Biblical Creationism Requires Evolution

Ichthus writes

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Second, when has a mutation ever been beneficial to an organism.

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Anti-biotic resistant strains.

Ichthus writes

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Yes, but the genes didn't change to form that resistance.

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Just so you didn't notice, my eyes just rolled after reading your replies.Consider the following experiment that you yourself could perform anyday anytime. Start out with a single bacterium and allow it to procreate into a colony in a petri dish. Since bacteria reproduce by mitosis, all the daughter cells are suppose to be identical to the bacterium that you started out with. You then apply antibiotics. What you will inevitably see is that there will be a few individuals who will survive this bacterial holocaust.Somewhere along the line, a mutation occured that allowed some bacteria to survive.Have you done lab work in this field? Have you written articles and published them for all to see proving that no beneficial mutation is possible? Have you performed experiments that have irrefutably proven that no beneficial mutation can ever occur?Believing in Christ is one thing. But to speak on his behalf words of ignorance or even downright lies... I'm not sure there's a word to describe it. I'm sure God would want us to educate ourselves first before speaking on His behalf and make all believers look like idiots. As the old saying goes, know your enemy first before confronting him on the battlefield. Specifically, know what weapons he will use. It's kinda pointless to show up on the battlefield with a sword and then find out your enemy has a machine gun.

tesla writes

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evidence does show less intelligent forms of modern man with "apparently" stone tools well before the "modern" ape.

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How do you explain the differences in the number of chromosomes between man and ape? Specifically, if ape descended from man, how come human chromosome 2 has 2 centromeres and 4 telomeres?If either of the two groups descended from the other, from the chromosome evidence wouldn't it make more sense that it was man who descended from apes?

tesla writes

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evolution is adaption. adaption can go both up or down as far as intelligence goes, by choice of habits.

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The issue I'm pointing out is the number of chromosomes in apes versus humans. Not just the number, but also the apparent fusion of 2 chromosomes to form the human chromosome #2 we have today. Please don't try to change the subject.

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do you know the chromosomes of "lucy"?

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Nobody does. Again, I am talking about modern apes versus humans.Humans, compared to modern apes, have 1 less chromosome pair. Instead, we have chromosome #2 that has 2 centromeres and 4 telomeres. A regular chromosome has 2 telomeres, 1 at each end, and a centromere in the middle. Based on this, wouldn't it make more sense that, if one has to have descended from the other as you implied, humans descended from apes rather than vice versa?

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also remember, there is no definitive link yet found to make anything about the relation of ape and man being a definite ascension of the same tree.

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For now, I'm not talking about any other evidence of definitive link. My current goal is to try to get you to recognize the chromosomal implication and how it contradicts your hypothesis. I can't do that if you continue to dodge the issue.Edited by teen4christ, : No reason given.

tesla writes

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how does chromosomes have anything to do with how evolution and adaption works?

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Everything. Centromeres control cell division and gene expression, you know.

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your trying to look at 2 objects of similar form then ask why they arnt identical?

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Huh?

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since when does chromosomes only add or subtract in evolution?

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But in this particular case, the chromosomes didn't add or subtract.Let me be overly simplistic to get us started. Every normal chromosome has a centromere in the center that controls gene expressions and cell division and two telomeres, one at each end, to prevent gene loss during cell division and DNA replication. If a chromosome is missing a telomere, everytime a cell divides it would lose some genes at the end of the chromosome that's missing the telomere. This would ultimately result in the partial, if not total, deletion of the chromosome and loads of genetic material. The telomeres also prevent the chromosomes from accidently fuse together.In apes, there are 24 chromosome pairs, totalling in 48 chromosomes. Each one of these chromosomes has a centromere in the center and 2 telomeres, one at each end. What puzzled scientists back in the 80's and 90's is that even though humans are almost genetically identical to the apes we only have 23 pairs of chromosomes, totalling in 46 chromosomes. The hypothesis was that at some point in the past a telomere was deactivated resulting in the fusing of 2 chromosomes. This hypothesis was later confirmed by the discovery of 2 centromeres and 4 telomeres in chromosome #2 in humans. 1 of the centromeres is there but inactive. 2 of the telomeres are in the center of the chromosome and also inactive.Do you understand the implication of this discovery? Centromeres and Telomeres are very much central to the issue.

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it is just as logical that a chromosomes was lost, as a chromosome was added.

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No, it is not. Each chromosome carries a rediculous number of genetic material programming for everything from hair color to the size of your feet to the number of your wisdom teeth and so on. Losing a pair of chromosome in such a short time period like 4 thousand years, or having a whole new pair of chromosome in that time, is unimaginable.