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Author Topic:   Evolutionary superiority
bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2477 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 166 of 302 (453993)
02-05-2008 4:24 AM
Reply to: Message 156 by pelican
02-04-2008 5:32 PM


Heinrik writes:
bluegenes writes:
Why don't they just become Christian creationists, then?
It doesn't give enough credence to their brilliant minds. But like you say, it would be a lot easier.
Or it could be that they're not as talented as the creationists in at least one way. They may not be as capable of telling themselves comforting lies which, amongst other things, would automatically mean that they would be not only superior, but more valuable in the eyes of God. The creationists are automatically and by definition, in their own minds, the most superior and most valuable people on earth.
It is impossible to be a creationist without believing this.
So, what I'm pointing out on this thread is that the accusation of feeling more "valuable", as hillbilly puts it in his O.P., are far better directed at creationists than evolutionists.
If anyone wants to dispute this point, they're welcome to try, and I'll be happy to debate it.... but that they'll lose the debate is something I'm sure of, not just because I'm a typical evolutionist superior debater (of course) but because people who believe that they follow the true religion and that others don't are always an elite in their own minds, regardless of the religion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by pelican, posted 02-04-2008 5:32 PM pelican has replied

Replies to this message:
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 167 of 302 (453995)
02-05-2008 4:35 AM
Reply to: Message 161 by pelican
02-05-2008 1:10 AM


Re: Hey, that's not bad!
Which stuff have I made up?
Your fantasies about what's going on in other people's heads, as you might have discovered by reading my post, where I wrote:
Dr A writes:
[H]is fantasies about what's going on other people's heads is, y'know, stuff he's made up.
No wonder you don't understand what other people think, if you can't even understand what they think when they spell it out in plain English.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 161 by pelican, posted 02-05-2008 1:10 AM pelican has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 169 by pelican, posted 02-05-2008 4:50 AM Dr Adequate has replied

  
pelican
Member (Idle past 4985 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 168 of 302 (453996)
02-05-2008 4:39 AM
Reply to: Message 166 by bluegenes
02-05-2008 4:24 AM


Or it could be that they're not as talented as the creationists in at least one way. They may not be as capable of telling themselves comforting lies which, amongst other things, would automatically mean that they would be not only superior, but more valuable in the eyes of God. The creationists are automatically and by definition, in their own minds, the most superior and most valuable people on earth.
This is why they don't get on very well maybe. Point taken. Humourous too.
So, what I'm pointing out on this thread is that the accusation of feeling more "valuable", as hillbilly puts it in his O.P., are far better directed at creationists than evolutionists.
About equally I would guess.
If anyone wants to dispute this point, they're welcome to try, and I'll be happy to debate it.... but that they'll lose the debate is something I'm sure of, not just because I'm a typical evolutionist superior debater (of course) but because people who believe that they follow the true religion and that others don't are always an elite in their own minds, regardless of the religion
I will be in that. Are you going to propose the topic or shall I?

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pelican
Member (Idle past 4985 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 169 of 302 (453997)
02-05-2008 4:50 AM
Reply to: Message 167 by Dr Adequate
02-05-2008 4:35 AM


Re: Hey, that's not bad!
Your fantasies
My fantasies about "WHAT" exactly going on in other peoples heads? I never mention my fantasies to anyone. How would you know? You saying I have fantasies going on in my head does not make it so. You cannot possibly know unless you are a mind reader. Read what is on my mind now that I'm not saying.
Or are you being facetious?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-05-2008 4:35 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 170 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-05-2008 9:02 AM pelican has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 170 of 302 (454028)
02-05-2008 9:02 AM
Reply to: Message 169 by pelican
02-05-2008 4:50 AM


Re: Hey, that's not bad!
My fantasies about "WHAT" exactly going on in other peoples heads? I never mention my fantasies to anyone. How would you know? You saying I have fantasies going on in my head does not make it so. You cannot possibly know unless you are a mind reader.
In fact, I can. You see, there is another way to find out what people think besides trying to read their minds, and that is by listening to them when they tell you what they think. The great thing about this method is that it usually works.
In this particular case, I read post #127 of this thread, which was written by you, and so I got to find out what you were thinking when you posted it, and so was able to observe that you fantasise about what's going on in other people's heads, since --- and this was the thing that tipped me off --- that post consisted mainly of a fantasy about what was going on in other people's heads.
Welcome to reality. Wipe your feet on the mat.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 169 by pelican, posted 02-05-2008 4:50 AM pelican has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 171 by pelican, posted 02-05-2008 5:59 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
pelican
Member (Idle past 4985 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 171 of 302 (454143)
02-05-2008 5:59 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by Dr Adequate
02-05-2008 9:02 AM


Re: Hey, that's not bad!
Seriously, taking it as true that : evolutionists believe themselves more valuable and taking it that the value is placed on levels of education, in turn showing levels of intelligence, then I would say the answer is : because they don't actually feel valuable as human beings alone. They need a label that lifts them high enough to look down on someone else to make them feel better about themselves.
This is the offending post. ah.
My love, it was a hypothesis. You have to read the small print (so to speak). The introduction clearly states........taking it as true..........blah blah....then I would say...........
I could have said If this is true and it would mean the same. Just another little communication problem.
In fact, I can. You see, there is another way to find out what people think besides trying to read their minds, and that is by listening to them when they tell you what they think. The great thing about this method is that it usually works.
Yes, exactly how I do it. So where did 'fantasy' come from?
regards
Edited by Heinrik, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-05-2008 9:02 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 172 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-05-2008 10:19 PM pelican has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 172 of 302 (454208)
02-05-2008 10:19 PM
Reply to: Message 171 by pelican
02-05-2008 5:59 PM


Re: Hey, that's not bad!
My love, it was a hypothesis. You have to read the small print (so to speak). The introduction clearly states........taking it as true..........blah blah....then I would say...........
Yes. It was a fantasy. You imagined your premises. That is what a fantasy is.
Yes, exactly how I do it. So where did 'fantasy' come from?
That is not "how you do it", as you have just admitted, which is why I call it a fantasy.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 171 by pelican, posted 02-05-2008 5:59 PM pelican has replied

Replies to this message:
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pelican
Member (Idle past 4985 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 173 of 302 (454223)
02-06-2008 12:03 AM
Reply to: Message 172 by Dr Adequate
02-05-2008 10:19 PM


Re: Hey, that's not bad!
definition of hypothesisa proposal intended to explain certain facts or observations
Definition of fantasy:The creative imagination; unrestrained fancy. See synonyms at imagination.
Something, such as an invention, that is a creation of the fancy.
A capricious or fantastic idea; a conceit.
Fiction characterized by highly fanciful or supernatural elements.
An example of such fiction.
An imagined event or sequence of mental images, such as a daydream, usually fulfilling a wish or psychological need.
An unrealistic or improbable supposition.
drinadequate writes:
* What Creationists Believe
Creationists believe that the universe was created thousands and thousands of years ago by a dog. This is where the word "dogma" comes from.
The idea of the universe made by a dog is so ridiculous that it is incredible that anyone would believe it. How could a dog make a universe with its little bitty paws?
Your imagination took hold of this one too. Is this the kind of material you use in a serious adult debate? Or was it meant to be a joke? Or on the other hand did you spell god backwards, but then it would be godma. Hey that sounds alright!
Edited by Heinrik, : No reason given.
Edited by Heinrik, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 172 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-05-2008 10:19 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 175 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-07-2008 9:23 AM pelican has replied

  
pelican
Member (Idle past 4985 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 174 of 302 (454408)
02-06-2008 9:08 PM
Reply to: Message 122 by Hill Billy
02-02-2008 12:35 AM


Re: Double double ?
hill billy writes:
Credit WHERE it's due!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Congratulations on standing your ground. I understood every point you made. Your tenacity on this forum equals mine.
Isn't equality great! touche!
hill billy writes:
Let's give credit where it's due instead of as required.
This is so poignant. Maybe I should nominate it for post of the month? Where are you?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by Hill Billy, posted 02-02-2008 12:35 AM Hill Billy has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 175 of 302 (454472)
02-07-2008 9:23 AM
Reply to: Message 173 by pelican
02-06-2008 12:03 AM


Re: Hey, that's not bad!
definition of hypothesisa proposal intended to explain certain facts or observations
Definition of fantasy:The creative imagination; unrestrained fancy. See synonyms at imagination.
Something, such as an invention, that is a creation of the fancy.
A capricious or fantastic idea; a conceit.
Fiction characterized by highly fanciful or supernatural elements.
An example of such fiction.
An imagined event or sequence of mental images, such as a daydream, usually fulfilling a wish or psychological need.
An unrealistic or improbable supposition.
Yes. You were indulging in fan-ta-sy.
Your imagination took hold of this one too. Is this the kind of material you use in a serious adult debate? Or was it meant to be a joke?
Yes ... that ... was ... a ... joke.
Well done.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 173 by pelican, posted 02-06-2008 12:03 AM pelican has replied

Replies to this message:
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pelican
Member (Idle past 4985 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 176 of 302 (454572)
02-07-2008 5:37 PM
Reply to: Message 175 by Dr Adequate
02-07-2008 9:23 AM


Re: Hey, that's not bad!
I'm bored now!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 175 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-07-2008 9:23 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Hill Billy
Member (Idle past 5354 days)
Posts: 163
From: The hills
Joined: 01-26-2008


Message 177 of 302 (454869)
02-08-2008 10:36 PM
Reply to: Message 151 by Trixie
02-04-2008 9:12 AM


Trixie, your words betray you.
Trixie, do you remember your school days? Were there any instances of big mean stupid jocks stuffing scrawny science and math geeks into lockers? ( wonder how many here are intimately familiar with the inside of a locker.) You have kids, any issues with bullying? A funny thing happens sometimes, sometimes these kids who get bullied grow up to be bullies. Sometimes they become cops, those guys can be scary. More often they discover that there can be power in knowledge and they use their intellect and education as weapons. It's not so bloody so most of it slides under the radar but I'm pretty sure that most people learn at a young age that mean people suck. Bullies, or mean people feel that they are entitled to act any way they want. They display a complete disregard for other peoples feelings, or even worse, they prey on others feelings,intending to cause pain.
Bullies piss me off.
What about you?
I expect others to place me based on what I say, i.e., I expect them to draw their own tentative conclusions, based on the evidence they have.
Ok, let's have a look at what you say.
In Your very, very first address to me you say:
To be honest, this is just so much garbage.
Hmmm, now first off, does this statement seem tentative to you?
Some people would call this a value statement. It is a clear declaration of value, not at all tentative. A declaration that my words have no value.
Now, remember what Nator said:
The only thing any of us have to go on here is what we read, you know.
So, you have clearly declared that I have no value. You have not declared your own value so I assume you ascribe to yourself some value. The first thing you say to me is that You are more valuable than me. Then, just in case I missed it you follow with :
I can't stop you spouting garbage
And then :
I don't think I'm a more valuable person
What? Hang on just a second. Is there not a principle somewhere about statements that contradict each other? Doesn't at least one of those statements need to be false? I think I know which one. What was it you were saying about insults?
I have questions.
If this basic scientific principle of things being tentative is so sound then why not apply it in other areas of life, why just science? Why not have a scientific attitude? Why not assume you might be wrong?
If You don't apply this principle in every day life do you expect people to believe that you will apply it at work?
Just so we are clear on everything, I believe that this thread: http://EvC Forum: Anyone else notice this pattern? -->EvC Forum: Anyone else notice this pattern?
opened by someone who disparately wants to belong to the bully club, is the intellectual equivalent of locker stuffing.
You should be ashamed of yourself. Shouldn't you? For participating.
You can stomp your feet and say no if you want. You can rationalize, justify, cry, deny. Don't matter much to me. I think, based on the evidence, I see you for what you are.
A bully.
Edited by Hill Billy, : Uuummmm
Edited by Hill Billy, : No reason given.

"Just cause what I say pisses you off does not mean that I said it just to piss you off." Me

This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by Trixie, posted 02-04-2008 9:12 AM Trixie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 185 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-09-2008 12:02 PM Hill Billy has replied
 Message 190 by Trixie, posted 02-09-2008 2:48 PM Hill Billy has replied

  
Blue Jay
Member (Idle past 2697 days)
Posts: 2843
From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts
Joined: 02-04-2008


Message 178 of 302 (454885)
02-08-2008 11:46 PM


This Topic
I'm surprised that no one's lost their head over this forum yet. I was going to stay out of it, because I have been having difficulty controlling my passions on this subject. Still, I want to make one comment.
I don't think it's fair to say any group of people is full of themselves. Even putting the word 'generally' before the claim doesn't make it okay. We are all condescending to each other (myself included) at least sometimes.
From my perspective, I find it extremely prideful to reject all material evidence in favor of belief in something based on personal feelings. Anyone who holds his or her own feelings as more legitimate than something that can be slapped down on the table in front of him or her obviously feels that his or her feelings are more 'valuable' than any amount of work, education or other effort. The same can be said about someone who puts those same feelings as more credible than the dedicated work, education and academic sacrifice of thousands of people over the last 150 years. I see this as, not only prideful, but ignorant, self-important and downright perverse.
Obviously, Hill Billy and others on this forum do not agree with me. Many will say it is prideful, evil and blasphemous of me to believe what I see with my eyes over what my proverbial heart tells me, and that my belief that God cannot cirumvent the laws of nature will land me straight in the deepest depths of Hell. I suppose it's their right to hold their own opinions on things, and it's not my right to tell them to repent or change. I used to think a lot like that, at one time in my life, but I will never go that way again.
I'd like to think that I'm not going to go to Hell. However, you are always free to believe I'm going to Hell. In fact, you're free to say it to my face (or, to my avatar, as the case me be, once I get one). I promise that I will not snap back or tell you that, in fact, I believe you are the one going to Hell. Maybe then, you will change your views about evolutionists.
Well, this turned out to be more than one comment. Oh well.
Edited by Bluejay, : Added last line.

Signed,
Nobody Important (just Bluejay)

Replies to this message:
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iano
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 179 of 302 (454897)
02-09-2008 3:51 AM
Reply to: Message 178 by Blue Jay
02-08-2008 11:46 PM


Re: This Topic
Bluejay writes:
From my perspective, I find it extremely prideful to reject all material evidence in favor of belief in something based on personal feelings.
How about rejecting all material evidence in favour of belief in something based on immaterial evidence?

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Replies to this message:
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Larni
Member (Idle past 163 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 180 of 302 (454899)
02-09-2008 5:15 AM
Reply to: Message 157 by pelican
02-04-2008 6:00 PM


Re: No garbage here.
I knew it! I knew you were Dameeva!
Yay

This message is a reply to:
 Message 157 by pelican, posted 02-04-2008 6:00 PM pelican has replied

Replies to this message:
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