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Author Topic:   20 years of the Creation/ID science curriculum
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 121 of 305 (454383)
02-06-2008 6:41 PM
Reply to: Message 118 by Cold Foreign Object
02-06-2008 5:40 PM


CFO in message 117 writes:
Human evolution says apes morphed into men over the course of millions of years. Evolution says mankind descended from apes and was not created by God from the clay-like ground. Human evolution is the most basic claim of Darwinism, you should know that.
CFO in message 118 writes:
Commentary presupposes that genome similarity indicates proof of descent from chimpanzees. The same is an interpretation of said evidence based on the supposition that evolution has occurred, and based on the supposition that Genesis is false. Of course, suppositions are not evidence but filters that interpret evidence.
Ray, you have posted over 3200 times in these forums and by now you have no excuse for not knowing that the 2 statements above are false. The Theory of Evolution does not say that humans evolved from chimpanzees. You are clearly making the point that as a Christian you are willing to lie to get your way. I assume that once the courts rule your way that you will continue to misrepresent science in the classrooms.
It is the same as me insisting that: "Genesis clearly states that Thor created the earth from his toenail clippings. Everyone knows that is what it says."

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
You can't build a Time Machine without Weird Optics -- S. Valley

This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 02-06-2008 5:40 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 122 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 02-06-2008 7:04 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3048 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 122 of 305 (454385)
02-06-2008 7:04 PM
Reply to: Message 121 by Tanypteryx
02-06-2008 6:41 PM


The Theory of Evolution does not say that humans evolved from chimpanzees.
The Theory of Evolution says chimps morphed into men from an ancient ape ancestor that lived millions of years ago. You do not like how I describe your wacko beliefs, that is your only point. Intelligent persons know that apes (or any animal for that matter) have no power to evolve into men or anything else. Human evolution is an absurdity that can only be understood when it is remembered that all Atheists are evolutionists and therefore Genesis is not an option.
Ray
Edited by Cold Foreign Object, : No reason given.
Edited by Cold Foreign Object, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by Tanypteryx, posted 02-06-2008 6:41 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 124 by nator, posted 02-06-2008 7:31 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 123 of 305 (454387)
02-06-2008 7:29 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by Beretta
02-05-2008 8:37 AM


Re: one thing is clear
OTOH, are you saying that you just want science teachers to teach all about evolution, and then mention (possibly) that there are some people who deny it despite the evidence presented?
quote:
No; present the evidence for evolution and the evidence for intelligent design and the negative evidence against each argument and let them critically analyse the argument-no need to take a dogmatic stand on something you cannot prove.
But we can do exactly the same thing with the Holocaust, you know.
The Holocaust deniers have lots and lots of evidence that they say proves that their conclusions are correct. Lots of books and articles are out there, with pictures, diagrams, statistics,...just like in the books which present the mainstream view of WWII history.
Both Holocaust deniers and Evolution deniers can provide lots and lots of evidence which they say supports their claims.
Why do you want one to be presented in schools in order to let the children decide but not the other?
Edited by nator, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by Beretta, posted 02-05-2008 8:37 AM Beretta has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 124 of 305 (454388)
02-06-2008 7:31 PM
Reply to: Message 122 by Cold Foreign Object
02-06-2008 7:04 PM


quote:
The Theory of Evolution says chimps morphed into men from an ancient ape ancestor that lived millions of years ago.
Wrong.
Chimps never "morphed into men", just like you didn't "morph" out of one of your ancestors 100 generations ago.
Chimps and men have a common ancestor, just like you have a common ancestor with your siblings.
Edited by nator, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 02-06-2008 7:04 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 126 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 02-06-2008 7:46 PM nator has replied

Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3048 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 125 of 305 (454390)
02-06-2008 7:35 PM
Reply to: Message 119 by Coyote
02-06-2008 5:53 PM


Actually, religiously-motivated individuals are becoming increasingly strident in their opposition to the theory of evolution since the losses in the U.S. Supreme Court. And they are getting farther from reality. Your post is a classic example.
Something that a evolutionist would say.
Creation "science" was blown out of the water in the late 1980s, leading to the current push for intelligent design. That has now been blown out of the water as well. The courts have recognized what science has long known.
Funny how the Constitution suddenly said Creationism was unconstitutional after judges, who are Darwinists, came to power.
Neither of these two ideas is science, nor were they ever accepted by mainstream science (99.5% of working scientists).
We already know that Atheists think Creationism-Design is not science, what is your point?
That is why your comments that you and your comrads are going to force your theology down our throats, and there is nothing we can do about it, are so ludicrous.
This comment defends the imposition of Atheist "science" (= Darwinism) upon Theist America. Again, we will prevail and remove the scourge of Darwinism that has been forced upon us.
You can't get your religion into the school systems because it is not science no matter how hard you posture, and everybody knows it.
Darwinian judges rule as expected. We will, in the semi-near future, reverse the corruption of pro-evolution judges.
Looks like your only choice is a coup and installation of a religious dictatorship under a prophet. Is that what you are advocating?
Negative.
When the corruption of the Constitution is reversed, science will be restored to the classroom one appoitment at a time.
You need not be so paranoid, we are only trying to restore a scientific theory that over half of all adults in America accept as true.
Ray
Edited by Cold Foreign Object, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by Coyote, posted 02-06-2008 5:53 PM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 128 by Tanypteryx, posted 02-06-2008 9:39 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied
 Message 129 by Coyote, posted 02-06-2008 10:16 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied
 Message 141 by LinearAq, posted 02-07-2008 11:56 AM Cold Foreign Object has not replied
 Message 152 by FliesOnly, posted 02-07-2008 3:58 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied
 Message 167 by nator, posted 02-07-2008 5:39 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3048 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 126 of 305 (454391)
02-06-2008 7:46 PM
Reply to: Message 124 by nator
02-06-2008 7:31 PM


Chimps never "morphed into men", just like you didn't "morph" out of one of your ancestors 100 generations ago.
Chimps and men have a common ancestor, just like you have a common ancestor with your siblings.
These comments silently agree that the concept of human evolution, and the way I am describing it, is ridiculous. Apes slowly changing into men, or morphing, as I have described it, would be a miracle, the same, of course, has no source.
Evolutionists laugh at the Genesis explanation of mankind while forgetting that their explanation is truly ridiculous (apes morphing into men).
The Bible is the most respected Source in the world and it declares that Adamkind were created by Divine power.
Ray

This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by nator, posted 02-06-2008 7:31 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 166 by nator, posted 02-07-2008 5:37 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

Organicmachination
Member (Idle past 5710 days)
Posts: 105
From: Pullman, WA, USA
Joined: 12-30-2007


Message 127 of 305 (454392)
02-06-2008 7:47 PM
Reply to: Message 125 by Cold Foreign Object
02-06-2008 7:35 PM


Something that a evolutionist would say.
Indeed. We tend to be accurate and clear-headed in our statements, yes.
Funny how the Constitution suddenly said Creationism was unconstitutional after judges, who are Darwinists, came to power.
The constitution has always said Creationism was unconstitutional. Maybe you've heard of the Establishment Clause (although I seriously doubt you have, or you are too thick-headed to understand it)? Thomas Jefferson himself wrote about the necessity of a "wall between Church and State." And where are the sources for the claim that judges are Darwinist?
We already know that Atheists think Creationism-Design is not science, what is your point?
So you're contending that 99.5% of working scientists are atheists? Wow. Either you're trolling at this point, or...no, you've got to be trolling at this point.
This comment defends the imposition of Atheist "science" (= Darwinism) upon Theist America. Again, we will prevail and remove the scourge of Darwinism that has been forced upon us.
And then what? Have a big tea party with your Daddy in the sky? After you do this, you'll have no basis for science in this country. You'll be rejected by the world and cleansed like an unholy infection from the face of this planet..by natural selection itself, of course.
Darwinian judges rule as expected. We will, in the semi-near future, reverse the corruption of pro-evolution judges.
They rule as expected from our entire system of law and order; they rule as America expects them to, from the very core of our very constitution. You people, on the other hand, rule from the basis of ignorance and mental depravity.
Negative.
When the corruption of the Constitution is reversed, science will be restored to the classroom one appoitment at a time.
You need not be so paranoid, we are only trying to restore a scientifc theory that over half of all adults in America accept as true.
Science has nothing to do with religion, which has everything to do with Creationism. Science, no thanks to you people, has been sequestered and held hostage since the dawn of Human knowledge. You won't be setting it free by introducing an imaginary Sky Man, you'll be sending it into its death throes, while the rest of the world, the ones who are enlightened to the true nature of the scientific Universe, race ahead of you to the acquisition of true knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 02-06-2008 7:35 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 128 of 305 (454415)
02-06-2008 9:39 PM
Reply to: Message 125 by Cold Foreign Object
02-06-2008 7:35 PM


CFO writes:
When the corruption of the Constitution is reversed, science will be restored to the classroom one appoitment at a time.
If the future you envision comes to pass life in America will be pretty grim. While you are at it you better add some new amendments to the constitution, like, "no thinking about evolution allowed", "no reading anything but the bible" in fact, "no thinking at all".
You need not be so paranoid, we are only trying to restore a scientific theory that over half of all adults in America accept as true
You are delusional and your vision scares the hell out of me. You really think that majority should rule when it comes to science. Let's just ignore the truth, the evidence, and vote on it. It was exactly your kind of thinking that Galileo had to face 400 years ago.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
You can't build a Time Machine without Weird Optics -- S. Valley

This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 02-06-2008 7:35 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 130 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 02-06-2008 10:46 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 129 of 305 (454420)
02-06-2008 10:16 PM
Reply to: Message 125 by Cold Foreign Object
02-06-2008 7:35 PM


quote:
...we will prevail and remove the scourge of Darwinism that has been forced upon us. ...
We will, in the semi-near future, reverse the corruption of pro-evolution judges. ...
When the corruption of the Constitution is reversed, science will be restored to the classroom one appoitment at a time.
You need not be so paranoid, we are only trying to restore a scientific theory that over half of all adults in America accept as true.
Sounds like a religious dictatorship to me.
And what are your plans for those of us who don't wish to live under your religious dictatorship, and who tell your prophet (or whatever your dictator is called) to stuff it?
Will the curriculum in 20 years resemble that of a madrasah in Afghanistan just a few years back? Do we get to live in the Christian version of dhimmitude? Do we get the Inquisition back?
I can't wait! We'll have a party! (Oh, right. They'll be outlawed too.)
(Nehemiah Scudder. Pick up the white courtesy telephone please.)

This message is a reply to:
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Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3048 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 130 of 305 (454422)
02-06-2008 10:46 PM
Reply to: Message 128 by Tanypteryx
02-06-2008 9:39 PM


If the future you envision comes to pass life in America will be pretty grim. While you are at it you better add some new amendments to the constitution, like, "no thinking about evolution allowed", "no reading anything but the bible" in fact, "no thinking at all".
That is a good description of reality today; Darwin and only Darwin is allowed; the Bible is banned; life in America is ruled by the grim reaper of Darwinism.
What does Saudi Arabia, Iran, North Korea, China, Syria and the U.S. Supreme Court all have in common?
They have banned the Bible. The same is excellent proof that Satan rules the kingdoms of this world just like the Bible says.
You are delusional and your vision scares the hell out of me.
Could we expect an Atheist to say anything else?
Let's just ignore the truth, the evidence, and vote on it.
Truth has been ignored, that is why we need to reverse the scourge of Atheist ideology called Darwinism.
Ray
Edited by Cold Foreign Object, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by Tanypteryx, posted 02-06-2008 9:39 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 131 by Minnemooseus, posted 02-06-2008 11:21 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied
 Message 133 by bluescat48, posted 02-07-2008 12:51 AM Cold Foreign Object has not replied
 Message 137 by reiverix, posted 02-07-2008 8:25 AM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3941
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 131 of 305 (454432)
02-06-2008 11:21 PM
Reply to: Message 130 by Cold Foreign Object
02-06-2008 10:46 PM


Paging a creationist moderator...
...or even a creationist who would like to fake being one.
Does Ray's position strike you as being cutting edge (paranoid?) delusional crackpot?
Do you want this to pass as a representation of Christianity?
Moose

This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 02-06-2008 10:46 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 132 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 02-06-2008 11:30 PM Minnemooseus has not replied
 Message 135 by Trixie, posted 02-07-2008 6:18 AM Minnemooseus has not replied

Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3048 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 132 of 305 (454435)
02-06-2008 11:30 PM
Reply to: Message 131 by Minnemooseus
02-06-2008 11:21 PM


Re: Paging a creationist moderator...
...or even a creationist who would like to fake being one.
Does Ray's position strike you as being cutting edge (paranoid?) delusional crackpot?
Do you want this to pass as a representation of Christianity?
Logically, whoever evolutionists say is the most deluded is the most correct because evolutionists always slander the Christian that represents the greatest threat to their theory.
You have also summoned a Creationist Moderator. If there are any in this Forum then you are telling them to punish me. If this happens, since I have engaged in no invective or profanity, or broken any rules, this will prove Biblical typology that says persons close to Christ will betray Him to His face with a kiss. Jesus said His true servants will be treated the same. So let this Judas appear and prove Biblical typology true corresponding to reality.
Ray

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 Message 131 by Minnemooseus, posted 02-06-2008 11:21 PM Minnemooseus has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 134 by Larni, posted 02-07-2008 4:16 AM Cold Foreign Object has replied

bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4189 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 133 of 305 (454443)
02-07-2008 12:51 AM
Reply to: Message 130 by Cold Foreign Object
02-06-2008 10:46 PM


Truth has been ignored, that is why we need to reverse the scourge of Atheist ideology called Darwinism.
What truth?

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other

This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 02-06-2008 10:46 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

Larni
Member (Idle past 164 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 134 of 305 (454451)
02-07-2008 4:16 AM
Reply to: Message 132 by Cold Foreign Object
02-06-2008 11:30 PM


Re: Paging a creationist moderator...
Hi Ray. Don't you think that the US (I assume your are from the US based on your oppinions) will fall terribly far behind the more scientifically oriented countries such as those in Europe and the Commonwealth, China and Japan?
We do know that the scientific method that has up until now been very good to the US will no longer operate if the protocols that conclude the ToE are removed.
Does this not imply quite strongly that the pace of discovery in the US will decline? Can we not model the future of the US on countries where the present day pace of scientific discovery is retarded by religious parameters?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 02-06-2008 11:30 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 145 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 02-07-2008 2:16 PM Larni has replied

Trixie
Member (Idle past 3706 days)
Posts: 1011
From: Edinburgh
Joined: 01-03-2004


Message 135 of 305 (454456)
02-07-2008 6:18 AM
Reply to: Message 131 by Minnemooseus
02-06-2008 11:21 PM


Re: Paging a creationist moderator...
Having done a Google search, I came across a wonderful page. Unfortunately the page is no longer available, but, oh joy of joys, Google still listed it's cached vesion from 18.01.2008 and I have had the satisfaction of copying and pasting the full text straight from the cache into Microsoft Word.
Sadly the whole mess runs to 24 pages in Word, but it is one of the most hilarious conversations I've seen for a while. Basically, it is a discussion between various Creationwiki people and Ray, attempting to get Ray to edit his article for them. Now, note this carefully;
THIS IS CREATIONWIKI!
By definition it's a creationist website. Ray ends up calling some of them atheists for asking him to support his assertions in his article!!!
You couldn't make this up!!
Now I really don't think that Admin would appreciate me pasting the entire text in this thread, however I will post the link to the cache for anyone who wants to try and access it.
arwin]-->Cached Google Page of Talk: Darwin himself was a racist (Talk.Origins)
If it disappears, I have a copy of the page saved in html format so that I can't be accused of having changed anything. If anyone wants a copy and can't find it, feel free to ask me to e-mail it to you, either in html or Word format.
There may be some problems with the link because if I put the entire link here, in the part which says "Talk : Darwin" I end up with "Talkarwin". I've had to put extra spaces in to get rid of the laughter icon . Even using the link shortening code, I still end up with a little laughing smilie. Rather appropriate, but inconvenient in a linkie.
This article highlights exactly what fellow Creationists think of Ray's frothings and how even discussion with fellow Creationistsdescends into accusations of inability to refute, Godsense removal, atheist etc, the usual Ray Martinez MO.
Edited by Admin, : Fix link by using dBCodes and disabling smilies.

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Replies to this message:
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 Message 140 by Larni, posted 02-07-2008 11:49 AM Trixie has not replied
 Message 142 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 02-07-2008 1:56 PM Trixie has replied

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