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Author Topic:   Trolls and Trolling
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 1 of 37 (455147)
02-10-2008 10:05 PM


Internet troll - Wikipedia
quote:
An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, with the intention of baiting other users into an emotional response. [1]
Others expanded the term to include the practice of playing a seriously misinformed or deluded user, even in newsgroups where one was not a regular; these were often attempts at humor rather than provocation. In such contexts, the noun troll usually referred to an act of trolling, rather than to the author.
Recently, the word troll is also frequently used as a synonym for flamebait, even though the two words have distinct meanings.
Experienced participants in online forums know that the most effective way to discourage a troll is usually to ignore him or her, because responding encourages a true troll to continue disruptive posts ” hence the often-seen warning "Please do not feed the troll".
Frequently, someone who has been labelled a troll by a group may seek to redeem their reputation by discrediting their opponents, for example by claiming that other members of the group are closed-minded, conspirators, or trolls themselves.
An example of this last kind of behavior can be seen HERE and HERE.
In my experience trolls are defined by any one of four behaviors:
(1) posting in a manner designed to elicit a flame response or getting one to lose your cool. This can include being obscene or seeming to be extremely obtuse about even the simplest things (like what Δ means in a formula).
(2) posting in a manner designed to disrupt the discussion - going off topic, posting large amounts of irrelevant things, usually done in spam like intensity, plastering messages onto all threads. Such messages often include gross language and elements of (1) above.
(3) changing topic titles (doesn't work here) so that people are confused about where threads went, usually combined with (2) above.
(4) using an ID that mimics that of another user and then insulting other users hoping they will flame the mimicked user. This is done by using things like v-v (vv)instead of w and r-n (rn) instead of m, of lowercase L for upper case i, zero for capital o etc. Some such substitutions work better in some fonts than others, and being able to control your display font is one way to identify these. They also work better when people aren't expecting them, and read the names quickly (0perasinger vs Operasinger). Experienced users choose names that are immune to such manipulations.
If you think someone is a troll then
Do Not Feed the Troll
This is the only tried and tested, effective method for dealing with trolls. On boards that are not monitored (yes virginia they do exist) it is the only way to get rid of them. Even on monitored boards it can reduce the number of reappearances (Arnen?)
Enjoy.
Edited by RAZD, : clarity
Edited by RAZD, : added example

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by molbiogirl, posted 02-10-2008 10:43 PM RAZD has replied
 Message 3 by pelican, posted 02-10-2008 10:52 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied
 Message 9 by Taz, posted 02-12-2008 12:32 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied
 Message 14 by Hill Billy, posted 02-12-2008 2:24 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 4 of 37 (455159)
02-10-2008 11:23 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by molbiogirl
02-10-2008 10:43 PM


Yes, I had a bit of a chuckle reading that one (see message). I also figured "Heinrik" as a troll when the level of information requested reached a ridiculous level of obtuseness ("can you write that formula out in words?").
Others have noticed as well. It's a matter of experience I guess.
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 5 of 37 (455161)
02-10-2008 11:33 PM


bump for Trixie
I decided to start this thread when I read your post
http://EvC Forum: Transitional Forms -->EvC Forum: Transitional Forms
It seems we have at least one troll around.
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Trixie, posted 02-11-2008 6:20 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 17 of 37 (455588)
02-12-2008 10:59 PM


bump for bluejay
the Report Problem Posts thread is not one for discussions, so I started this one to discuss trolling issues.
This may not be the right place to report this, but I think the thread "Evolutionary superiority" is page after page of trolling (I refer specifically to nearly every message by paula rose and Hill Billy in the last two pages, and many earlier posts by the same people).
I agree with Zippy Adminnemooseus:
Right now, I say "If you don't want to participate in an act of stupidity, then don't participate in that act of stupidity". Or something like that.
Don't feed the trolls.
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by nator, posted 02-12-2008 11:20 PM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 20 of 37 (455684)
02-13-2008 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by nator
02-12-2008 11:20 PM


civil disobedience should serve a purpose
EvC is so much better now. It is so great.
I fully support Percy in his wish to improve the level of debate on his forum. Dealing with trolls is one way to do that.
We have lots and lots of posts from hill billy and paula rose now, when just a few weeks ago we had lots of posts from Ringo and jar.
One of the issues that Percy had was people carrying grudges from one thread to another, and you had to be an oldtimer to then know what is going on. One way to clear the air is to ban everyone that did that and the ones that were targets, start fresh in other words with "new" people (or new incarnations of old people).
There were also a lot of chit-chat posts and complaints, posts that are no better than troll posts. I like the streamlined system.
I think the standard is pretty easy: keep your posts on topic, support your debate with additional information when needed, don't add to problems.
How else can I protest the suspension (speaking of "acts of stupidity") of so many excellent posters in the name of "making EvC better"?
Beat your head against the wall: at least it will feel better when you stop.
The suspension of people has been pretty irrelevant in the history of the board, imho, and the use of new\alternative user IDs has been tacitly tolerated by many (simple, whatever, the twins, as well as our newcomers).
Feeding the trolls means just descending to their level and turning into one yourself, hardly a valuable position to attain.
Conversely if there were a dearth of constructive conversation and commentary on various topics, such as the Grand Canyon from the Bottom up, then an argument could be made for inviting old members back.
What do you want to accomplish?
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by nator, posted 02-12-2008 11:20 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by nator, posted 02-13-2008 12:52 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied
 Message 22 by Trixie, posted 02-13-2008 4:13 PM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 23 of 37 (455758)
02-13-2008 5:05 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Trixie
02-13-2008 4:13 PM


Re: civil disobedience should serve a purpose
I've never disagreed with oyu in the past, but I totally disagree with what you say here
Good.
You may think the standard is pretty easy, but it seems to me that many of our "non-evolutionist" posters are not willing or able to do this and they are not being sanctioned.
The standard has always been lower for the creationists. Percy has also drawn a distinction between moderation on science threads and places like coffeehouse, where pretty much anything goes. Most of the posts by the newcomers have been in the coffeehouse arena. JohnFulton is doing an interesting job with global cooling, but he is presenting information and not just opinion.
At the same time, many of us old-timers are trying to carry on with business as usual, yet we continually hit our head against a brick wall of dishonest debating.
Such as never producing an argument FOR ID? But you know (and I know and they know) that there is not an argument that can be provided, that the sheet of the talking points regarding this issue was omitted in the original plan to attack education through politics. CTD and Berreta aren't able to produce evidence of something that has not been provided in the first place. Don't you thing asking for that is like asking a rhetorical question?
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Trixie, posted 02-13-2008 4:13 PM Trixie has not replied

Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 37 of 37 (821826)
10-13-2017 7:49 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by Phat
10-12-2017 9:00 PM


Re: Whats The Difference?
Do they crave attention or do they simply like watching other people get angry at them?
Don't know what motivates them.
I agree with Coyote that crank is more likely, given the amount of effort he has put into creating is wiki pages to use for external support, building his own microcosm.
There might be an element of cognitive dissonance here, where the lack of external support is compensated by building this false microcosm as a cocoon provides refuge from reality. Like someone having their own blog to spread their word and where they control what facts are used and what facts are ignored.
Curiously, I was also thinking Loony Of The Week would be appropriate.
Enjoy
Edited by RAZD, : lnk
Edited by RAZD, : added

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Phat, posted 10-12-2017 9:00 PM Phat has not replied

  
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