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Author Topic:   Honour Amongst Christians
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 211 of 308 (453813)
02-04-2008 10:08 AM
Reply to: Message 209 by Stile
02-04-2008 9:30 AM


Re: Battle
Hi Stile,
Stile writes:
How does this analogy correlate to what we're talking about anyway? I'm not in a battle I'm trying to win against God.
Stile you are in an all out war and don't even realize it.
You have already lost.
You are in the final battle.
The terms of surrender has been presented to you in this thread.
You can surrender or face the consequences.
Now you figure out what is most honorable for you.
The devil would love to have the opportunity you have as you read this message, But he never will.
Now you can choose to stand on some principal that you think is important to you here in this life.
But I tell you that you are so full of pride that you are not willing to admit that you need to be saved. Because you think you are honorable. Therefore no man can tell you what you should or should not do.
So take your pride and your honor and when you stand before the Great White Throne Judgment and bow your knees and confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. Then hear Him say depart from me Stile you worker of iniquity into the everlasting fire, I never knew you.
Then you can have your pride and honor there forever to enjoy your punishment.
Shucks, I forgot you don't really believe in God or the lake of fire so excuse my rant.
God Bless those who trust Him,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 209 by Stile, posted 02-04-2008 9:30 AM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 213 by Stile, posted 02-04-2008 11:22 AM ICANT has not replied
 Message 214 by Stile, posted 02-04-2008 11:25 AM ICANT has replied

Creationista
Inactive Junior Member


Message 212 of 308 (453818)
02-04-2008 10:32 AM
Reply to: Message 210 by Stile
02-04-2008 10:03 AM


"No offense, but you saying I'm in need of a pardon does not make it so."
I did not say you were in need of a pardon. I was discussing the individual in my hypothetical.
"I wouldn't ask for a pardon. I would either deserve it, or I wouldn't."
No one deserves a pardon, or else it would be an exoneration and not a pardon. A pardon refers to being released from responsibility for a wrong you have done. People who have done wrongs do not deserve to be pardoned.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 210 by Stile, posted 02-04-2008 10:03 AM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 215 by Stile, posted 02-04-2008 11:29 AM Creationista has replied

Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 213 of 308 (453825)
02-04-2008 11:22 AM
Reply to: Message 211 by ICANT
02-04-2008 10:08 AM


What battle?
ICANT writes:
Stile you are in an all out war and don't even realize it.
You have already lost.
You are in the final battle.
The terms of surrender has been presented to you in this thread.
The terms of surrender? The battle hasn't even been presented to me, in this thread or otherwise. Are you talking about what iano is saying?
It seems to me that iano and I are in agreement that I should be honest, and that's what's expected of me. When (if?) God feels the time has come to show Himself to me, I'm listening to the best of my abilities.
Now you can choose to stand on some principal that you think is important to you here in this life.
Honesty? Okay, I'll do that.
So take your pride and your honor and when you stand before the Great White Throne Judgment and bow your knees and confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. Then hear Him say depart from me Stile you worker of iniquity into the everlasting fire, I never knew you.
Are you saying that God (if He exists) wants me to lie to the very gifts He bestowed upon me? I don't think that sounds right at all. In fact, my conscience is screaming to me that to lie about this is very wrong.
You can say I'm full of pride if you'd like. But I'm not refusing to listen, or displaying any other traits that would imply pride in any way.
Then you can have your pride and honor there forever to enjoy your punishment.
But I'm not acting with pride, or at least I'm trying my best not to. And I'm not clinging to honour, I'm just trying my best to be honest and do what I think is right. I certainly wouldn't enjoy any punishment imposed on me. But if that's my fate because I won't lie to myself, then I suppose I am condemned.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 211 by ICANT, posted 02-04-2008 10:08 AM ICANT has not replied

Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 214 of 308 (453829)
02-04-2008 11:25 AM
Reply to: Message 211 by ICANT
02-04-2008 10:08 AM


What I don't believe in
ICANT writes:
Shucks, I forgot you don't really believe in God or the lake of fire so excuse my rant.
I never believe in anything because people simply tell me it's true. That is the worst way to lie yourself, and become involved in the worst evils of this existence without even knowing they're bad.
Doomed is the liar and cheat who manipulates people. Doomed as well are those who are manipulated because they don't use the abilities they have been given to investigate.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 211 by ICANT, posted 02-04-2008 10:08 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 218 by ICANT, posted 02-04-2008 1:32 PM Stile has replied

Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 215 of 308 (453832)
02-04-2008 11:29 AM
Reply to: Message 212 by Creationista
02-04-2008 10:32 AM


Whoops, wrong word
Creationista writes:
No one deserves a pardon, or else it would be an exoneration and not a pardon. A pardon refers to being released from responsibility for a wrong you have done. People who have done wrongs do not deserve to be pardoned.
You are absolutely correct. I used the wrong wording there, and I should have been more careful.
What I meant to say was that either I will be granted a pardon, or I will not. Whatever happens I cannot earn it or deserve it or control it in any way. It is God's gift, and His to grant. I am not worthy, I agree I've done plenty of evil things myself.
This, however, doesn't change anything I meant in the last post.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 212 by Creationista, posted 02-04-2008 10:32 AM Creationista has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 217 by Creationista, posted 02-04-2008 12:25 PM Stile has replied

iano
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 216 of 308 (453839)
02-04-2008 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 209 by Stile
02-04-2008 9:30 AM


Re: That makes more sense
iano writes:
You can use your last breath to testify honestly that you were never convinced of God's existance. But you can't arrive at that point honestly. The only way to arrive at that point is by preventing God convincing you.
Stile writes:
So, reading between the lines... you're saying that God will convict everyone before they die, no exceptions, right? Is that true?
The lines (rather than what lies between them) state that God will not convict everyone. It’s not that he doesn’t attempt to convict everyone (he does), it’s just that everyone is permitted (by God) to prevent their being brought to the point of total, saving conviction. In other words: you are saved once finally convinced - but you can escape being finally "cornered".
Then I have nothing to worry about, I will just keep being honest with the information available.
If you don’t know in what form God’s truth is revealed to you personally, how would you know whether you are being honest or not with it? And if you don’t know this way or that, then you can’t know whether you have something to worry about or not.
And suppression of any truth (regardless if it's from God or not) is dishonourable. I'd never try to do this. I will just continue to be honest with the information available, then. It seems like you're saying that's what we should be doing. I agree, and think this is honourable as well.
Fly in the ointment time. Because you're a sinner by nature you don’t have to try to suppress God’s truth. It’s as natural for you to do this as it is for cats to chase mice. You suppress the truth every day - and countless times at that. Hell, I do it too.. and I’m saved!
To put it another way. I take your point that you find it best / natural / sensible / honourable . to be honest. But you seem to be supposing that your “honesty compass” is accurately calibrated. Therein lies a fatal error: biblically speaking, your compass is completely wonkey and the course you chart using it is miles out. In fact, the course you chart is taking you to Hell.
You might not be conciously unaware that you are lost at sea but unawareness of that fact doesn’t alter that fact. Indeed, one of the flavours of conviction is the dawning awareness that you are lost. It stands to reason that in order to sing "I once was lost but now I'm found" a person must be able to appreciate both positions. It's a characteristic of the lost not to realise that they are lost.
Which is honourable? To admit defeat or no?
There is no honourable option available anymore.
I’m confused
In battle, there is a point where you reckon you can win or a point when you reckon you can’t or a point where your not sure either way. There are none other that I can think of.
Surrendering when you reckon you can win isn’t honourable. Surrendering when your not sure either way isn’t either - you would sue for stalemate perhaps, but not surrender. And you think there is no honourable way of defeat either.
I would have thought otherwise. Your enemy has battled (ultimately) to have things his way and you, in turn, have fought to have things your way. That’s the root rationale behind every battle when you think about it. But to deny your enemy what he has fought for and won would be dishonourable. Take a world title boxer losing a titlefight and refusing to hand over his title belt - dishonourable. The victor has rights and it is not for you, the loser, to deny those rights but to enable those rights.
The victor offers unconditional surrender or death to you the loser. It is his right as victor to offer what he likes. It is for you the loser to chose. To not chose would be dishonourable of you - for it forces the victor to chose for you - which is not for you, the loser to demand.
How does this analogy correlate to what we're talking about anyway?
God offers unconditional surrender or death. You'll lose.
I'm not in a battle I'm trying to win against God.
God’s view is that you are an enemy of his. You are currently fighting on the losing side of a rebellion afterall. Satan heads up that rebellion... and you are his footsoldier. Says God.
I'm just trying to be honest with the information available to me. As soon as there's any information I can honestly evaluate about the existence of God in any way, I will look at it in earnest. I do not have anything standing in the way, or blocking the path. I'm simply honestly living life, and at this point right now, it honestly looks like the Christian God doesn't exist (to me, anyway).
I’ve given you some fresh information. Your nature means you cannot be honest with the information given to you. Which means you are not in a position to evaluate it accurately. You see the dilemma - your assuming your compass is calibrated correctly and the Bible says it's wonkey.
As soon as there's any information I can honestly evaluate about the existence of God in any way, I will look at it in earnest
Reliant upon your own compass. Reliant upon your honesty. Reliant upon your evaluation skills. Reliant upon yourself in a word.
One day you might be convinced to rely on Jesus Christ and him alone.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 209 by Stile, posted 02-04-2008 9:30 AM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 219 by Stile, posted 02-04-2008 1:50 PM iano has replied

Creationista
Inactive Junior Member


Message 217 of 308 (453842)
02-04-2008 12:25 PM
Reply to: Message 215 by Stile
02-04-2008 11:29 AM


Re: Whoops, wrong word
I'm going to simplify this a little. Actually, a lot. But the idea is the same. I have an ice cream cone. In fact, I have two. One for me, and maybe one for you. But, If you do not like ice cream, giving you one is a waste. So, I ask you if you want it. You saying "Yes, please" in no way cheapens my giving you a gift. It in no way makes you less "deserving" or "honorable". It's simply more efficient.
Now, naturally, if "salvation" is necessary, then it's a little more important than "Do you want ice cream". However, I do not truly see how asking for forgiveness when it is offered is really any different. You can stand in line for food, but no one will give it to you until you tell them what you want. And then, you will starve, and it will not be anyone's fault. Some people have their own food. Some people need to get it from someone else.
I guess the point is, the offer is already made on things like this; you just have to accept it. If you do not need what is being offered (and there is sufficient evidence to suggest that the jury is still out on whether everyone needs it or not) or you do not like what is being offered, then don't take it. But it's more about accepting, I feel, than begging.
Edited by Creationista, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 215 by Stile, posted 02-04-2008 11:29 AM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 220 by Stile, posted 02-04-2008 1:59 PM Creationista has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 218 of 308 (453855)
02-04-2008 1:32 PM
Reply to: Message 214 by Stile
02-04-2008 11:25 AM


Re: What I don't believe in
Hi Stile,
Stile writes:
Doomed is the liar and cheat who manipulates people. Doomed as well are those who are manipulated because they don't use the abilities they have been given to investigate.
You left out the most important one.
Doomed is the man, To a lake of fire forever, who will not trust Christ and receive the free pardon offered.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 214 by Stile, posted 02-04-2008 11:25 AM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 221 by Stile, posted 02-04-2008 2:09 PM ICANT has replied

Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 219 of 308 (453861)
02-04-2008 1:50 PM
Reply to: Message 216 by iano
02-04-2008 12:09 PM


Honestly searching
The lines (rather than what lies between them) state that God will not convict everyone. It’s not that he doesn’t attempt to convict everyone (he does), it’s just that everyone is permitted (by God) to prevent their being brought to the point of total, saving conviction. In other words: you are saved once finally convinced - but you can escape being finally "cornered".
I see. But this doesn't alter what I think is best, then. I should keep being honest, and evaluate all possible invitations from God and eventually I will find Him (or He will find me, anyway).
But you seem to be supposing that your “honesty compass” is accurately calibrated. Therein lies a fatal error: biblically speaking, your compass is completely wonkey and the course you chart using it is miles out. In fact, the course you chart is taking you to Hell.
Fully understood and agreed. But how else am I to set my compass then to honestly search for God so He can do so? I mean, I can't set my compass to yours (no offense) because you're human as well. I can't set my compass to my family's or my friends, or Steven Hawking's, or the Pope's, or anyone's. So all I can do is continue to be as open and honest as I possibly can until God sets my compass. Do you have another option?
It's a characteristic of the lost not to realise that they are lost.
Agreed. And, as for the same reasons above, my only choice is to use my abilities to their best until God helps me to become aware. So I should keep being honest and open and listen closely to where the answers could be.
The victor offers unconditional surrender or death to you the loser. It is his right as victor to offer what he likes. It is for you the loser to chose. To not chose would be dishonourable of you - for it forces the victor to chose for you - which is not for you, the loser to demand.
I agree completely. Still. I agreed completely to this the last time you said so.
Your enemy has battled (ultimately) to have things his way and you, in turn, have fought to have things your way. That’s the root rationale behind every battle when you think about it. But to deny your enemy what he has fought for and won would be dishonourable. Take a world title boxer losing a titlefight and refusing to hand over his title belt - dishonourable. The victor has rights and it is not for you, the loser, to deny those rights but to enable those rights.
Of course that would be dishonourable. But just because one option is dishonourable, doesn't make the other option honourable. Honour isn't that easy. Admitting defeat isn't always honourable. And when you do so at the end of your rope, with no other option left anyway, it certainly isn't honourable, it's simply the only option you have left at this point.
God offers unconditional surrender or death. You'll lose.
Okay. Lose what? I choose surrender, as soon as God makes His offer, anyway.
God’s view is that you are an enemy of his. You are currently fighting on the losing side of a rebellion afterall. Satan heads up that rebellion... and you are his footsoldier. Says God.
No. Says iano. See the name above where it says "Member" for your account? It says "iano". Even if it did say "God", I'd be highly suspicious at this point. The scenario you provide may very well be true, but then again it may be a false path. Right now, my honest evaluation says that this is a false path. I have no other choice but to be true to my honest evalutation. At least, until God sets my compass, anyway.
I’ve given you some fresh information. Your nature means you cannot be honest with the information given to you. Which means you are not in a position to evaluate it accurately. You see the dilemma - your assuming your compass is calibrated correctly and the Bible says it's wonkey.
The Bible cannot be used to set my compass. I fully understand that my compass may be wonkey. But the Bible cannot correct it, there are too many obviously evil problems with the Bible. But I don't want to get into that. We can just say that my honest evaluation of the Bible is that it's not a good compass setter, and that it's not from God.
Reliant upon your own compass. Reliant upon your honesty. Reliant upon your evaluation skills. Reliant upon yourself in a word.
Absolutely true, for now. If you have any other options available, I'd really like to hear about them.
One day you might be convinced to rely on Jesus Christ and him alone.
All I can do is be open to allowing God to set my compass the way He sees fit. And the only way I can do that, is to the best of my current abilities. I'm listening the best I possibly can, and trying to hear anything God has to say to me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 216 by iano, posted 02-04-2008 12:09 PM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 231 by iano, posted 02-05-2008 10:18 AM Stile has replied

Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 220 of 308 (453864)
02-04-2008 1:59 PM
Reply to: Message 217 by Creationista
02-04-2008 12:25 PM


Re: Whoops, wrong word
I have an ice cream cone. In fact, I have two. One for me, and maybe one for you. But, If you do not like ice cream, giving you one is a waste. So, I ask you if you want it. You saying "Yes, please" in no way cheapens my giving you a gift. It in no way makes you less "deserving" or "honorable". It's simply more efficient.
I agree. And I have no problems whatsoever with this scenario you present. Hopefully the simplification didn't leave out any important nuances.
So, now I will just continue to live honestly until (if) I'm ever asked if I would like the gift.
In fact, I've already silently wondered if anyone is attempting to give me a gift and I just can't hear them for whatever reason, and in that case I have already asked for (or accepted) the gift as well.
I haven't received any confirmation yet, though. But that may very well be irrelevent.
And it leaves me in exactly the same current situation, honestly searching.
But it's more about accepting, I feel, than begging.
From what you've said, by the way, I don't think I have any problem with the theology you believe in. It seems like I'm in line with what you're describing in this post, anyway.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by Creationista, posted 02-04-2008 12:25 PM Creationista has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 222 by Creationista, posted 02-04-2008 2:20 PM Stile has replied

Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 221 of 308 (453868)
02-04-2008 2:09 PM
Reply to: Message 218 by ICANT
02-04-2008 1:32 PM


If you say so
Doomed is the man, To a lake of fire forever, who will not trust Christ and receive the free pardon offered.
As soon as I even have an inkling that this isn't a false path. Even a little, tiny, possibility of a chance that this wasn't created by men, and promoted by men, then I will receive this pardon as quickly as humanly possible.
I asure you.
The only problem is that my honest evaluation tells me that this isn't the way, though. I'd be lying to myself (and God) if I said I believed in Jesus Christ. I'm not trying to be stubborn or an ass or anything, that's just the way it looks to me. I can't lie and say "I believe in Jesus Christ". I'm pretty sure God would know I was lying anyway, don't you think? So am I doomed to the lake of fire forever, because my honest evaluation of what is right and true tells me that Jesus Christ is not the path to gaining salvation?
I'm not saying I know what the path is, I'm not saying I have a better idea, I'm not saying I have any answers at all. All I'm saying is that, for me, I can't honestly say that I believe that Jesus Christ is the path to salvation.
There's too many false-path options. And, frankly, Jesus Christ is just another rag in the hamper. I can't see anything about Jesus Christ that puts him above any other persons' personal story about the path to salvation. I honestly can't. If I believed in Jesus Christ, it would be because I believe ICANT. And, well, I don't believe you.
If this dooms me, then I am doomed.
All I can do is continue to be honest, and evaluate everyone's claims to the path of salvation as best I can.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 218 by ICANT, posted 02-04-2008 1:32 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 224 by ICANT, posted 02-04-2008 4:00 PM Stile has replied

Creationista
Inactive Junior Member


Message 222 of 308 (453872)
02-04-2008 2:20 PM
Reply to: Message 220 by Stile
02-04-2008 1:59 PM


Re: Whoops, wrong word
"In fact, I've already silently wondered if anyone is attempting to give me a gift and I just can't hear them for whatever reason, and in that case I have already asked for (or accepted) the gift as well.
I haven't received any confirmation yet, though. But that may very well be irrelevent."
I think that the most serious problems in human spirituality are that we insist on Neon signs and that we are not willing to accept that the point of religion is really to release us from responsibility and guilt for the things we cannot control or change about ourselves, rather than to show us what awful things we are and why we must continually castigate ourselves.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 220 by Stile, posted 02-04-2008 1:59 PM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 223 by Stile, posted 02-04-2008 3:02 PM Creationista has not replied

Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 223 of 308 (453878)
02-04-2008 3:02 PM
Reply to: Message 222 by Creationista
02-04-2008 2:20 PM


Sounds good, hope it is
I think that the most serious problems in human spirituality are that we insist on Neon signs and that we are not willing to accept that the point of religion is really to release us from responsibility and guilt for the things we cannot control or change about ourselves, rather than to show us what awful things we are and why we must continually castigate ourselves.
I think that's a very healthy understanding of religious fundamentals. Too bad that the ones who believe they are awful things and must be castigated generally also have larger mouths. These folk tend to spread what they think is the word, and end up hurting a lot of other-wise innocent (although possibly a bit naive) individuals. Then the snowball grows. It's this kind of mess I wish I was capable of doing something to help prevent.
'Prevent' may be the wrong word. 'Correct' would probably be better. I don't think it would be an efficient use of resources to try and stop the large-mouthed spreaders. There seems to be an unending supply, and their work is quick. I think the best method is an attempt to provide an honest alternative that those who are searching for truth can judge using their own merits. That's part of the reason why I like this forum so much. It's very nice here.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 222 by Creationista, posted 02-04-2008 2:20 PM Creationista has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 226 by Phat, posted 02-04-2008 4:32 PM Stile has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 224 of 308 (453888)
02-04-2008 4:00 PM
Reply to: Message 221 by Stile
02-04-2008 2:09 PM


Re: If you say so
Hi Stile,
Stile writes:
The only problem is that my honest evaluation tells me that this isn't the way, though. I'd be lying to myself (and God) if I said I believed in Jesus Christ. I'm not trying to be stubborn or an ass or anything, that's just the way it looks to me. I can't lie and say "I believe in Jesus Christ". I'm pretty sure God would know I was lying anyway, don't you think? So am I doomed to the lake of fire forever, because my honest evaluation of what is right and true tells me that Jesus Christ is not the path to gaining salvation?
How much time have you invested in studying God's manual?
Stile I wish I could tell you as jar would just forgit about it you are doing fine.
But according to the evidence I have you are doomed.
You are letting your education get in the way. Along with what you have heard.
You say you are a seeker but are you really. I asked you about two weeks ago to do something (read the book of John in a KJV Bible). Have you done that?
I know everybody says the Bible is a lie, it is just a myth, a bunch of men wrote it. Well I will agree it, it not in the form that was the original Words of God. But it is still a good book.
Let me talk about why I believe the Bible, and that My God is honorable for having let me have it.
Science tells me the universe has a beginning.
Gen. 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Science tells me the universe is expanding.
Isai.45:12 (KJV) I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.
Science says the land mass was all connected at one time.
Gene 1:9 (KJV) And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
Science tell me the land mass has moved apart.
Gene 10:25 (KJV) And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided; and his brother's name was Joktan.
Science tells me the life of the flesh is in the blood discovered in early 1900's.
Levi 17:11 (KJS) For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
There are so many. It tells me of the automobile it even tells of the crashes we have on our highways. It tells of airplanes, radio, television and many more things. Too many for it to have happened by chance that those fellows knew what they were talking about with outsome outside help.
All of these things were talked about and written about long before science came along and figured it out. They could have saved a lot of time by reading the Bible.
Stile writes:
I'm not saying I know what the path is, I'm not saying I have a better idea, I'm not saying I have any answers at all. All I'm saying is that, for me, I can't honestly say that I believe that Jesus Christ is the path to salvation.
Well the same book that tells me about the things above tells me about Jesus. It did not lie then so I need to examine the book which I did.
My conclusions were God was honorable and gave me an honest account.
When I did that I decided to receive the pardon offered by God.
That was 58 years ago. After that 58 years of walking and talking with God and Him supplying all my needs and more as far as I am concerned I have concrete evidence that God is real.
I know no one but those who have experienced it know what I am talking about. To everyone else it is utter nonsense.
Don't take my word for anything. But if you are a true seeker of the truth read the book of John in a KJV Bible then e-mail me and tell me what you think of it.
I wish you luck in your journey,
God Bless,

This message is a reply to:
 Message 221 by Stile, posted 02-04-2008 2:09 PM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 225 by Phat, posted 02-04-2008 4:30 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 227 by Stile, posted 02-04-2008 4:42 PM ICANT has replied

Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
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Message 225 of 308 (453895)
02-04-2008 4:30 PM
Reply to: Message 224 by ICANT
02-04-2008 4:00 PM


The Guy On The Street Corner
I have a question. (This relates to honour, I am sure of it! )
Say that one day in a busy city, a guy on a street corner was handing out free Bibles. He said to anyone and everyone who passed by, "Take this book and read it! It contains the answer for your problems."
OK...say that one passerby saw the free offer, noticed that the guy was polite enough and seemed as honest as he could be, yet decided for whatever reason not to take that book and read it.
By dishonoring the offer, would this passerby miss out on the answer?
If so, is that honorable on Gods part?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 224 by ICANT, posted 02-04-2008 4:00 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 229 by ICANT, posted 02-04-2008 5:14 PM Phat has not replied

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