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Author Topic:   20 years of the Creation/ID science curriculum
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 166 of 305 (454573)
02-07-2008 5:37 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by Cold Foreign Object
02-06-2008 7:46 PM


quote:
The Bible is the most respected Source in the world
Not really.
I am sure that NASA doesn't consult the Bible when they want to, for example, send astronauts to the moon and back aboard a rocket.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 02-06-2008 7:46 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 167 of 305 (454574)
02-07-2008 5:39 PM
Reply to: Message 125 by Cold Foreign Object
02-06-2008 7:35 PM


quote:
You need not be so paranoid, we are only trying to restore a scientific theory that over half of all adults in America accept as true.
Science isn't decided by public opinion.
If it were, then we would have classes on Astrology in school.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 02-06-2008 7:35 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 168 of 305 (454575)
02-07-2008 5:43 PM
Reply to: Message 142 by Cold Foreign Object
02-07-2008 1:56 PM


Re: Paging a creationist moderator...
quote:
The conversations I had were with Fundamentalist Christians and Theistic evolutionists. Both accept microevolution. I do not.
Wait, you don't accept that new species have been observed to emerge?
Even though they have been directly observed to have done so in real time, both in the lab and in the field?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 02-07-2008 1:56 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 177 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 02-07-2008 7:47 PM nator has replied

Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4032
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 9.2


Message 169 of 305 (454577)
02-07-2008 5:46 PM
Reply to: Message 162 by Cold Foreign Object
02-07-2008 4:45 PM


Dr. Scott?
Just a note on Ray's "Dr. Scott" from the conversation Trixie found:
Taken from Wikipedia:
quote:
As a minister and scholar, however, Scott was difficult to pin down theologically. He preached lessons that tended to emphasize biblical philology and his own idiosyncratic social gospel over traditional evangelical themes such as sin, repentance and being "born again". On the other hand, he frequently railed against what he considered to be government intrusion on his activities, and gave credence to government conspiracy theories about UFOs and other phenomena.
...
He earned his Ph.D. in Philosophies of Education at Stanford University in 1957 and subsequently served as an ordained minister for almost 50 years.
...
In 1975, Scott began a series of broadcasts, which resulted in the creation of the University Network. By 1983, the University Network was broadcasting his sermons twenty-four hours a day via satellite to the United States and Canada, as well as to much of Mexico and the Caribbean. By 1990, his network was available to 180 countries, and by 1992 his sermons were being broadcast in several languages on AM, FM, and short-wave radio. His programming consisted of his trademark informal style of Bible teaching mixed with provocative commentary, music, and personal interests in such diverse subjects as his paintings, scientific interpretations of the great wonders of the world, and his American saddle-bred horses.
So, essentially, Ray bases all of his mindless drivel and insane ramblings on a televangelist. This "Dr. Scott" had a Ph.D. in Philosophies of Education, not any science-related field! This is not a biologist, or a chemist, or a physicist, he's a freaking Jerry Falwell clone (I know Ray, your beloved Dr. Scott would hate to be called that).
Scott did nothing whatsoever in any field of science from what I can determine. The closest he ever got would be topics on his radio show discussing science - which gives him all of the credibility of George Noory on Coast to Coast rambling about psychics, Bigfoot, and little green men.
This is the world Ray wants: there is no scientific research, no further advances in any form of technology. Only reading and re-reading the Bible, and fantasizing over what "may" have been the mechanisms behind such laughably falsified claims as the global flood, 6-day Creationism, a young Earth, etc. This may not be the result of 20 years of ID/Creationism being taught in schools, but it could well be the result of 50 years. A society of morons with Bibles, not bothering to do any actual research, seeking answers for everything in a series of stone age myths. Medical research? It depends on evolution and other actual scientific principles, so it's an Atheist practice and should be banned. God will choose who lives. Technology? All inspiration required for scientific advances are clearly found in the Bible, right? I mean, Genesis is where science was invented, according to Ray.
SO go ahead, Ray. Refute Evolution. Share with us the mighty words of your televangelist idol. Let us know how a church pastor with little to no science education can refute the work of thousands of trained proffessionals, and in one fell swoop prove hundreds of years of observable, repeatable evidence wrong.
Lay it out, right here, right now, Ray, or you implicitly admit that you have nothing of substance, other than the crazy ramblings of a disturbed zealot.
ABE: Regarding Dr. Scott, from here: "He also devised an ingenious system to keep the government out of his financial affairs by demanding that his followers “give without strings”-i.e., donate their cash without having any idea what it’s going to be spent on. “The spirit of life goes to work for you . . . only if you give materially to me,” Scott says. “You should give to me if I wanted to go out and buy a rock band or the Mustang Ranch.”
Edited by Rahvin, : Added a quote from Dr. Scott the rabid televangelist

When you know you're going to wake up in three days, dying is not a sacrifice. It's a painful inconvenience.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 02-07-2008 4:45 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 175 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 02-07-2008 7:31 PM Rahvin has replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 170 of 305 (454578)
02-07-2008 5:48 PM
Reply to: Message 145 by Cold Foreign Object
02-07-2008 2:16 PM


Re: Paging a creationist moderator...
Hi Ray. Don't you think that the US (I assume your are from the US based on your opinions) will fall terribly far behind the more scientifically oriented countries such as those in Europe and the Commonwealth, China and Japan?
quote:
Americans from Los Angeles (where I was born and raised) do not fear our inferiors.
Have you been to Japan or Europe?
I have been to Japan and, let's see, seven European countries, and let me tell you, in many respects, each one is at leat equal and often superior to America.
Healthcare, food, wine, education, public transportation, politeness, violent crime rate (especially Japan), etc.
LA's annual gunshot homicide rate is probably greater than that of Europe and Japan combined.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 145 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 02-07-2008 2:16 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 171 of 305 (454579)
02-07-2008 5:49 PM
Reply to: Message 145 by Cold Foreign Object
02-07-2008 2:16 PM


Re: Paging a creationist moderator...
quote:
Evolution is a religion that has been forced onto America by anti-religious fanatics. It has nothing to do with science.
So, do you accept that DNA paternity tests are accurate?
Edited by nator, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 145 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 02-07-2008 2:16 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 172 of 305 (454594)
02-07-2008 6:31 PM
Reply to: Message 153 by Cold Foreign Object
02-07-2008 4:02 PM


Re: What's The Point?
Hey Ray,
Can you fix a long link for me?
http://groups.google.com/group/conservapedia-the-truth-about/web/how-the-l-a-times ... etc
or
How The L.A. Times Outsmarted Conservapedia and Andy Schlafly (Second edition)
type: [url=insert your url here]this message is linked to an url[/url]
and it becomes: this message is linked to an url
Long urls force the page to be wider than the screen, and thus make reading the posts difficult. Please edit the one you have in Message 153 so we can read the page.
Thanks.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 02-07-2008 4:02 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 173 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 02-07-2008 7:08 PM RAZD has replied

Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3047 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 173 of 305 (454603)
02-07-2008 7:08 PM
Reply to: Message 172 by RAZD
02-07-2008 6:31 PM


Re: What's The Point?
Long urls force the page to be wider than the screen, and thus make reading the posts difficult. Please edit the one you have in Message 153 so we can read the page.
Even though the link is absurdly long, the horizontal scroll bar does not appear, and on my computer screens a wide screen does not appear, BUT I will nonetheless do as you ask.
Ray

This message is a reply to:
 Message 172 by RAZD, posted 02-07-2008 6:31 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 174 by RAZD, posted 02-07-2008 7:14 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 174 of 305 (454604)
02-07-2008 7:14 PM
Reply to: Message 173 by Cold Foreign Object
02-07-2008 7:08 PM


Re: What's The Point?
Even though the link is absurdly long, the horizontal scroll bar ...
For some reason it doesn't appear for urls on my little laptop either.
and on my computer screens a wide screen does not appear, BUT I will nonetheless do as you ask.
Thanks, that did it. I used to be able to use "reply" to read posts that were wide but that doesn't work now (not for the one with the urls anyway).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 173 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 02-07-2008 7:08 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3047 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 175 of 305 (454609)
02-07-2008 7:31 PM
Reply to: Message 169 by Rahvin
02-07-2008 5:46 PM


Re: Dr. Scott?
Taken from Wikipedia:
Wikipedia is a Atheist controlled slander site. Anyone with a computer can contribute, like yourself, and write lies about Creationists and IDists.
Maybe you can tells us, who wrote the "article" on Dr. Scott, what is this persons name?
Was it Charles Darwin, Richard Dawkins, Bozo412, or Britney Spears?
Hooded knowledge is illegitimate.
Dr. Scott was a Stanford Ph.D. He also earned three Ph.D. minors; Psychology, Comparative Religion and Geography. The latter accomplishment was by oral exam. He is the only person to obtain a Ph.D. minor in Geography by oral exam having never taken a class on the subject at Stanford.
His Masters degree was in Argicultural Geography which is a Geology-based degree. Dr. Scott was the eminent Bible scholar in the world. He, of course, refuted the Theory of Evolution, which explains your "televangelist" slander and the slander of your fellow Atheists in the news media. Televangelists do not have Ph.D.s from Stanford.
Jared Diamond is considered a scientist and he is probably the most respected pro-evolution author in the world today. His degree is in Geography.
Of course the level of anger and slander seen in your post against Dr. Scott is in dierct ratio equal to the degree that you perceive him to be a threat to your theory.
Dr. Scott, of course, like Dr. Velikovsky, were the two greatest scholars of all time. Evolution has no real scholars since scholars are bound to tell the truth.
Ray
Edited by Cold Foreign Object, : No reason given.
Edited by Cold Foreign Object, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 169 by Rahvin, posted 02-07-2008 5:46 PM Rahvin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 176 by Rahvin, posted 02-07-2008 7:44 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied
 Message 191 by Quetzal, posted 02-08-2008 10:24 AM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4032
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 9.2


Message 176 of 305 (454611)
02-07-2008 7:44 PM
Reply to: Message 175 by Cold Foreign Object
02-07-2008 7:31 PM


Re: Dr. Scott?
Wikipedia is a Atheist controlled slander site. Anyone with a computer can contribute, like yourself, and write lies about Creationists and IDists.
Maybe you can tells us, who wrote the "article" on Dr. Scott, what is this persons name?
Was it Charles Darwin, Richard Dawkins, Bozo412, or Britney Spears?
Hooded knowledge is illegitimate.
I included Wiki information because it agreed with everything else I found on him on the web, all in one nice concentrated little spot. Easy for quoting.
Is any of the information wrong, Ray, or did you just want to dismiss it as usual? All I see is the typical Ray throwing around the word "Atheist" at everyone who doesn't completely agree with Ray, as if it were some sort of insult. You're like McCarthy and Communists, except funnier because you aren't in a position of authority.
Dr. Scott was a Stanford Ph.D. He also earned three Ph.D. minors; Psychology, Comparative Religion and Geography. The latter accomplishment was by oral exam. He is the only person to obtain a Ph.D. minor in Geography by oral exam having never taken a class on the subject at Stanford.
His Masters degree was in Argicultural Geography which is a Geology-based degree. Dr. Scott was the eminent Bible scholar in the world. He, of course, refuted the Theory of Evolution, which explains your "televangelist" slander and the slander of your fellow Atheists in the news media. Televangelists do not have Ph.D.s from Stanford.
Jared Diamond is considered a scientist and he is probably the most respected pro-evolution author in the world today. His degree is in Geography.
I don't care about a pro-evolution author, Ray. Pro-evolution authors don't contribute to research - they write about what others have done. If evolution rested on the opinions of Jared Diamond, I'd dismiss it as handily as your televangelist buddy.
Dr. Scott does not have a degree in any field surrounding evolution, and has never practiced science of any kind - he's a televangelist minister, Ray, nothing more. Now, he may be a crazy televangelist who buys his own press, I'm not entirely sure - but he's certainly no authority on evolution.
Now, despite my severe doubts as to the quality of Dr. Scott's opinions regarding evolution, you still haven't provided us with his argument. Appeals to Authority and Ad Hominems are logical fallacies, so despite my misgivings, I;m more than willing to give Dr. Scott's words and thoughts a fair shake. In fact, I'm eager to hear the argument you claim falsifies evolution. We're waiting, Ray.
Of course the level of anger and slander seen in your post against Dr. Scott is in dierct ratio equal to the degree that you perceive him to be a threat to your theory.
This is not me angry or hostile, Ray. This is me laughing most heartily at your insane ravings and televangelist muse. I don't perceive him, or you as a threat to anything other than the pocketbooks of the gullible - and fortunately Dr. Scott is now deceased, so he won't be scamming grandmothers out of their money any time in the near future.
Dr. Scott, of course, like Dr. Velikovsky, were the two greatest scholars of all time. Evolution has no real scholars since scholars are bound to tell the truth.
Ray
Mmmm hmm. So, since you've still refused to provide your actual argument that destroys evolution, you agree that you implicitly concede that you have nothing, and your tirades are nothing more than the sad rantings of a crazed zealot.
Either you're too much of a coward to have your argument examined in public, or you simply don't have one, Ray.

When you know you're going to wake up in three days, dying is not a sacrifice. It's a painful inconvenience.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 175 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 02-07-2008 7:31 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 178 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 02-07-2008 7:53 PM Rahvin has replied

Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3047 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 177 of 305 (454612)
02-07-2008 7:47 PM
Reply to: Message 168 by nator
02-07-2008 5:43 PM


Re: Paging a creationist moderator...
Wait, you don't accept that new species have been observed to emerge?
Even though they have been directly observed to have done so in real time, both in the lab and in the field?
If you want to get back on the wagon, email me and I will sponsor you.
Ray
Edited by Cold Foreign Object, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by nator, posted 02-07-2008 5:43 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
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Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3047 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 178 of 305 (454613)
02-07-2008 7:53 PM
Reply to: Message 176 by Rahvin
02-07-2008 7:44 PM


Re: Dr. Scott?
I don't care about a pro-evolution author, Ray. Pro-evolution authors don't contribute to research - they write about what others have done. If evolution rested on the opinions of Jared Diamond, I'd dismiss it as handily as your televangelist buddy.
Dr. Scott does not have a degree in any field surrounding evolution, and has never practiced science of any kind - he's a televangelist minister, Ray, nothing more. Now, he may be a crazy televangelist who buys his own press, I'm not entirely sure - but he's certainly no authority on evolution.
Now, despite my severe doubts as to the quality of Dr. Scott's opinions regarding evolution, you still haven't provided us with his argument. Appeals to Authority and Ad Hominems are logical fallacies, so despite my misgivings, I;m more than willing to give Dr. Scott's words and thoughts a fair shake. In fact, I'm eager to hear the argument you claim falsifies evolution. We're waiting, Ray.
This is not me angry or hostile, Ray. This is me laughing most heartily at your insane ravings and televangelist muse. I don't perceive him, or you as a threat to anything other than the pocketbooks of the gullible - and fortunately Dr. Scott is now deceased, so he won't be scamming grandmothers out of their money any time in the near future.
Mmmm hmm. So, since you've still refused to provide your actual argument that destroys evolution, you agree that you implicitly concede that you have nothing, and your tirades are nothing more than the sad rantings of a crazed zealot.
Either you're too much of a coward to have your argument examined in public, or you simply don't have one, Ray.
The degree of hate, rage and slander seen above is in direct ratio equal to the degree that you perceive Dr. Scott as a threat to your theory.
It was Dr. Scott who first pointed out: the acceptance of Darwinism is a penalty from God for denying Him credit as Creator.
This explains why a theory with no evidence is accepted.
Ray
Edited by Cold Foreign Object, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 176 by Rahvin, posted 02-07-2008 7:44 PM Rahvin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 179 by Rahvin, posted 02-07-2008 7:59 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied
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Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4032
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 9.2


Message 179 of 305 (454614)
02-07-2008 7:59 PM
Reply to: Message 178 by Cold Foreign Object
02-07-2008 7:53 PM


Re: Dr. Scott?
The degree of hate, rage and slander seen above is in direct ratio equal to the degree that you perceive Dr. Scott as a threat to your theory.
There is no hate or rage in my words. Simply amusement, and the joy of refuting a particularly poor position.
You calim I've slandered him - in what way? Is there anything untrue that I have said about him?
It was Dr. Scott who first pointed out: the acceptance of Darwinism is a penalty from God for denying Him credit as Creator.
This is explains why a theory with no evidence is accepted.
Ray
That is your mighty argument refuting evolution?! Projection and "holy wrath" nonsense?! No evidence, simply a bare assertion based on multiple false premises, including that the ToE is a punishment (if punishments regularly help develop cures for diseases, please punish me some more!), that all those who accept the ToE also deny "god" credit, and that there is no evidence for evolution?
You've got to be kidding me. No wonder your paper has never been finished, Ray.
I guess I was wrong in saying that you either had nothing or were a delusional zealot. You're both.

When you know you're going to wake up in three days, dying is not a sacrifice. It's a painful inconvenience.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 178 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 02-07-2008 7:53 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

Organicmachination
Member (Idle past 5709 days)
Posts: 105
From: Pullman, WA, USA
Joined: 12-30-2007


Message 180 of 305 (454615)
02-07-2008 8:09 PM
Reply to: Message 164 by Cold Foreign Object
02-07-2008 5:27 PM


Wrong!
The first amendment of the Constitution of the United States, written by Thomas Jefferson himself, a Deist, and signed by 39 of our other Founding Fathers, also Deist or Christian, expressly forbids the interference of the Church into matters of the state. It's not the federal judges who said Creationism couldn't be taught in schools, it was our Founding Fathers themselves.
If you ignore this post, we will all assume that you have conceded this point.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 02-07-2008 5:27 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

Replies to this message:
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