Pit bulls suck� Is it in their genes?

I permanently suspended HKidd234 - Is there a reason this forum should have someone like that as a member?Well, in the context of this topic, maybe? But I'm going to let the suspension stay in place.I certainly wouldn't want to be living next door to HKidd234.Unlike most moderation messages, I grant permission to reply to this one.Adminnemooseus

I hate to say this, but it really is the owner's fault in about 80-90% of these cases of agressive dogs. Before, start jumping up and down yelling at the monitor that these owners brought their dogs to dog training classes and all of that, sit down, shutup, and read more.No amount of dog training could compensate for a dog's need to socialize. Dogs, like people, are social animal. I've too often seen cases where the owners paid hundreds of dollars to have their dogs perfectly trained only to see them badly misbehave around other dogs.Ask yourself this question. Did your kids learn how to socialize with other kids from socializing with other kids or from some socializing class that he had? Why expect differently from your dogs?Being a dog lover, trainer, and companion, my biggest advice is make sure your dogs meet other dogs and socialize in their dogly manner. Find a local dog park near you and regularly bring your dogs to it. I always tell people that it's best to aim for the following goal: have your dog meet a thousand people and a thousand other dogs before the age of 1. It gets progressively harder the later you start doing this.A few years back, I took in a dog that was given up by her owner. She was the meanest dog I had ever met. In fact, she bit me several times. She also attacked my dogs the moment she came into the house. She was already 4 when I took her in. A couple years later under my care, she was a completely different dog. She became downright playful with other dogs. The little girl that moved in next door couldn't get enough of her. My secret was I did little more than very regularly taking her out to the dog parks near where I live and exposing her to many other dogs and people.So, to wrap this up. You lock your dog inside the house almost 24/7. Your dog doesn't see anyone but you and possibly one other person for years and years. Your dog's had absolutely no exposure to other dogs. How the hell do you think he'll react when he is finally exposed to other people or dogs? Socialize them, for god's sake. Isolating your child from the outside world is a form of child abuse. Isolating your dog from the outside world is a form of animal abuse.

Hey Taz...I have to admit to being a little surprised at seeing this thread opened again...and also a little surprised at your reply (but not quite as surprised as I was to HKidd234 ).For example, when you say:Are you making a generalized statement or are you actually accusing me of treating my dog like this?Same with:Again, is this addressed at me, or is this more of a generalized statement to any dog owner following this thread?Cuz...well...I have to admit that the way I read it...you seem to be accusing me of treating my dog very poorly. If you are indeed speaking to me specifically, and if for some reason or another you actually think I'd treat my dog so piss poor, then I have to say that you can fuck off. If I'm mistaken, and if your reply is meant as a response to dog owners in general, then I apologize.

Dear HKidd234:Thank you your heartfelt and timely response to a 2 1/2 year old thread. While I appreciate your concern for my well being and the well being of my dog, I nonetheless suggest that you go seek some psychiatric help, as you seem to have a bit of an anger management issue. Good luck.FliesOnly

Just generalized statement. You have to understand, I'm an animal lover. I take in animal that have misbehaved and work with them. In other words, I know first hand how these animal become antisocial. Take my word for it, 80-90% of the time is the owner's fault.Some people even go as far as locking their dogs in their cages almost 12 hours a day and then finally let them out for 1 bathroom break before putting them in their cages again. They pay hundreds of dollars to have their dogs trained. Then they ask why their dogs still misbehave around other dogs and other people. I was speaking in general terms. A lot of pet owners don't realize that their dog need a social life, too. They think that their dogs are these robotic things that will just sleep all day in the cage if they have to.To be fair, my brother is one of these people. One time he went on a road trip for 2 days. He locked both his dogs in their very small cage. By small, I mean the cage was just big enough for the two of them to lie still.Someone told him that the best way to train your dog is to lock him in a cage all day and only let him out for about an hour a day. He actually believed this. Well, he still believes this no matter how much I try to convince him otherwise.People need to understand that dogs are biological social creatures, too. Depends. Do you lock your dog(s) in his cage 8-12 hours a day like so many people nowadays?Dogs misbehave because people don't allow them to have some kind of outlet for their energy. Of course they will misbehave during the rare occasions that they are around other dogs and other people.Added by edit.I only read the OP and that's it. If I hit a nerve somewhere, it was completely accidental and I apologize.Edited by Taz, : No reason given.

Hey Taz:Well, you'll be happy to know that we (my wife and I) are not "those" type of people. I would not be surprised if it were even higher. However, having said that let me also add that some breeds are more prone to be aggressive than others. Pit bulls are one of those breeds, and while it is true that you can train them to behave otherwise, the point I was trying to make was that is left untrained, they will resort to their breeding...which is to fight. They're called pit bulls for a reason. My wife and I both did graduate work in Animal Behavior. Not that we're canine experts...but we do understand quite a bit more about behavior than you average joe on the street. Our dog is very social and "meets" other dogs quite often. He has never shown any aggression, and likely never will. Absolutely not. We have never locked him in any sort of cage, and never will. When we travel, we have a friend that runs a "dog boarding house", and he or his wife actually come to our house two-three times a day to take our dog out to pee, to walk with him, and to play with him.And when we're at work for the day, he has complete free run of the house...except for the bathroom and the laundry room (he has a "thing" for dirty undies. Personally, I find it gross, but then again, he licks his butt too. ). No need to apologize, your explanation straightened it out for me.

I absolutely agree that there are certain breeds that are more prone to be agressive than others. But how to tame them is where I differ than most animal trainers out there.I currently have 3 permanent pet dogs. One of them is a karen terrier mix. I got him when he was about 4 years old. He had spent the last 4 years being tied outside in the backyard. The people that got him as a puppy thought it was a cute idea but then quickly got tired of him. Let me tell you, after being tied out in the back for that long with no human and animal contact, he was not exactly that social. Those people finally thought it was time to give him up. Seeing how this dog had absolutely no chance of being adopted again because of his anti-social behavior, I took him in temporarily to see if I could work with him.After I brought him home, for the first couple weeks or so he snapped at me everytime I got close to him. My wife was horrified by him. My self-proclaimed dog expert brother came by once and told me "what'd you expect? He's a terrier and terriers are snappy like that. It's just the way they are." It took me a while, but finally I was able to gain his trust.After only 1 year in our care, he is now the most adorable thing. He spends most of his evening time either on my lap or my wife's lap. In fact, he is now so sweet that we have decided to keep him permanently. Because he is so small and cuddly, he is the neighbor's kids' favorite dog to play.That said, I'm still trying to potty train him. He pees inside the house occasionally simply because he never learned that peeing inside the house was a no-no the first 4 years of his life. He's getting better now, actually. He only does it when he absolutely has to, so we just try to time him.I suppose I shouldn't to be talking about pit bulls. I haven't worked with a pit bull before. What breed(s) do you have?All of mine are mix breeds. That's nothing compared to what I've seen some dogs do... but I'm not going to go into that.Added by edit.The point is animal trainers typically don't recommend to people to socialize their pets. They typically tell people that taking their animal to training classes is the only thing they need to do to get their pets to behave. Socialize them, for gods sake. Even an occasional evening walk is better than none.Edited by Taz, : No reason given.

Taz: And you are most likely the exception to the rule. My problem basically lies with both the breed (pit bulls) and the owners. Most encounters I have had with pit bull owners have been of the stereotypical "red neck", "stoned hippie", or "I'm so fucking cool because I have a pit bull" variety. None of them positive experiences. None of them in any way involving people that knew how, or cared how, to train any dog, let alone something as potentially dangerous as a pit bull. That's the problem of the owner.Now, as for the breed itself, one must keep in mind that they were bred to fight...be it "bulls" or other dogs. And they were (and are) bred to kill. Can they be tamed? Perhaps. But it is always "hidden" in their genes somewhere to attack and kill. To me, this makes them a risk not worth having. Perhaps, this can be bred out of them...but as of now, I do not believe this is the case. Plus, if it is "bred" out of them, would they technically still be pit bulls?Look, it's not as if I want to hunt down and kill all the pit bulls. I love dogs. I think they're the greatest companion animals out there. Hell, my wife and I prefer dogs to kids (we have one dog and no kids...and it will remain as such). I just don't see the "need" for a pit bull (as they exist now. Like I said, if their aggressive nature can be bred out of them, then that changes the whole situation. I just don't think the type of people that want a pit bull would want to see their aggressive nature disappear. I am admittedly biased because a majority of my encounters with pit bulls have been with those dogs that have owners that do indeed want their dogs to be "guard dogs"). We have one dog. A male Brittany. My wife had Brittanies growing up. We will always have male Brittanies...one at a time.When we met (and after we got married) she had a Brittany, and it was my first experience with the breed. I cannot say enough wonderful things about that dog. Anyway, he died (in my wife's arms) soon after we were married. We eventually bought a house out in the country and got a another Brittany. He too, is such a great dog. Living out in the boonies is great for him. He gets WAY more than just your standard walk. We have hundreds of wooded acres on which to roam. He is, needless to say, a very happy dog.

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1. Low coat maintenance. They have very short sleek coats. Shedding is minimal. They don't need brushing, unless you've been in tick country, and you can bathe them yourself; NO PROFESSIONAL GROOMING BILLS.
2. Loyal. Extremely loyal dogs: aside from the emotional satisfaction this gives the owner, Pits have less of a tendency to wander or run away.

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3. Affectionate. They want to cuddle all the time. They want to sleep right next to you in bed. [CAUTION: one thing that can turn a Pit squirrilly is keeping it in the yard and giving it only minimal human contact. Some breeds do fine like this, but Pits react like emotionally abused children, and become anti-social and unpredictable.]

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4. Stamina. These dogs can go on ten mile hikes, camp out, and hike back the next day. They can run with you when you're on a bicycle. It's really hard to tire a Pit out, so if you want a dog for a companion on outdoor activities, even mountain biking, this is a good breed to consider.

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5. All Weather Dogs. Pits don't tend to overheat or catch chills like dogs bred for a certain climate.

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6. Not Voracious. You can usually free-feed a Pit, and not have a "dinner time," because they won't overeat like some breeds when given unlimited food. They also are easy to train to leave your food alone.

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7. Trainable. Pits are active puppies, so their training sometimes gets off to a slow start, but by the end of their second year, they are very obedient dogs. When you think about it, a fighting dog that will listen to its owner, and stop fighting when told to, even in the high heat of battle, is a very obedient dog.

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8. Good Average Size. You can expect a female pit to be 40-60 lbs, and a male to be 50-70. This is a good solid "big" dog, not a little yappy dog, without being enormous.

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9. Not Barkers. Although your Pit will defend you if you are attacked, and will defend your home, they don't bark at every car that goes by, or every set of footsteps in the hallway. They are one of few large breeds that make good apartment dogs.

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Note: I stole this from some other forum

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They are just good dogs all around. Their violence comes from who/how they are raised and combined with news sensationalism in that ANY dog that attacks a person will be labelled a "Pit Bull", they just have a bad reputaion but are not bad dogs. You should take a ride through East St. Louis some time. All the pit bulls there are owned by ghetto-assed thugs.One of my best friends (not from E.Saint), who is an excellent dog owner, has a pit bull. She is the sweetest dog I have ever met. She's very tame and docile and just an all around good dog.

This is not entirely true. Look, this is a rather old thread re-opened (not by me), so I really don't want to go back and link to some of the sites included earlier. Pit bulls are not aggressive solely due to their upbringing. They were once bred to actually fight bulls (for sport) and now are bred to fight and kill other dogs. It's what they do. It's a genetic component of the breed. To have them NOT attack other dogs, you need to train them. And yet one of these wonderful dogs attacked and tried to kill my dog...completely unprovoked. My, what a great dog. I don't doubt that she might be a docile, all around good dog. With hope, se will remain so throughout her entire life. Stranger things have happened, after all. However, here's the thing. Pit bulls are bred to attack and kill other dogs. It's in their genes.Maybe this will help. My dog (a Brittany) is a wonderful bird dog. That's what he does...he points and retrieves birds (and for some reason..he loves to point mice and voles as well). If I don't want him to go after a bird, I need to train him. However, it's still a genetic thing for him. In other words, he only avoids the birds because he is well trained. However, despite this training, there are times when he absolutely cannot contain himself (maybe he got "birdie", but my wife and I did not notice) and he "snaps". What happens? Well, he chases a bird...no big deal really.Now let's look at a pit bull. Despite great training...what if something sets him off? Or, what if (as is probably often the case) the dog received little, if any, training? Well, if a pit bull "snaps"...Do you see what I'm saying? Now, is it possible that some pit bulls are indeed docile and friendly? Certainly. Are they docile because of their own unique genetics? Who knows. If so, then perhaps given enough breeding cycles, Pit bulls can become non-aggressive. But then, is that really what most people want? Somehow I doubt it.

I'm not convinced that pit bulls have some violence gene that has to be trained to be turned off, otherwise they're homocidal maniacs. I also don't really believe that any dogs can "snap" and go on a crazy attack spree. Some individuals maybe, but not a whole breed. Sure, that one dog wasn't a great dog, but that doesn't mean the whole breed is shot.

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I just ran into a mexican that was an idiot. My, what a great race.

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That doesn't fly either.... I just don't think that all pit bull's default state of mind is that of violence.Sure, they were bred to be good fighting dogs, but they have to be trained to fight. You don't just get a pit bull pup and automatically have a fighting dog.

Hi CS, Actually, what has unfortunately happened is a small but prevalent group of people have pre-selected the pit bulls that were the most aggressive. They roll the pups and young dogs and keep the ones that are the most agressive and cull the non agressive ones.Unfortunately, the whole breed has been corrupted. I realize thats not the same as saying "every pit bull is a bad dog," but the line is completely out of the control of responsible breeders and owners. These pits are in fact genetically aggressive fighting dogs.My buddy has a border collie. The very first day of puppy class, she instinctively herded the other puppies into a corner. No one had to teach her this behavior, it was genetically encoded in the same way that aggressiveness towards other dogs is encoded in pits.While MOST of the pit bull incidents could probably be mitigated by responsible ownership, why keep a human created failed breed around that is essentially a ticking time bomb? We wouldn't perpetuate a breed of labor horse that was genetically predisposed to have faulty knee joints, so why should an aggressively wired dog breed be cultivated?

Because keeping them is the default, how do we go about losing them?Plus, people like pit bulls and want to have them, which is reason enough.Therein lies the problem. We can't go around killing them all and people are going to continue to breed them. If people continued to breed the faulty-kneed labor horses because they just like to have something to feed a carrot too, how are you going to get rid of them?

This where we disagree. Simply outlaw their breeding and require existing bitches to be spayed. Their numbers will diminish quickly enough.

Fuck that.That's too nazi for my taste. Its like gun control. People will ask for reasons that justify owning a gun. The only reason that I need is that I want to have one.Now, when it gets to a point where it becomes a danger to society, I could justify outlawing it.I don't think we are "there" yet with pitbulls. Rocket launchers? sure.