Before Big Bang God or Singularity

Yes it would... wow, I forgot that North is straight-up oh dear, it is too late for this level of humour stimulation.

Oh for crying out loud! It's an analogy, ICANT!And aside from that, the rocket would be heading "up." Not North. The North Star is called the North Star because it happens to be aligned with our North pole, but the star itself doesn't designate the direction.

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When you know you're going to wake up in three days, dying is not a sacrifice. It's a painful inconvenience.

Hi cavediver, Why not just say just because.Now lets examine that.It can't be in the future. No definately not.If it is in the present being the moment of T=0+There is no way the singularity could spawn the universe unless it did it out of the absence of anything.Because there had been no condition to be able to cause the singularity to come into being.There was no space=time.
There was no gravity.
There was no black holes.I got 2 choices.It spawned from an absence of anything.
It spawned from something that was in existence before T=0.I choose the latter it make's more sense.Have fun,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Rahvin, OK I still been thinking.How about if a rocket took off from Cape Kenedy heading north flying at about 20,000 feet When it reached the North Pole still heading North out into space where would it be heading?I know one thing it would leave a lot of busted glass in its path.Just a thought.

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi cavediver, I thought you would get a kick out of that I actually got that from Hawking's imaginary time.Have fun,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi cavediver I missed this one. How could we exist? There would be no universe. You said "singularity cause by the positive curvature of the space-time."You said there was no space-time before Big Bang = T=0+.No spacetime = no positive curvature of the space-time = no singularity = no Big Bang.So if you are correct in what you said we can't be here.Unless you got a better explanation.I got one but you won't accept it.Have fun,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

I'm sorry, but I'm kinda stuck here. Is this true?As I said, I wanna understand.

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" When hunting the obtuse subtlety makes excellent bait." Jimmy V.

You still thinking of things like this:Nothing.........spacetime....positive curvature...singularity...big bangThis is wrong.Spacetime is a four dimensional entity. At some coordinates in that entity there exists postitive curvature of spacetime. One such coordinate is at T=0.

Hi Hill Billy, You having a hard time. Man I just walked out into the yard and looked up there is so much stuff up there. I came back in and set down and started trying to figure out how you could get Jupiter which is 9 times the size of the earth into something as small as a point. Then what would I do with all that other stuff? But to answer your question yes. See I told you it was smaller but is now larger. I Know I got it from a reliable source.

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Mod, Are you saying there was space-time and at some coordiance in that spacetime is where the postitive curvature of space-time created the singularity that spawned the universe?Very interesting,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

No, I'm saying the big bang is not about spawning the universe. The big bang is just part of the universe just like any other part of the universe we might give a name. The universe doesn't 'come into existence' at the big bang. The universe exists - past, present and future as one four dimensional entity.

Really? I wish I'd known you were such an expert on space-time physics. Why can it not be in the future?BTW, it is 'definitely' - think of it as de-finite, you won't go wrong again...Edited by cavediver, : No reason given.Edited by cavediver, : No reason given.

No I did not You should read what I said...I said that I was NOT saying that "there was space-time before the Big Bang"It simply makes no sense. There is no 'before' so it impossible to talk about it.Of course there is space-time. The singularity is surrounded by it. The singularity is a feature of that space-time, and arises because of the nature of that space-time. Simple...

ICANT, time is part of space-time. Speaking about "before" space-time is like taking this ray:*------------------------------>and asking "what point is farther to the left of the start of the ray?"It doesn't make sense - there are no points on the line farther to the left of the start of the ray."Before" is defined as "earlier in time than x." You're trying to ask "what is earlier in time than time?" That question doesn't make sense.If you stand exactly on magnetic North and pull out a compass, how do you go further North? The question doesn't make sense.If you ask "which is higher up, Mars or Venus?" the question doesn't make sense - "up" from the perspective of Earth doesn't make sense after you get a relatively short distance from the ground.Any of this helping? The questions you're asking and the things you say when you think you understand are like asking "what's wider than width?"

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When you know you're going to wake up in three days, dying is not a sacrifice. It's a painful inconvenience.

Hi Mod, Then at the Big Bang. Time, space, and all matter did not come into existence. Like the Andromeda Galaxy, Sunflower Galaxy, or our milky way galaxy.Then what was the function of the Big Bang? OK. When did it come into existence if it is only 13 billion to 20 billion years old? This is supposed to be my line.I believe Genesis 1:1. In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Since God had no beginning the universe had to always be here in some form. I have so stated many times on this forum.Have fun now,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."