so also should it apply to an inward force.
explosion forces matter out, but attraction forces matter in.
the greatest attractive force that is maintained would then resonate through matter but weaken as the more matter it travels through. but the more strikes, the greater the force.

keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by LucyTheApe, posted 01-31-2008 8:00 AM LucyTheApe has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by LucyTheApe, posted 01-31-2008 8:22 AM tesla has replied

  
LucyTheApe
Inactive Member


Message 37 of 54 (452732)
01-31-2008 8:22 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by tesla
01-31-2008 8:09 AM


Re: The greatest force of all
tesla writes:
so my theory of the strong force is that it IS extremely powerful continuous striking that resonates through matter and comes out in a weaker form known as gravity.
Haaaang on tesla, before you go on, explain what you mean by the above, specifically in relation to resonance.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by tesla, posted 01-31-2008 8:09 AM tesla has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by tesla, posted 01-31-2008 8:28 AM LucyTheApe has replied
 Message 40 by tesla, posted 01-31-2008 8:56 AM LucyTheApe has not replied

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 1593 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 38 of 54 (452733)
01-31-2008 8:28 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by LucyTheApe
01-31-2008 8:22 AM


Re: The greatest force of all
matter reacts to forces.
outward forces are easy to rationalize. but no one has really been able to rationalize inward forces.
resonate i use to describe how a force travels through matter.
if outward and kinetic forces travel through matter, then so also do inward and attractive forces.
like magnetism, which is an inward force, but only specific to certain types of matter, travel through matter by alignment, and by aligning poles the attraction will align the poles of other matter next to it that has properties that can be aligned.
this also works with the inward force of the strong force, and gravity, but in all matter, align able, or not.
its a hard concept to explain, since I've never seen much research relative to the collective sharing of inward forces. especially one that is attracted to all matter.

keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by LucyTheApe, posted 01-31-2008 8:22 AM LucyTheApe has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by Larni, posted 01-31-2008 8:56 AM tesla has not replied
 Message 43 by LucyTheApe, posted 01-31-2008 9:17 AM tesla has replied

  
Larni
Member (Idle past 164 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 39 of 54 (452735)
01-31-2008 8:44 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by teen4christ
01-30-2008 8:11 PM


Re: take your own advice
Dude, take a look at this.
I know it's a bit long but if you read it and attend to some of the points you are trying to counter you may save yourself the bother (pay particular attention to the part where he inserts a god into the picture seemingly at random.
Tesla has been debated with before and has no intention of altering his stance.
tesla writes:
tesla writes:
i say: nothing outside energy is real.
you say: prove it.
Larni writes:
No I don't! I say (again) that all you are saying is that only real thing are real. Very good. We can all agree real things are real.
tesla writes:
tesla writes:
i say: if it isn't energy, it isn't real. it will never be measured. it will never be found, it will never exist. because it would not be real.
you say: what about ghosts? thoughts? space?
Larni writes:
NO I DON'T.
I say that (again) we agree that only real things are real. I don't believe in ghosts or fairies or gods or any of that bullshit.
tesla writes:
tesla writes:
i say: ghosts: IF there "real" can only exist in a form of energy, even if you cant measure it with current technology, because if not energy, it isn't real. thoughts: they exist in your mind which is a part of your body, which is a ton of different energy transfers, chemically, and small electric pulses and perhaps other unmeasurable energies. space: 1 cubic liter of space would boil the earths oceans i believe one poster said. (radiation, fields, and light are some measurable energies in space)
you say: none of that makes sense.
Larni writes:
No. I. Don't. I don't believe in ghost and all that crap (as I mentioned). If by space you are talking about vacuum enegy density then you are on very shaky ground with you boiling off oceans idea.
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/vacuum.html
tesla writes:
tesla writes:
i say: how doesn't it?
reality i say, is only what is real. and if it can never be measured, it wouldn't exist. and since we do exist, energy was first that made it possible. and its too perf4ect, too complex and ordered to have just "appeared" out of nothing. so something was the first "genesis" energy.
Larni writes:
This is where you start down the logical fallacy called arguement from incredularity. It seems 'too perfect, too complex etc'. The flaw in your arguement is that it is only your opinion of 'too perfect, too complex etc'. One cannot base conclusions on not being able to imagine something being true.
tesla writes:
tesla writes:
so what would we call the genesis energy? well...existence. since that was has to be before anything else.
and so i applied the genesis energy to scientific enquiry and found the "law of existence".
Larni writes:
You continue to dig a hole for yourself. The energy in the nacent universe has no obvious connection to genesis outside of theology. We are in a science forum, not a religious one.
tesla writes:
tesla writes:
the only debate that has been brought to me is : well you didn't measure it, so its not there.
Larni writes:
Not so. You have made fallacious logical errors in your thinking to get from things having to be real to energy having to be real to energy having to be first to this energy being 'genesis energy'. No mention of measuring.
tesla writes:
tesla writes:
i say: I'm here. the galaxy is there. so it was there. or nothing would be.
Larni writes:
Again you simply state that things have to be real to exist. WE KNOW!
tesla writes:
tesla writes:
that's as simple as i can explain it. you can choose to ignore the truth of it, but all your tentative science is a big "maybe" and this law that "i am, so the earth was, so the galaxy was before that, and so the greater energy that was first was there, is sound. perfect. and indisputable.
Larni writes:
Again all you state is that you are real, the earth is real the galaxy real and was once in a highly energetic state right after the big bang. THIS IS OBVIOUS TO ANY ONE!
tesla writes:
tesla writes:
that's why you cant change my mind, and never will. because its true. and you can only come to terms with the truth of it if you actually try to debate the soundness of it, instead of looking for reasons to say it isn't sound.
Larni writes:
No one here is argueing that what is real is real.
tesla writes:
tesla writes:
the law really is easy to defend. because all true science is supported by it. relativity, because of it all coming from the same start is sound. and point of view of the individual becomes clearer when its understood.
Larni writes:
No one here is argueing that what is real is real.
tesla writes:
tesla writes:
its the difference between looking at your life through a window, to looking at your life as whats staring you in the face.
Larni writes:
No one here is argueing that what is real is real.
tesla writes:
tesla writes:
I'm not saying you'll agree with me. who out there who doesn't want to accept any religion, would be willing to accept science that proved that nothing could be at all without God?
tesla writes:
tesla writes:
so if that's your motivation, all the science in the world wont change your mind.
Larni writes:
The thing is tesla, that all you have managed to say is that energy is real and always was so your god is real. That does not follow. I may as well say that energy is real and always was so Enki is real, or Odin or Zeus. You being correct about energy being real does not make your god or the 'creation model' that you have failed to provide in 190 post real.
tesla writes:
tesla writes:
I'm hoping for a scientist who wishes to know the truth MORE than his/her willingness to not change there points of view.
Larni writes:
To do this you need to use the tools of science and you have fallen far short of the mark.
tesla writes:
tesla writes:
so then if such a scientist is out there, try to defend this law in the debate against another, and see how easy it is.
Larni writes:
But tesla, you have not defended it. You have said energy is real therefor god is real.
Like the wookie defence; IT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by teen4christ, posted 01-30-2008 8:11 PM teen4christ has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by tesla, posted 01-31-2008 9:02 AM Larni has not replied
 Message 49 by teen4christ, posted 01-31-2008 1:39 PM Larni has not replied

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 1593 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 40 of 54 (452737)
01-31-2008 8:56 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by LucyTheApe
01-31-2008 8:22 AM


Re: The greatest force of all
something is itching in my brain about your name.
i keep having this thought:
in evolution, it is proposed that man has come form apes, but why hasn't it been observed at the possibility that man is not an evolutionized ape, but apes a devolution of man?
its off topic tho. food for thought i guess.

keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by LucyTheApe, posted 01-31-2008 8:22 AM LucyTheApe has not replied

  
Larni
Member (Idle past 164 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 41 of 54 (452738)
01-31-2008 8:56 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by tesla
01-31-2008 8:28 AM


Re: The greatest force of all
None of your post makes the slightest bit of sense. Who taught you this crap?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by tesla, posted 01-31-2008 8:28 AM tesla has not replied

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 1593 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 42 of 54 (452740)
01-31-2008 9:02 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by Larni
01-31-2008 8:44 AM


Re: take your own advice
ok larni, all I'm trying to point out is the T=0 part, that energy has evolved and if you follow it back its one source. and to understand what i have said, you have to apply what a "singularity" is and is not by the laws of science and logic so we know what to look for.
all roads lead to Rome. i really don't want to hash this out anymore since i have come to my conclusion.
before any energy is found, all the laws of science and logic of true science (laws) must be applied to it before we know what to look for to find it physically.

keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Larni, posted 01-31-2008 8:44 AM Larni has not replied

  
LucyTheApe
Inactive Member


Message 43 of 54 (452744)
01-31-2008 9:17 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by tesla
01-31-2008 8:28 AM


Re: The greatest force of all
quote:
outward forces are easy to rationalize. but no one has really been able to rationalize inward forces.
  —tesla
A force is a vector and has direction. By inward force do you mean, forces like gravity? In other words forces that gain potential when the distance increases.
quote:
if outward and kinetic forces travel through matter, then so also do inward and attractive forces.
  —tesla
Kinetic force? Do you mean kinetic energy which is the velocity gained by a mass due to its loss of potential or the effect of other forces.
quote:
resonate i use to describe how a force travels through matter.
  —tesla
Maybe use the word vibrate, that makes more sense, at least to me. Resonate has a very specific meaning in physics.
quote:
like magnetism, which is an inward force, but only specific to certain types of matter, travel through matter by alignment, and by aligning poles the attraction will align the poles of other matter next to it that has properties that can be aligned.
  —tesla
Magnetism and electricity are a combined and united force called electromagnetism. Some material maintain magnetic fields due to their electron or electric situation.
quote:
its a hard concept to explain, since I've never seen much research relative to the collective sharing of inward forces. especially one that is attracted to all matter.
  —tesla
Well think and explain hard tesla, I'm interested in your theory.
Edited by LucyTheApe, : clarity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by tesla, posted 01-31-2008 8:28 AM tesla has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by tesla, posted 01-31-2008 9:28 AM LucyTheApe has replied

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 1593 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 44 of 54 (452747)
01-31-2008 9:28 AM
Reply to: Message 43 by LucyTheApe
01-31-2008 9:17 AM


Re: The greatest force of all
Well think and explain hard tesla, I'm interested in your theory.
!

keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by LucyTheApe, posted 01-31-2008 9:17 AM LucyTheApe has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by LucyTheApe, posted 01-31-2008 10:30 AM tesla has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 45 of 54 (452762)
01-31-2008 10:09 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by tesla
01-30-2008 7:30 PM


Re: take your own advice
i am willing with proof. no one has proven the laws wrong. and all my observation's say there correct.
But your position hasn't budged after multiple people show you its wrong. Your threshold for "proof" is too high. You should take your own advice:
quote:
the man, who walks with eyes open for truth , and willingness to learn, is far smarter.
Because you are wrong, its just that you don't want to admit it. You have no willingness to learn and your eyes are closed.
Oh, and one more thing...
and all my observation's say there correct
I'm calling bullshit on this. You don't have any "observations".
You should say that all your thoughts say they're correct.
And it'd be nice if you informed people that you have no intention of changing your thoughts so they don't waste their time on you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by tesla, posted 01-30-2008 7:30 PM tesla has not replied

  
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