Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,806 Year: 3,063/9,624 Month: 908/1,588 Week: 91/223 Day: 2/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   How does God make this justice happen?
willietdog
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 61 (456776)
02-20-2008 1:39 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Greatest I am
02-18-2008 9:27 AM


Re: The Pied Piper Of Believers
quote:
If Jesus is God then how can He say that we have to go through Him to get to God. Sounds stupid does it not?
Jesus never said that we have to go through him to get to God.
"I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Light. No one comes to the FATHER except through me."
Jesus is a part of God, sort of Gods voice, a messenger. He is even described as being "The Word" in Genesis. Through Jesus you can get to the father, AKA the big guy upstairs.
quote:
As to all the supernatural mumbo jumbo.
God has a hard enough time showing us His philosophy without having snakes, fish, angels and demons cluttering up reality and speaking to us.
If God wanted us to believe in such miracles then He would have left an irrefutable one for us to ponder. Wouldn’t you if you had the power? I think anyone would for the proof that so many search for.
I get really upset as to that side of what the average church goer beleives.
quote:
God exists and if we are in His image, and we are, then all that He knows we can understand. He tells us this in Genesis. To be as Gods, knowing good and evil.
It is His desire to teach us. No mysteries allowed as lazy minded fundamentalists think.
You are absolutely right. People tend to mistake Maricles with Magic. God does not do magic, that is why he has not done something that is irrefutable. everything can be explained naturally. even a king must follow the rules of his own kingdom.
quote:
You wrote
“You will never get a group of people...particularly believers...to be able to prove God to you.”
You are correct here. There is only one proof and those that seek will find it. Ask and it shall be given, comes to mind.
I asked the right way and I have received. God is real but most Christians and others have no clue to His perfection and do not allow Him this fundamental characteristic.
They believe in a limited God where He has no limits.
Although in my bible study I have found hints that God must follow the rules of his kingdom (AKA the laws of physics) The above is also true. For every rule God has planned a loop hole. If you think about it with enough knowledge and resources nothing is impossible. God has planned each and every maricle he will ever do and invented a way to do it. he has infinite knowledge and infinite resources and has created the loop holes to make it work. this also means that anything he can do we can do given the same knowledge/resources.
It says in the bible Genesis 11:5 "But the LORD came down to see the city and the tower that the men were building. 6 The LORD said, 'If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. 7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.'"
I don't however find where you get the idea that the God of the Bible is a "genocidal maniac". You talk as though you only read the book of genesis and maybe exodus. God always had a reason to do what he did in the bible. Really we were lucky he didn't just execute Adam and Eve for sinning in the first place. as for the flood he realizes his mistake in this and plans on destroying the world to make up for it because the world of that time was almost entirely evil. It was his punishment and his judgment on the world.
quote:
“ 3) Having known these things, why do you keep picking on believers as if they were lab rats? I for one will not attempt to logically define God for in so doing, I limit my understanding of Him. It is not good for my belief.”
I do not (know these things) the way you do. If you cannot logically define God then how can anyone believe your illogical position. It is dumb to try to sell an illogical idea.
As to the Christian rats, I try to convert them to a God that is a winner and perfect.
Not the loser that the Bible portrays. A God that cannot get out of Heaven without flaws and evil. A God that brings this evil to earth and pits it against an innocent Eve. A God that has failed mankind and instead of killing only two in the beginning waits for millions to be on earth and then kills all but eight in a genocidal flood all in the name of Love.
The God of the Bible is not portrayed as a loser. He wiped out the worlds population in a massive flood. Get on his bad side and you better believe you wont be calling him a looser when you get a lightning bolt down your throat. God ALWAYS wins and will have the ultimate victory in the end times as described in revelation.
As for Eve and the snake, God did not introduce Satan into the world, Satan came in, God simply allowed him to come in expecting Eve to say "No, get away from me evil Satan." But she failed and sinned.
Also just think of what you are saying when you said he should have killed the first 2 instead of all those people. He gave EVERYONE a chance, if he had done what you said we wouldn't exist. Those evil people got what God believed they deserved, And because he did we can be here to make a choice ourselves. If he hadn't the faith would have been lost forever and no one would ever know God.
Anyway the point I'm trying to make is you need to understand the difference between a just God delivering his judgment and sentence upon a sinful people, and a "Genocidal Maniac" The God you are describing is the God of the Bible. A perfect, no limits, wants to bring heaven on earth God. But he has to punish those who are against him. But at the same time is gracious enough to forgive those who believe in his son, who he sent to be a savior for us because he loved us.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Greatest I am, posted 02-18-2008 9:27 AM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Greatest I am, posted 02-20-2008 8:54 AM willietdog has replied

  
willietdog
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 61 (457547)
02-23-2008 11:44 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Greatest I am
02-20-2008 8:54 AM


Re: The Pied Piper Of Believers
quote:
You wrote
“Jesus never said that we have to go through him to get to God.
"I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Light. No one comes to the FATHER except through me."
You were doing so well then the above contradicts itself.
Those two quotes are not contradictory. Jesus is GOD, the FATHER is also GOD, so is the holy spirit. but they are separate. it is a concept i can not begin to describe or understand.
I was saying Jesus is not the way to GOD but to the FATHER, or basically the judge.
"realized his mistake"
I couldn't think of a better word. but it is not a literal mistake. more of a negative thing that God knew would happen as a result but chose to not interfere and later "corrected".
quote:
He could not get out of heaven without creating an evil entity called Satan.
He could not get us started properly with Adam and eve becoming evil thus casting them out.
He could only find 8 good souls and sent a flood killing millions including innocent children and babies.
#1 and #2.) Satan was an angel that chose to rebel. God allows things he creates to make choices, but he does punish him. God then allowed man which he created to choose between him or Satan.
#3.) Not his fault everyone else didn't believe.
Finally. HOW IS ANY OF THAT HIS FAULT. The only problem God has is with his creations who are all inferior to him are rebels, AND THEN HE'S STUCK HAVING TO FIX EVERYTHING.
"because he loved us"
he didn't kill us because he loved us. he loved us, but because we were rebellious he had to kill us.
Edited by willietdog, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Greatest I am, posted 02-20-2008 8:54 AM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by Rahvin, posted 02-24-2008 1:05 AM willietdog has replied
 Message 17 by Greatest I am, posted 02-24-2008 9:34 AM willietdog has replied

  
willietdog
Inactive Member


Message 18 of 61 (457837)
02-25-2008 6:53 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Rahvin
02-24-2008 1:05 AM


Re: The Pied Piper Of Believers
"I love her, but because she talked back, I had to slap her across the face."
Actually, Rahvin, you provided the perfect example, even if you didn't mean too. Here's another.
Some guy is caught speeding. He is given a fine and goes to court over it. The judge is this kids father. He says, "Son, I tell you what I'll do, by law I must fine you x amount, but, because I'm your father, I'll pay it for you, IF you are sorry for what you did." If he said "I'm not sorry." he must pay a fine. That is the example for a non-Christian. Only in God's case, the penalty is death. If the son says he's sorry, the price is paid. Jesus paid our price when he died for us. Being the world was plunged into sin from the initial sin of one perfect man (Adam), the death of one perfect man (Jesus) paid for the sin.
The person you call a victim is not a victim, but a criminal. We as humans give the death sentence to criminals, but do we blame the judge. you can blame the "victim" because it was their fault. They committed the crime, they refused the offer for salvation, what else is there to do but punish them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Rahvin, posted 02-24-2008 1:05 AM Rahvin has not replied

  
willietdog
Inactive Member


Message 19 of 61 (457840)
02-25-2008 7:01 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Greatest I am
02-24-2008 9:34 AM


Re: The Pied Piper Of Believers
Greatest I am writes:
Not what a God should or would do.
There is no justification for genocide.
Regards
DL
God can punish people however he feels like it. God is God, he gave you life if he feels like it he can take it away. Sin=Death In the end God is the one that decides when you die. Some times he decides he's going to end many peoples life at the same time. Genocide is a human concept. To God we are just individuals and death is just the passing on to a new place.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Greatest I am, posted 02-24-2008 9:34 AM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Greatest I am, posted 02-26-2008 10:28 AM willietdog has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024