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Author Topic:   Religion v Spirituality
pelican
Member (Idle past 4985 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 109 of 161 (451832)
01-28-2008 7:57 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by Admin
01-28-2008 10:13 AM


Re: Bump fo dameeva.
Who is your other account? Let me know and I'll merge your accounts together. You should also tell me which account's settings (account name, password, email, etc.) you want to survive the merge process. You can reply in this thread.
A "bump" post is neutral. It's meant to call a thread or post to someone's attention who might have missed it. It's been a standard approach with on-line discussion boards almost since their inception, and is certainly at least 10 years old.
Thanks for your response. RE-bumping. My issue was having my post dismissed by it being referred to as a 'bump' post. It clearly was not!
There have been so many disrespectful, ignorant, attacking, dismissive, condescending, patronizing responses that this 'bump' excuse to dismiss me was the last straw. I finally spat the dummy.
I tried to get "their attention" by showing I understood "their meaning" by drawing "their attention" to my many, straight in your face, "bumps." But did they get it that I got it? NO.
After 'bumping' my way around the forum I've had another response explaining to me how I misunderstand the meaning. The only one this person saw was the one directly addressed to them.
It seems that many who frequent this forum have no intention of debating or discussing an issue of contention. The same old pattern emerges of 'pack of wolves gang up on underdog,' much to their amusement. I have just seen this happen with Hill Billy. His first time and he was hounded out and not only by members but admin too.
I find the behaviour on this forum to be not much better than primitive, childish in fact. When this behaviour is exibited in adults, it can and does become dangerous. No one sees this except the scapegoats and they have no chance.
This forum is a community just like any other and it becomes hostile to outsiders who are in disagreement, just like any other.
However, I do see some great minds. I just think it is a pity they are so narrow and absorbed in themselves and displaying their 'intelligence' like strutting peacocks.
RE: Other account: The behaviour on this forum was the reason I created another identity in the first place! I felt very alone. I really did not think I could pull it off. I thought these brilliant minds would have rumbled me. You would not be aware of it either if I had not discovered it was against the rule.
I have used these two identities for several months and not one person has been aware enough to spot the identical identities that were blantantly obvious to an open mind. I am not clever enough to play two different characters but it appears clever enough to fool a lot of clever people.
I severely doubt anyone else will even read this post, as it is only addressed to you. If by chance someone does, they will jump on a point to attack and start all over again. Yawn, you clever people are so predictable. Dameeva is retiring.
BUT if you don't mind, I believe one identity is within the rules and I prefer to keep this anonymous as I still want to play with the other kids. Thanks.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Admin, posted 01-28-2008 10:13 AM Admin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by Trixie, posted 01-28-2008 8:22 PM pelican has replied
 Message 111 by Admin, posted 01-28-2008 8:33 PM pelican has not replied

  
pelican
Member (Idle past 4985 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 112 of 161 (451876)
01-28-2008 11:42 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by Trixie
01-28-2008 8:22 PM


Re: Bump fo dameeva.
Sometimes we can lose track of what threads we are posting in and forget to check for replies. I'm grateful if someone posts a "Bump for Trixie" because
1. It brings to my attention a thread I'd forgortten to check
2. It means that someone might be interested in what I have to say
I thought everyone was notified by email. Aren't you?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by Trixie, posted 01-28-2008 8:22 PM Trixie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by Trixie, posted 01-29-2008 6:38 AM pelican has replied

  
pelican
Member (Idle past 4985 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 114 of 161 (451910)
01-29-2008 7:06 AM
Reply to: Message 113 by Trixie
01-29-2008 6:38 AM


Re: E-mail notification
(over a single 24 hour period I received 342 e-mails, only 15 of which weren't spam)
Bloody hell! So how does this BUMP mail remind you when it really only stays at the top for a short while and also shouldn\t the bump message inform you of the post number you have missed? One last one on this because it's way off topic and I don't fancy being barred. I'll be bored shitless
Is the bump message sent to your email? I haven't had one you see.
Whoops I've just realized that I began this thread and with all the drama I forgot.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by Trixie, posted 01-29-2008 6:38 AM Trixie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 118 by Trixie, posted 01-29-2008 9:28 AM pelican has not replied

  
pelican
Member (Idle past 4985 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 115 of 161 (451912)
01-29-2008 7:30 AM
Reply to: Message 96 by Stile
01-25-2008 3:52 PM


Re: So what is it?
That's not what I learned from the physical world. The physical world only taught me that the physical world does not offer a meaning to our existance.
I said exactly the same thing but you disagree with me. I did not say there was no meaning in spirituality.
When I realized this, it was easy to realize that I could give meaning to my existance in any way I'd like. Much more freedom that way. And it's obvious that it takes much more strength to impose a righteous meaning on your own existance than it is to have it given to you from any external source.
Well maybe you jsu hit the nail right on the head. That could well be the meaning of life.
Are you able to unblock this expansion somehow? Are you able to show how to be more aware of any misconceptions? Or can you identify any of these awareness-blocking misconceptions?
I am preparing a topic to show the misconceptions some have with E=MC2 so we will see.
Are you able to provide one? What is it? You seem to be very hesitant to expand on giving any information. Is there a problem with sharing this information?
Actually yes. It has taken me many years of painful experiences to reach the point at where I understand the real nature of spirituality. I don't wish to re-experience the painful emotions by rabbiting on about things people don't have a clue about for nothing.
However, I am willing to answer any genuine questions that may arise.
Is this what your 'down to earth' spiritual existance does? Does it remove your desire to help others? Or maybe it reduces your freedom to only answering direct questions? I hope this message will suffice.
It certainly has. In truth it has increased my desire to help, but up til now (and including this forum) my ideas have antagonized people beyond belief. I have been pummled!
So now I try to tread a little more tentatively and wait until I am asked.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by Stile, posted 01-25-2008 3:52 PM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by Stile, posted 01-29-2008 10:11 AM pelican has replied

  
pelican
Member (Idle past 4985 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 117 of 161 (451927)
01-29-2008 9:26 AM
Reply to: Message 116 by Granny Magda
01-29-2008 8:02 AM


Re: Still No Useful Definition of Spirituality
The Free Dictionary writes:
spir·i·tu·al
adj.
1. Of, relating to, consisting of, or having the nature of spirit; not tangible or material.
2. Of, concerned with, or affecting the soul.
3. Of, from, or relating to God; deific.
4. Of or belonging to a church or religion; sacred.
5. Relating to or having the nature of spirits or a spirit; supernatural.
Spirit, a. The vital principle or animating force within living beings.
b. Incorporeal consciousness.
2. The soul, considered as departing from the body of a person at death.
3. Spirit The Holy Spirit.
4. A supernatural being, as:
a. An angel or a demon.
b. A being inhabiting or embodying a particular place, object, or natural phenomenon.
c. A fairy or sprite.
If we put the first definition of spiritual and the first definition of spirit together, neither of them contain the supernatural.
So in my own words, my definition of 'spirituality' is a non-physical entity that is the energy which connects and permeates all living things.
I believe this energy is felt by us all, directed by us all and changes form as, and through us, individually and collectively.
If you could come up with a better less ambiguous title I would be glad to use it but I doubt I would inspire any interest. I have to work with what I've got. regards

This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by Granny Magda, posted 01-29-2008 8:02 AM Granny Magda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 120 by Granny Magda, posted 01-29-2008 10:13 AM pelican has replied
 Message 123 by Larni, posted 01-29-2008 11:28 AM pelican has not replied
 Message 124 by Larni, posted 01-29-2008 11:29 AM pelican has not replied

  
pelican
Member (Idle past 4985 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 121 of 161 (451971)
01-29-2008 11:00 AM
Reply to: Message 119 by Stile
01-29-2008 10:11 AM


Re: So, again, what is it?
You're missing my point. I'm not talking about a meaning in spirituality either. I'm talking about a meaning in the physical world.
Sorry Stile, I know you were not talking about a spiritual meaning. I was saying that because I do believe there is a spiritual meaning to life and I didn't want to be misunderstood as has happened again.
I'm saying there certainly is a physical meaning to our existance, it's just not provided to us by the physical world itself.
What 'physical meaning to our existence' do you mean? How come it is not provided to us?
Are you able to provide one? What is it?
I believe in a spirituality that isn't in a supernatural form and neither is it solid. It is an energy form that we cannot detect in a physical form, although we have produced this energy by splitting the atom. It is an energy that creates and permeates all living things. It can become any form, including mass (E=MC2) when the conditions of the experiment are met. The connection to this energy is "spirituality"
I don't understand what E=MC2 has to do with it, but if you meant you're preparing a new thread to discuss all the questions I've asked (along with everyone elses), then I'll wait for that.
Another misunderstanding here. The topic is about MISCONCEPTIONS and you have no need to wait. regards

This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by Stile, posted 01-29-2008 10:11 AM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 125 by Stile, posted 01-29-2008 12:56 PM pelican has replied

  
pelican
Member (Idle past 4985 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 122 of 161 (451980)
01-29-2008 11:15 AM
Reply to: Message 120 by Granny Magda
01-29-2008 10:13 AM


Re: Still No Useful Definition of Spirituality
Until then, I think it is just more woo-woo.
Magda, please don't start that again.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by Granny Magda, posted 01-29-2008 10:13 AM Granny Magda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 127 by Granny Magda, posted 01-30-2008 11:14 AM pelican has replied

  
pelican
Member (Idle past 4985 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 126 of 161 (452246)
01-29-2008 8:23 PM
Reply to: Message 125 by Stile
01-29-2008 12:56 PM


Re: So, again, what is it?
By 'physical meaning to our existence', I mean pretty much any meaning we can come up with. For example "I want to have kids and teach them to be kind, gentle people" is a physical meaning to our existence. Or "I want to be the best ice-cream salesman in the country" is a physical meaning to our existence.
Ah yes, Like a job, climbing mount everest, retirement at 50. Anything in the material world.
But... all the energy we produced by splitting the atom is physical energy. What do you mean?
Do you mean that this energy is a physical energy, in that it is measurable and quantifiable and identifiable? In this case it would have a specific name.
By "we cannot detect in a physical form", do you mean we just have no way to detect it right now? Or that it's impossible to ever detect? That is, is it something that is part of the physcial world, and we just don't know it yet, or is it something that will never, ever be physical in any way?
We know this energy is already there and yes, it is a part of the physical world that as yet we are only aware of in destructive form. Einstein's theory of everything was intended for the greater good but by using his theory in reverse, it became destructive. However that same energy is in all things appearing/contained in different life forms.
I believe we, as individuals and collectively, possess this energy. It is in connecting with this energy that will lift us to another realm. Hence, my definition of 'down to earth spirituality'.
I read somewhere that a master is not the one with all the answers but the one with all the questions. Thanks for your great questions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by Stile, posted 01-29-2008 12:56 PM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 130 by Stile, posted 01-31-2008 9:10 AM pelican has replied

  
pelican
Member (Idle past 4985 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 128 of 161 (452585)
01-30-2008 7:12 PM
Reply to: Message 127 by Granny Magda
01-30-2008 11:14 AM


Re: Still No Useful Definition of Spirituality
larni writes:
Can I refer you to your thread about how every one else is wrong about E=MC^2?
If you were just right you would shut the fuck up about that particualr issue but you go on and on and on.
Your comments here highlight the position of a hypocrit.
magda writes:
If you wish to avoid accusations of mysticism, then I suggest that you come out and explain exactly what this much-vaunted "energy" actually is. If you cannot demonstrate that it is real, then you are engaging in mysticism.
I agree with Larni, what you are describing is "The Force". It's just fiction, a fantasy idea that appeals to you.
Your preconceived notions about who I am and what I am saying coupled with your preconceived notions of the subject at hand are blocking my ideas before I begin. These make it terribly difficult for me to communicate with both of you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by Granny Magda, posted 01-30-2008 11:14 AM Granny Magda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 129 by Granny Magda, posted 01-31-2008 6:49 AM pelican has not replied

  
pelican
Member (Idle past 4985 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 131 of 161 (457346)
02-22-2008 7:14 PM
Reply to: Message 130 by Stile
01-31-2008 9:10 AM


Re: Internal Energy
I'm afraid I don't have the education required to continue this line of thought where I'd like it to go. I really don't know too much about energy and relativity and mass and such. But, are you saying there's some energy in an atomic explosion that is not accounted for in some way? I was trying to say that atomic explosions occur exactly as we'ed expect them to. That is, all energy and mass components are accounted for (measured and quantifiable). Are you saying I'm wrong? If you are saying I'm wrong, can you explain to me what's being missed?
Hi Stile, I don't have the scientific background either and although we always associate energy with science, this energy I am referring to is within the human being. The energy is in the form of beliefs, thoughts, emotions and actions. I believe the source/force is our whole consciousness within the individual.
It is being investigated in some areas, e.g I saw an experiment connecting bad feelings to extreme behaviour in a documentary that I can't remember the name of. It was on discovery channel. It is coming to light that our beliefs, thoughts and feelings are creating out reality, both individually and collectively.
I know this from personal experience. regards

This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by Stile, posted 01-31-2008 9:10 AM Stile has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 132 by Granny Magda, posted 02-23-2008 12:07 AM pelican has replied
 Message 136 by Larni, posted 02-23-2008 11:58 AM pelican has replied

  
pelican
Member (Idle past 4985 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 133 of 161 (457405)
02-23-2008 8:44 AM
Reply to: Message 132 by Granny Magda
02-23-2008 12:07 AM


Re: Internal Energy
Can you tell me what a Jedi is? It's a genuine question as I truly do not know. I could make a guess but I could be wrong.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by Granny Magda, posted 02-23-2008 12:07 AM Granny Magda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 134 by Granny Magda, posted 02-23-2008 10:37 AM pelican has replied

  
pelican
Member (Idle past 4985 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 135 of 161 (457414)
02-23-2008 11:15 AM
Reply to: Message 134 by Granny Magda
02-23-2008 10:37 AM


Re: Internal Energy
The Jedis are intelligent beings (that is, not necessarily humans) who have a special link to The Force, which is described as an energy field created by life, that casts a power over all matter and energy in the Universe (an entity similar to the Chinese concept of Qi, the "Great Whole of Life"). A Jedi is a regular organic being, for all the aspects of his/her existence, with the sole exception of this bond to The Force. This bond makes the being to have umprecedent talents above those given by his organic nature, talents that supersede those expected by the social and technical level of the Republic portrayed in the story. The Jedi is not a superbeing in the regular comprehension of the term (such as a superhero or a deity), but a person that can be compelled to get connected to a universal channel of energy and knowledge, from which he can get supernatural performance in movement, reflexes, strength, etc.; the Jedi can foresee near-ocurring events, so he can act, and react, not only on reflexes or instinct but on knowledge of the immediate future. Thus, the Jedi is not a superpowered being, but rather a "Force-driven" being.
The Force is also described as a "something" that, however powerful, cannot escape from a rule of the Universe: there is balance in everything. The Jedi Knights use the Force to perform good actions, but it eventually arises that they use the "good" version of the Force. For there is an "evil" version of it as well. Provided that the Force is created by life, it is heavily influenced by the emotions of the living beings, and the good or luminous side of the Force (mentioned plainly as The Force within the story) is fed by love, friendship, courage and the like; whereas the evil or Dark Side of the Force (mentioned as the latter) is fed by anger, fear, hatred and the like. The Jedi, being living beings, are affected by their negative emotions, and a substantial part of their training involves making them aware of their inner evil, in order to vanquish it.
Thanks. This is great stuff. Well, they do say science fiction comes true. I remember the first landing on the moon movie where the female wore high heels and the male was in a suit and tie. lol.
Maybe scientology is the true religion, going off the rumours I've heard of their god being a spaceman, of course. I don't believe in spacemen or women. I do believe there is no true religion and no true spirituality. All there is, is us! There is nothing else we can be certain of. Why do we search everywhere else? Isn't it possible that we are exactly as the jedi are described?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by Granny Magda, posted 02-23-2008 10:37 AM Granny Magda has not replied

  
pelican
Member (Idle past 4985 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 137 of 161 (457536)
02-23-2008 10:50 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by Larni
02-23-2008 11:58 AM


Re: Internal Energy
I used to see these aspects of self as just a way of experiencing life, just who we are. No real meaning. However, I can personally testify all of my energies from this inside source of belief systems has created my life experiences. I have no doubt of this. The latest belief to crumble within me is the one of christianity.
I was raised a christian with christian morals and values which had the effect of me never being good enough and fear of not being good enough. The christian in me robbed me of my dreams and my life. Powerful? I would say so. Well, now I say to jesus "I was always good enough, you pillock". lol
paula writes:
OP I heard this saying recently :that religion is for those who are afraid of going to hell and spirituality is for those who have already been.
I am in the 2nd category.
Edited by pelican, : No reason given.
Edited by pelican, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by Larni, posted 02-23-2008 11:58 AM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 139 by Larni, posted 02-24-2008 5:21 AM pelican has replied

  
pelican
Member (Idle past 4985 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 140 of 161 (457566)
02-24-2008 6:36 AM
Reply to: Message 139 by Larni
02-24-2008 5:21 AM


Re: Internal Energy
The point of my story was to show how my ingrained beliefs shaped and or created my life experiences. Just using the one of christianity as an example, I emulated the persona of jesus and did not follow my dreams for myself. It was a powerful driving force that led me to lead a life I did not want.
Although this belief is not felt as an energy, it was certainly very powerful. This belief was instrumental in suppression of my own emotions that I now feel very strongly. I am experiencing feelings that I have never experienced before without the physical stimulation. These feelings I have now and the beliefs I have now are shaping and/or creating new experiences in my life. My concept is very simple, probably too simple to be taken seriously but I know it is true for me. I know we are all a product of our experiences as I was. I fell big time and am now a work in progress on building a new, original belief system that stands alone. regards

This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by Larni, posted 02-24-2008 5:21 AM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 141 by Larni, posted 02-24-2008 6:54 AM pelican has replied
 Message 143 by Granny Magda, posted 02-24-2008 7:18 AM pelican has not replied

  
pelican
Member (Idle past 4985 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 144 of 161 (457577)
02-24-2008 7:34 AM
Reply to: Message 141 by Larni
02-24-2008 6:54 AM


Re: Internal Energy
yes I understand what you are saying and I agree with your perception from your life experiences.
What I haven't said is that these beliefs were in my 'subconscious'. I had no awareness that these beliefs which formed my motivations/attitudes and ego. I was so engaged in the material/physical world and was 'being myself' I did not know they were even there.
About 10yrs ago, when 'being myself' no longer worked for me, I crashed. It is through this period of my life that I know I wasn't 'being me'. I was moulded into never being good enough because the bar of christianity was too high.
The energy behind those beliefs, emotions and thoughts had the power to change me and my life. I know I have the power to do it again i.e change me and change my life, but this time in full awareness and from the inside out.
Edited by pelican, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by Larni, posted 02-24-2008 6:54 AM Larni has not replied

  
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