Your spiritual/paranormal experience(s)

I didn't ask why babies die. I specifically asked why it is a miracle attributed to your God that you survived thanks to the doctor being there when thousands of babies are born only to live in pain for all of their short lives and die in agony. Why not? If you didn't die when you were born due to the fact that your doctor just happened to know what to do, why can we not attribute God's absence to those cases where others weren't so lucky? Or His malevolence or at the very least His indifference? Again, I wasn't asking why people die when they do. My question was very specific.But, now I have another. If everyone dies and everyone has a time to die, why is it such a "miracle" that you are here? Wouldn't it have just been your time to go? What is so miraculous about having the opportunity to die at a later date? Then how do you know that God helped you? If you don't know the mechanics and can't even hazard a guess and have no evidence that He did, then how can you "know" that it was God. Or anything at all? I don't.

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"You are metaphysicians. You can prove anything by metaphysics; and having done so, every metaphysician can prove every other metaphysician wrong--to his own satisfaction. You are anarchists in the realm of thought. And you are mad cosmos-makers. Each of you dwells in a cosmos of his own making, created out of his own fancies and desires. You do not know the real world in which you live, and your thinking has no place in the real world except in so far as it is phenomena of mental aberration." -The Iron Heel by Jack London"Hazards exist that are not marked" - some bar in Chelsea

Okay Jaderis. The reason I believe it is such a miracle I lived is, that I could have died then. I say that we all go at our time that we need to go (unless God changes that). But, God can keep someone alive if he feels the need to. He could keep someone alive longer than he wants them to be. Why? I don't know.How do I know it was God that helped me stay alive? I have faith.The reason that it was such a miracle to me is because the doctor wasn't even supposed to be in that day. He came in to check on one of his patients because they requested to talk to him. He heard the choas that was going on because of my condition and he was, for some reason, the only one that knew how to treat me.Also, I don't see why you guys are asking me about what I believe is a miracle. I believe it was a miracle and that God kept me alive. If you don't believe that, then that's fine.To me it sounds like you are trying to get me to say it wasn't a miracle and that it just happened by chance. I feel that you are trying to get me to believe what you believe. I don't appriciate that (if that is what you're doing)

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"For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved"- John 3:17If God didn't create the universe, then how did it just get here?

We're not trying to get you to believe it wasn't a miracle. We just don't understand the mentality that you have.Read his latest post and his example of a thousand men running across a mine field and that 10 men made it through. Now, apply that to all the babies that die agonizing deaths versus the babies that happened to be at the right place at the right time.

Somewhat disappointingly, I have never had an experience that I could call supernatural or paranormal. I would however, like to share an experience I once had that I think might have been interpreted as paranormal, by one of a less sceptical bent.Walking through a wood (actually a conifer plantation) with some friends once, one of my companions suddenly exclaimed "Look, a Church!". It seemed a trifle unlikely, so I turned to see what he was so excited about. He was pointing into the trees, on one side of the path. "Do you see it?" he asked. I saw nothing.
"Come and look from here." he said, so I moved to where he had just been standing and looked in the direction he indicated. And lo! A church appeared, as if from nowhere.
It appeared to be a perfect little country church, its door right in front of me, its walls covered in ivy.
Of course it was just a visual illusion. The sides of the church were formed by two trees. Two more trees, further back, stood behind and between these trees, forming the illusion of a door. (These being plantation trees, they were all lined up in perfect file) The roof was suggested by two fallen trees, propped against one another, at an angle. The ivy (which was real) filled in enough of the gaps to give the illusion of an ivy-covered wall. The whole effect was quite striking. (Anyone who wants to speculate that we had consumed large quantities of mind-altering chemicals before seeing this is free to draw their own conclusion; I could not possibly comment.)
My other friend took a look, from the "sweet spot", and he too saw the church. Naturally, we were rather pleased with this novelty, and proceeded to compare details, specifically the locations of windows. Our details seemed to tally. It seemed that we were all seeing the same illusion, or at least strikingly similar ones. Like classic visual illusion pictures, it was possible to look at the same image and see trees one moment and a church the next.
The reason I'm telling you this is because I wonder what a person who was more susceptible to supernatural or divine explanations would make of this experience, especially if they had specifically Christian leanings (the church looked like a distinctly Christian church). I could have taken the sudden apparent vision of a church as being "A Sign" to mend my wicked ways. It was after all, an explicitly religious image. I might have taken it as a religious experience and fallen to my knees, an instant convert.
What we actually did was marvel at the strangeness of it for a while and then go back about our business (such as it was).
My opinion is that people who want to see signs and portents will find them. If I had been looking for a sign, even subconsciously, I would have eagerly attached undue significance to what was no more than a picture painted in the mind's eye, from random objects. So far, the experiences mentioned in this thread seem similar; unusual events given undue significance by wishful thinking.

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Mutate and Survive

I had an experience once that I suppose could conceivably qualify as spiritual.I was sitting in bed, late one night, when I, for lack of a better phrase, saw everything. My mind felt like it had suddenly managed to put all the pieces together and see exactly what the universe was.I stopped screaming eventually.

Is that why your eyes are doing that spooky wiggle?

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Mutate and Survive

Right. I gathered.My question is why do feel that was a miracle if we all have to go at some time? Ok. Let me tell you a little bit about myself and what I think. I don't believe in fate or miracles or luck in the conventional senses of the word. I lack the vocabulary to describe such happenings beyond coincidence because we don't really have words to describe such things without the connotation of some divine or supernatural hand behind it. Some people appear to be "lucky." Many others are not.That aside, I feel that we all have to create our own purpose in this life. I have to decide what to do with the time that I have here on this Earth. What I decide has a lot to do with what I have been through and what I have learned.So, my question to you, how is that different than saying that your God kept you alive for a reason that you do not know? If you don't know the reason why, then you have to discover it and/or create it (which I feel is the same thing).You may feel that you have the purpose to serve God or something to that affect, but you have chosen that, have you not? You and I may choose to do the same things, but you will say that you are doing them for God and I will say that I am doing them for the good of those who inhabit this Earth with me and for myself. That is a part of your purpose that you have created for yourself because you do not know God's plan for you. I don't think I have a plan, I just do what I think is right so that I and those around me can have a good life while they are here.Sorry..this is getting OT. I'll stop. Again, I ask how this is attributable to your conception of God?I'm not saying it is not (because I can't), but I want to know how you know. I am asking because I want to know. Because I want to know the difference between you being kept alive and the thousands of babies who are not.Let me tell you a story.I have a little sister who more than likely should have never been born. Her mother (my step-mother) had a duplicate uterus which almost always causes a miscarriage. Her mother also had a very small frame and a horrible back injury which should have prevented her from carrying to viability. My sister was born more than two months premature. She weighed just over a pound when she was born. She had no other complications, but had she been born a decade or two earlier, she would have died.Do I attribute that to God? No, I attribute that to science and the fact that my step-mother took the necessary precautions in order to try to deliver a healthy baby.Had I been a theist of almost any stripe, I would more than likely have attributed this "miracle" to my God. I would have ignored the fact that premature babies die every day in areas where they don't have access to the kind of medical care my sister had. I would have ignored the fact that mothers with unusual defects die giving birth (and their babies along with them) all the time. But I do realize that my sister is alive because of the care she and her mother received. That is not a "miracle." That is just a coincidence of the right place at the right time (in history). I thank all of the scientists and doctors who have made it possible for her to be here. Not God. I don't see how he has anything to do with the human achievement that allowed my sister to be alive. I am not trying to get you to say anything. I am trying to get you to really think about why you attribute these miracles to your conceptualization of God. And I am trying to get your definition of "miracle" in light of the fact that there are millions of kids who were not so lucky as you.You can believe whatever you want to believe. I just want to know why you believe the way you do (and possibly find out if you know why you believe the way you do).

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"You are metaphysicians. You can prove anything by metaphysics; and having done so, every metaphysician can prove every other metaphysician wrong--to his own satisfaction. You are anarchists in the realm of thought. And you are mad cosmos-makers. Each of you dwells in a cosmos of his own making, created out of his own fancies and desires. You do not know the real world in which you live, and your thinking has no place in the real world except in so far as it is phenomena of mental aberration." -The Iron Heel by Jack London"Hazards exist that are not marked" - some bar in Chelsea

So I was warned about how I would found a cause and lead humanity into a brave new world but would be tragically killed in a car accident in 2012 which would be necessary to complete the transition by the murdered spirit of the (then still living) blues legend John Lee Hooker.I saw a port glass not only survive the impact of reinforced concrete but also smash the concrete too.I've turned water into pinkish warm water and I've healed sicknesses and injury. I've gained information about emotive events through psychometry, communed with the elder witness of universal knowledge, several deities, seen the entirety of existence and been in the ineffable presence of a benevelont omnipresent pan-creator. I didn't just limit my communication to deities,ghosts, and knowledge spirits: but also with people's pets.And I've probably not even scratched the surface with this list. And I believed every single one of them entirely. It's no wonder I'm an atheist now, eh?

Well, some people see the virgin or Jesus in a toast, and they claim that it's the appearance of Mary or Jesus. But I think there's a lot of superstition (superstitions are irrational beliefs IMO) linked to a fanatical worship of such "appearances" - it's a very Catholic thing I would say. They immediately think that they have to worship or pay a visit to the appearance (like on a tree or on a window), but it's really just a coincidence of shapes looking like figures; just like the plantation trees that happen to look like a church.If as a non-believer, you found it strange and very surprising, then obviously religious people and superstitious people would find it strange too. But I am sure you went to check out what it really was, and you realized it was just an assortment of vegetation; then that's the logical explanation and there's nothing supernatural or paranormal about it.Anyway, I believe that when God wants to convince you of something, or answer your prayers he makes it clear.For e.g., when I was very young my parents divorced. I was living with my dad, but I was praying every night to God that my mom would come back. I was like 6/7 years old. And then 1 or 2 years later they remarried. So I thought that God had answered my prayer.

When at a golf course I tee'd up and hit the ball off the side of the the driver, the ball hit a tree ten feet away and then came straight back to my head.There is no way to this day that I can see how I would of had enough time to move my head to avoid getting hit.But I had plenty of time even though I had no time because It was as if time near stood still in that instant of time.What I remember to this day was the instant the ball hit the tree everything around me near stopped and I found I saw the ball coming toward my head in slow motion thus I found that I had more than enough time to move my head.Its my belief that God knew that ball would seriously injure me so he gave me more time, by slowing time!
Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.

Hi DtD, Yeah, this morning I found the face of Richard Dawkins in a grilled cheese sandwich, but I was hungry, so I ate it. It's not just Catholics. In my home town of Leicester, we have twice* borne witness to the miraculous appearance of the name off Allah in peoples groceries. Once in an aubergine (Allah seems to like aubergines) and once in a scrap of meat. Click here to see the wonder! (I'm afraid that the picture is upside down, sorry)
On this page, you can find many more miraculous photo's. My favourite is the one on Mars. Unfortunately, given that Allah's name is written like this; I'm not very impressed. All it takes is a wiggle and a few lines. Some people are just desperate for a miracle I suppose. Well, I'm glad it worked out for you and your folks, but when I was a kid and my parents divorced, they didn't get back together. Do you really think that it was because I didn't pray? Did God punish me for not praying, or just neglect to reward me?
Wouldn't it be more sensible to suppose that your having got what you prayed for was just a co-incidence, like my tree-church?*AbE - Whilst googling, I also found a reference to a miracluous Allah-egg, right here in Leicester. We're truly very lucky.Edited by Granny Magda, : fixed Db's, doubled-up textEdited by Granny Magda, : No reason given.

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Mutate and Survive

Let me first say what I think your comment tells about your belief or lack thereof. You seem to have a wrong view on Christianity. I have never heard someone getting punished for not praying/reading the Bible/attending church etc...If it was the case I would be punished a lot then, and so will the rest of humanity.
You should read the New Testament (it's quite a short read but a lot to ponder about) to have a better understanding of who Jesus was and what he said, because in the end He is the ultimate reference on God the Father. Jesus did perform miracles, like walking on water. Maybe you can call on a physical coincidence, but you can't blame people to call it a miracle since obviously walking on water is physically impossible, as far as we know.It's not like the re-uniting of my parents, but at least God answered my prayers, and he must have worked my mother's heart out (she's the one that left) or something like that, I don't know. But then it's not fundamental to me whether or not it's a miracle. The greatest miracle to me was the change of my heart.The God from the Bible doesn't necessarily rewards or punish, this would be a faith based on works, which Christianity is not. He will punish those who have disobeyed his commands and who will persist disobeying, and who will not acknowledge him as the Creator God. A lot of people know that God exist, but don't want to worship Him, instead they prefer Lucifer (who is according to the Bible the ruler of this world).

Hi again DtD,
I take it from your reply that you do not believe that I was being punished for my lack of prayer/belief when my parents split up. So I can only assume that you believe that you were rewarded for your prayer. If so, this begs some uncomfortable questions. Why was your prayer answered when so many people, many with problems much more serious than yours have their prayers apparently ignored? Why were the prayers of so many Jews in Auschwitz not answered; their need was greater than yours. Why do Christians so often assume that anyone who doesn't share their belief must be ignorant of the Bible? I have read the Bible. I wasn't very impressed. Physical coincidence? That is not my position. My position is simply that the "walking on water" event never occurred. The story is just that, a story. Showing me a story about a miracle is not the same as showing me a miracle. Nothing you describe is beyond the realm of everyday possibility. There is no need to resort to the miraculous to explain it. Your mother simply changed her mind. I actually think that it is rather patronising to her to believe that god changed her mind. She has her own mind.
Your change of heart is no miracle. People change their minds. It happens every day. What is so strange about that? So how do you interpret this quote, from Revelations;

quote:

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20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

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I'm sorry but that is just a paranoid fantasy. Who worships Lucifer? The Satanists? They are just a tiny collection of idiots. They are not representative of the majority of non-Christians, nor could anyone represent such a diverse group.

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Mutate and Survive

Its too bad the ball missed your head. It might have knocked some sense into you I get almost every time something is flying at my head. The wierd part is that its almost like the slow motion occurs after the event. Like it all hapens at regular speed but then right afterwards, its seems like the previous events just happened in slow motion.

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Another cool thing like that is when someone throws something at you real quick when your not paying attention and then you notice is, like, mid-flight and your arm just shots out and you catch the damned thing wihout even thinking about it.In high school when we used to sit in a circle and pass lighters around, it would happen occasionally that someone would beam one to someone else and they would catch it before they realized that they were moving.We had a word to describe it: "Jedi"As in, "Dude... that was so Jedi".

Yea, I find it funny, too, but how do you know it is just a "coincidence of shapes?"Why could it not have been God coming to them or confirming their belief?Maybe all those "superstitious Catholics" might have needed some kind of crazy visual confirmation of their beliefs in order to believe and be saved?Who are you to say?Are their God/Jesus/etc hallucinations less real than yours? How do you prove it?

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"You are metaphysicians. You can prove anything by metaphysics; and having done so, every metaphysician can prove every other metaphysician wrong--to his own satisfaction. You are anarchists in the realm of thought. And you are mad cosmos-makers. Each of you dwells in a cosmos of his own making, created out of his own fancies and desires. You do not know the real world in which you live, and your thinking has no place in the real world except in so far as it is phenomena of mental aberration." -The Iron Heel by Jack London"Hazards exist that are not marked" - some bar in Chelsea