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Author Topic:   20 years of the Creation/ID science curriculum
Larni
Member (Idle past 164 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 136 of 305 (454458)
02-07-2008 7:03 AM
Reply to: Message 135 by Trixie
02-07-2008 6:18 AM


Re: Paging a creationist moderator...
Hi Trixie. I can't get the link to work and I would love to read it. Please could you send it to me?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by Trixie, posted 02-07-2008 6:18 AM Trixie has not replied

reiverix
Member (Idle past 5818 days)
Posts: 80
From: Central Ohio
Joined: 10-18-2007


Message 137 of 305 (454465)
02-07-2008 8:25 AM
Reply to: Message 130 by Cold Foreign Object
02-06-2008 10:46 PM


That is a good description of reality today; Darwin and only Darwin is allowed; the Bible is banned; life in America is ruled by the grim reaper of Darwinism.
You think you are so oppressed but the reality is you just want to force your views on everyone. Our lives would be governed by your beliefs with no room for thinking out of line. You paint a grim picture of a terrible future.
If kids want to learn about religion they can freely go to church. The bible is far from banned and you know it and the classroom is certainly no place for your lunatic ravings. Anyway it would scare the children
So if you really think bringing religion into science would improve our lives, just tell me about all the past inventions/discoveries that were made by inspiration of god.
What does Saudi Arabia, Iran, North Korea, China, Syria and the U.S. Supreme Court all have in common?
They have banned the Bible. The same is excellent proof that Satan rules the kingdoms of this world just like the Bible says.
Then your god is weak.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 02-06-2008 10:46 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 150 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 02-07-2008 2:49 PM reiverix has replied
 Message 281 by reiverix, posted 02-14-2008 8:34 AM reiverix has not replied

Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 138 of 305 (454467)
02-07-2008 8:46 AM
Reply to: Message 135 by Trixie
02-07-2008 6:18 AM


Re: Paging a creationist moderator...
Fixed the link, that was precious!
The creationist admins Ray was dealing with were patient, rational and sought evidence. They'd be great members here anytime.
CreationWiki's website doesn't seem to be working very well these days, I'm using the http://www.nwcreation.net/wiki/ link, maybe it's moved?
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by Trixie, posted 02-07-2008 6:18 AM Trixie has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 139 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-07-2008 11:06 AM Percy has not replied
 Message 143 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 02-07-2008 2:02 PM Percy has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 139 of 305 (454497)
02-07-2008 11:06 AM
Reply to: Message 138 by Percy
02-07-2008 8:46 AM


Re: Paging a creationist moderator...
Heh heh.
Ray writes:
It will be the most important Creationist paper ever written. I know everyone says that about their work, but, they are lying and they know it, and I am not.
Yup, that's our Ray all right.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by Percy, posted 02-07-2008 8:46 AM Percy has not replied

Larni
Member (Idle past 164 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 140 of 305 (454505)
02-07-2008 11:49 AM
Reply to: Message 135 by Trixie
02-07-2008 6:18 AM


Re: Paging a creationist moderator...
Oh that was fantastic! Now I finaly have some insight into what Ray has been promising for so long.
Nice to know that the creo admins think it's a pile of junk.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by Trixie, posted 02-07-2008 6:18 AM Trixie has not replied

LinearAq
Member (Idle past 4676 days)
Posts: 598
From: Pocomoke City, MD
Joined: 11-03-2004


Message 141 of 305 (454508)
02-07-2008 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 125 by Cold Foreign Object
02-06-2008 7:35 PM


Corruption of the Constitution
CFU writes:
When the corruption of the Constitution is reversed, science will be restored to the classroom one appoitment at a time.
What is meant by this statement? Do you mean that the Constitution is corrupt? In what way?
What is your grand scheme for changing the Constitution and what will this do to society in America 20 years hence?
My opinion is that if you change the Constitution to restrict the freedoms of any part of the population (Atheists, Muslims, homosexuals...etc) then you undermine the basic tenets under which this country was founded.
If your plan is to change the First Amendment with regards to the government's hands off approach to religion then I will be quickly looking into job prospects in Canada or New Zealand (both are nice places).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 02-06-2008 7:35 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3047 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 142 of 305 (454522)
02-07-2008 1:56 PM
Reply to: Message 135 by Trixie
02-07-2008 6:18 AM


Re: Paging a creationist moderator...
This article highlights exactly what fellow Creationists think of Ray's frothings and how even discussion with fellow Creationistsdescends into accusations of inability to refute, Godsense removal, atheist etc, the usual Ray Martinez MO.
You have misunderstood.
The conversations I had were with Fundamentalist Christians and Theistic evolutionists. Both accept microevolution. I do not.
Secondly, the page in its entirety is the product of a theistic evolutionist named Chris Ashcraft. He wrote the entire page that you have found. I did not. I emailed him and asked him to explain his actions but I have not received a reply.
Thirdly, the fact remains; you - an Atheist evolutionist are aligned with Fundamentalist Christians and Theistic evolutionists - I am not. I am glad to be rejected by Atheist evolutionists and Fundamentalist Christianity, and I am glad you have presented this evidence.
Ray

This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by Trixie, posted 02-07-2008 6:18 AM Trixie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 148 by Coyote, posted 02-07-2008 2:35 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied
 Message 155 by Trixie, posted 02-07-2008 4:11 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied
 Message 168 by nator, posted 02-07-2008 5:43 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3047 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 143 of 305 (454524)
02-07-2008 2:02 PM
Reply to: Message 138 by Percy
02-07-2008 8:46 AM


Re: Paging a creationist moderator...
The creationist admins Ray was dealing with were patient, rational and sought evidence.
Logically, since you - an Atheist evolutionist - support them, they cannot be real Creationists because an Atheist evolutionist would never support a real Creationist.
We know that these "Creationists" are Fundamentalists and they accept microevolution. I am glad all of you reject me. The support of any one of you would prove me to be just like you.
Ray

This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by Percy, posted 02-07-2008 8:46 AM Percy has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 144 by Rahvin, posted 02-07-2008 2:07 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4032
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 9.2


Message 144 of 305 (454526)
02-07-2008 2:07 PM
Reply to: Message 143 by Cold Foreign Object
02-07-2008 2:02 PM


Re: Paging a creationist moderator...
ogically, since you - an Atheist evolutionist - support them, they cannot be real Creationists because an Atheist evolutionist would never support a real Creationist.
We know that these "Creationists" are Fundamentalists and they accept microevolution. I am glad all of you reject me. The support of any one of you would prove me to be just like you.
Ray
Can you say "persecution complex?"
Or maybe even "paranoid schizophrenia?"
Percy's not an Atheist, Ray, you know that. You just like to throw the word around at anyone who doesn't agree with you as if it were some sort of insult.
The best part of all of this (aside from the early morning laughs Trixie has provided) is that now we finally get to do some research regarding this "scientist" you've based your vapid paper on! I can't wait to see the sort of lunacy this guy must have come up with to inspire your ravings!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 02-07-2008 2:02 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 146 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 02-07-2008 2:23 PM Rahvin has not replied

Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3047 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 145 of 305 (454527)
02-07-2008 2:16 PM
Reply to: Message 134 by Larni
02-07-2008 4:16 AM


Re: Paging a creationist moderator...
Hi Ray. Don't you think that the US (I assume your are from the US based on your opinions) will fall terribly far behind the more scientifically oriented countries such as those in Europe and the Commonwealth, China and Japan?
Americans from Los Angeles (where I was born and raised) do not fear our inferiors.
We do know that the scientific method that has up until now been very good to the US will no longer operate if the protocols that conclude the ToE are removed.
You have misunderstood. Evolution is a religion that has been forced onto America by anti-religious fanatics. It has nothing to do with science.
Does this not imply quite strongly that the pace of discovery in the US will decline?
Why would it?
What are you talking about?
Can we not model the future of the US on countries where the present day pace of scientific discovery is retarded by religious parameters?
You are ignorant. The U.S. became the greatest nation when religious freedom was real. We have steadily declined since the rise of Judges who are Darwinists, who were "educated" in universities poisoned by Darwinism.
Ray

This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by Larni, posted 02-07-2008 4:16 AM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 170 by nator, posted 02-07-2008 5:48 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied
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 Message 182 by Larni, posted 02-08-2008 2:46 AM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3047 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 146 of 305 (454529)
02-07-2008 2:23 PM
Reply to: Message 144 by Rahvin
02-07-2008 2:07 PM


Re: Paging a creationist moderator...
Percy's not an Atheist, Ray, you know that.
Evidence...?
The best part of all of this (aside from the early morning laughs Trixie has provided) is that now we finally get to do some research regarding this "scientist" you've based your vapid paper on! I can't wait to see the sort of lunacy this guy must have come up with to inspire your ravings!
Is there any evolutionist who accepts any person as a scholar that rejects evolution?
Logic says that whoever evolutionists slander the most is the most correct. This means Dembski and Behe are most correct since they seem to be the main target of evolutionist howling.
Ray

This message is a reply to:
 Message 144 by Rahvin, posted 02-07-2008 2:07 PM Rahvin has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 147 by LinearAq, posted 02-07-2008 2:34 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied
 Message 149 by LinearAq, posted 02-07-2008 2:43 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

LinearAq
Member (Idle past 4676 days)
Posts: 598
From: Pocomoke City, MD
Joined: 11-03-2004


Message 147 of 305 (454531)
02-07-2008 2:34 PM
Reply to: Message 146 by Cold Foreign Object
02-07-2008 2:23 PM


Re: Paging a creationist moderator...
Percy's not an Atheist, Ray, you know that.
Evidence...?
Percy has written that he is not.
I say that you are an atheist.
You say you are not. Evidence?
On topic:
What are the changes that must be made to America to incorporate ID in the science curriculum? How will those changes affect the US in 20 years?
Would atheism be illegal? What about Islam...allowed or not? How about Assemblies of God...legal...not legal?
Would freedom of expression be affected by these sweeping changes that your religion/sect will put in place?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 146 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 02-07-2008 2:23 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 148 of 305 (454532)
02-07-2008 2:35 PM
Reply to: Message 142 by Cold Foreign Object
02-07-2008 1:56 PM


Re: Denying microevolution
quote:
The conversations I had were with Fundamentalist Christians and Theistic evolutionists. Both accept microevolution. I do not.
You have shown by these posts that you are the exact opposite of a scientist.
Why should anyone trust anything you have to say on the subject of science? Might as well ask the mice for their opinions on cats.
By the way, microevolution, which apparently everyone else in the world but you accepts because of the evidence, can be readily seen.
Google "ring species" and see what science has found.
quote:
Ring species provide unusual and valuable situations in which we can observe two species and the intermediate forms connecting them. In a ring species:
A ring species, therefore, is a ring of populations in which there is only one place where two distinct species meet. Ernst Mayr called ring species "the perfect demonstration of speciation" because they show a range of intermediate forms between two species. They allow us to use variation in space to infer how changes occurred over time. This approach is especially powerful when we can reconstruct the biogeographical history of a ring species, as has been done in two cases. Source: Ring Species: Unusual Demonstrations of Speciation, by Darren E. Irwin.
This is clear evidence not only of microevolution, but also of macroevolution (speciation).
What is nice about ring species is that you have the two endpoints, clearly two species, but you also have all of the transitionals (that creationists swear don't exist) still intact as living populations in between the two endpoint species!
Deny the evidence for microevolution all you want, but its right there in front of your face. Just like a lot of the other evidence for the theory of evolution and the rest of science.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 02-07-2008 1:56 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 163 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 02-07-2008 5:07 PM Coyote has not replied

LinearAq
Member (Idle past 4676 days)
Posts: 598
From: Pocomoke City, MD
Joined: 11-03-2004


Message 149 of 305 (454535)
02-07-2008 2:43 PM
Reply to: Message 146 by Cold Foreign Object
02-07-2008 2:23 PM


Re: Paging a creationist moderator...
Logic says that whoever evolutionists slander the most is the most correct. This means Dembski and Behe are most correct since they seem to be the main target of evolutionist howling.
Amazingly, they both believe that the TOE is the best explanation for the diversity of life on Earth. They believe it was directed by an intelligent designer but it occurred just the same.
Since you say they are the most correct based on the inane logic that they are opposed by "evolutionists" the most, does this mean that you buy into evolution, speciation and the like? OR Do you think your statements, that macro and micro evolution don't occur, are wrong?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 146 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 02-07-2008 2:23 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 162 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 02-07-2008 4:45 PM LinearAq has replied

Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3047 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 150 of 305 (454536)
02-07-2008 2:49 PM
Reply to: Message 137 by reiverix
02-07-2008 8:25 AM


You think you are so oppressed but the reality is you just want to force your views on everyone. Our lives would be governed by your beliefs with no room for thinking out of line. You paint a grim picture of a terrible future.
It is a fact that pro-evolution judges have banned a scientific theory that half of all adults in the U.S. accept as true. Your comment seeks to preserve the imposition of Darwinism onto America by Darwinian judges. I seek to reverse the imposition.
The bible is far from banned and you know it and the classroom is certainly no place for your lunatic ravings
The experts like Castro, Pol Pot, Tse-Tung, Stalin and Hussein agree: censorship works: the Bible has been banned by Darwinian Judges on the Supreme and Federal court system. They have adjudicated their bias into the Constitution written by Deists, Theists and Christians in the 18th century. Again, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Iran, North Korea and China, like the Supreme Court, have all banned the Bible. What do these facts tell an objective person?
Proof of the existence of the superhuman personage of Satan.
Luke 4:5,6
And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.
And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.
So if you really think bringing religion into science would improve our lives, just tell me about all the past inventions/discoveries that were made by inspiration of god.
Comment presupposes false premises. That God is not proven by Science and that Darwinism is responsible for scientific advance.
Ray

This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by reiverix, posted 02-07-2008 8:25 AM reiverix has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 151 by reiverix, posted 02-07-2008 3:28 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied
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