Problems with Mutation and the Evolution of the Sexes

Okay, I'm going to follow along with you who believe in evolution. We start as single cell organisms. How cute. We can self replicate. Oh joy. Now, moving along, someone mutates into a multi cell organism. He becomes the social loner. But then he starts self replicating. Then we got a second species on our hands. It turns out that multi celled organisms mutate again, becoming slightly more complex. That mutated outcast self replicates and makes more of itself. This process continues for a while, changing as the Earth's crust cools down...But here's where we run into a snag. When does the self replicating stop? If something mutates into something that can't self replicate, what happens? Something turns into a guy and is ready to start the mating process... but he has no mate. He's a mutation, a rare mutation that happens every so often.Evolution tells us that not only did something evolve into a guy, but at the SAME time and SAME place, a thing of the SAME species evolved into an organism that perfectly matched as an opposite of the male, aka a female.How can that happen? Seriously. If, by some statistically absurd chance, that happened, wouldn't natural selection crush that eventually? Self replication, a process seen as a basic process found in the 'beginning', should increase chances of survival. And with its increase chance of survival, how come no animal can do that today? I consider it a genetically superior trait, something that should still be around today in things besides bacteria.I think there actually might be a certain animal that can do that, actually. If you find it, check for something. God says that each animal was created with the ability to reproduce. Check to see if self replication is necessary. If it is a type of species that lives alone for its own survival.As you can tell, I am Pro-Creation in view, and I would appreciate it if you would post your view (for creation/evolution) before you reply.Edited by Admin, : Modify title.Edited by Lyston, : No reason given.

Alright, I'm just going to take this as it comes. I'm not saying that there is leaps from one thing to another. I've thought about this, so don't think that I am just rushing to conclusions here.What I thought about is this... Obviously, in the Evolutionist perspective, things were a form of Hermaphrodite - something with the ability to self reproduce. I want to know how things went from splitting down the middle went into the possession of reproductive organs. My main focus here is the creation of genders, not the sex cycle. And, please believe that I'm not just knocking your suggestion away, but I fail to realize how snail anatomy is relevant. I can see a vague link on how they don't have specific genders, but they still qualify as an actual Hermaphrodite in gender - something that contains both reproductive organs. To me, this is a way to known my 'enemy' as you say. I'm not here to battle, or to try to persuade people, or even to teach. As I said, I'm here for answers on my own. I must say, you are getting somewhere with the snail thing. I cannot answer my own question, however, so a follow up would be much appreciated. (I did look at the wikipedia thing on sex cycle, and it wasn't much help.)

Genesis 1:25: God made all sorts of wild animals, livestock, and small animals, each able to reproduce more of its own kind. And God saw that it was good. The first five books, known as Pentateuch, were written by Moses, the only man said to have had a face-to-face relationship with God. I have no knowledge of reading or hearing about "God Himself writing the Bible." But even then Moses has not seen the actual face of the Lord Almighty (in case someone wants to shout that God says that anyone who sees His face will die).You also say you only want to see "actual observable evidence" well, thing like the Big Bang or Evolution are not observable. Sure, as you can all agree, Evolution has many things that point to it being the origins of all life, but so does the Bible. I think the one most overlooked fact is that while God uses miraculous signs to display His power, he doesn't leave the world in a state of magical operation. If you look hard enough, you will surely find that everything has a way of working, from gravity to the cognitions of the human mind.

Wow, that's a long reply. I learned some things from that, most was review, you answered some of the lessor questions quite well, but overall, you missed the main point. I'm interested in the creation of genders. I know a lot (not everything, but a lot) about mutations. I do know that if you sprinkle radiation on a turtle its not going to turn 4 feet tall, learn martial arts and start fighting crime. -.-Your example of the giraffe is good, well written, and entirely irrelevant. I'm asking about the mutation into genders. The elongation of the neck is not a mutation, its a survival trait that was passed down from generation to generation, increasing as the need increased. It could have started as a mutation, but if you are saying its a mutation thing, wouldn't it keep having to mutate with each passing generation? That's not how I was taught mutation works. In my opinion for giraffe necks, I think of an example my teacher gave while giving a bones lesson. He said, if he attached a weight on your arm at a high pressure, your bone would accommodate to the weight in time and make changes necessary. The bone would reform in a way that dipped down as the body adapts to the change (this would occur in time, of course). And then, if you reproduced with this bone change, it would be passed down to your offspring. That's how I see giraffe neck elongation. The constant extension of their necks had their body make the necessary changes, and of course natural selection tooks its place in there as the giraffes who couldn't reach died out or, as you said with "survival with the fit enough", were pushed into the background as the more fit giraffes took their place (maybe even inbred and the long necks took over). I honestly can't say I know how giraffe evolution works, but that is my current understanding to it.But all that is irrelevant! That talks about survival traits, I'm asking about genders. Now if giraffes suddenly made a significant change where they grew a second head, that would be more relevant.Now That I think about it, a second head would be an appropriate example of my views on genders. One is all you need, but why would there be a creation of a second one through time? And then, for the mutated animals that DO grow a second head, why isn't that passed down and take over? I can see dozens of genetically superiorities with such a thing as two heads. It would double fighting chance (if its a fanged type animal) and double food intake, giving more time to whatever.You asked if that was my only reason for believing in Creation. Well, my answer is NO. I have many, many other reasons, but I really wanted to see the response this topic gets. As you said, I don't have all the facts of the Evolution theory, but in the same way I'm sure you don't have all the facts for the Creation theory. I'm not here to convince you that "Your wrong, I'm right!" I'm here to learn more about the Evolution view and take that in account when I think of the possibility of such a view. I am pro-creation, just as you are pro-evolution, but I simply want understanding. I would appriciate it if you came back and gave another shot in helping me understand.

It's not a pro-science Christian view, its the view of regular Christians who understand what the Bible is saying. People misinterpret that all the time. It doesn't say the Earth is the center of the universe, yet some claimed it did and burned the guy who said the Earth orbits the sun.Natural selection works, yes. Adaptation works, yes. Mutations happen, yes. Evolution? That's what we are debating. Natural selection, adaptation, and mutations are all mentioned and used to support Evolution, but they are separate. The Bible says nothing against those three things, but the conflict is the idea of Evolution as a whole.

Um, a 2000's Biologist, but, according to you, he is of course a 200 year old man who has lived through the ages.

And do you have something add/change/subtract from my old teacher's lecture on traits being passed down from parents to offspring?

You call that a screw up? He made us perfect in His eyes. But then, why haven't we evolved right? Why can't we fly and breath under water? Why only two arms when four would be more useful?If you want to play that game, answer your own side too.

This is what I was trying to say earlier. The Bible DOES NOT say that the Earth is the center of the universe, and let's not forget that it was the scientist-type people of those days that thought that the Earth was the center, not the religious. This is what I meant by misinterpreting the Bible. Um, people who believe in Allah don't follow the Bible, but nice try though. Might want to brush up in your arguments.

Again with the long replies... Meh, it's much appreciated. I got through the first half of the post before I need to leave (for the rest of the weekend). As you mentioned, and a few of you kindly pointed out, I have limited knowledge of Evolution. All I know IS what I learned in my 9th grade Biology class. Not a very healthy argumentative factor in my opinion. And, as I said in my second post but probably got drowned out, I'm here to learn, not just argue with or convince anyone.I was just wondering if you, Rahvin, could post the current beliefs of Evolution. This way I won't have my (incorrect) limited knowledge. Thanks for taking the time to post. I'll try to finish when I get back.

Before I leave, let me try to clear up some things for you guys. What I initially meant by the two heads things was that the separation of genders doesn't seem helpful (or necessary) for survival. Having two heads would seem to be more helpful than having two genders, but when it happens, it just fades and doesn't incorporate into the population.Then you started talking about how God screwed up and made us imperfect. What I meant to say is that God made us perfect in his eyes. We are not physically or mentally perfect, but in His eyes we are. I know that won't make sense to a lot of you, but that's how it is. He made us masters over all animals, birds, and fish (Gen. 1:28). As a side post, can someone also explain to me what the evolutionist theory of why humans are the dominated species in the world (like why we are smart enough to think clearly, and why we are the only ones to get that far).You also said that I contradicted myself in saying we are perfect but not "perfect". Perfect in my eyes is different than perfect in God's eyes. It's why I'm not God. That also prolly won't clear anything up, but maybe someone will understand.

I started this more as "Problems with Mutation and the Evolution of Genders". While Sexual Reproduction is involved with genders, it's not the same. Can you make the necessary name change and help bring the topic back to what I was initially interested in please?

Actually, "it" was meaning the gender mutation. On the other hand, mutation is something known to happen, not evolution. As for some evidence, how about the year counting? To me, this is something I feel is the hardest to dismiss. BC (before Christ) and AD (after death) are referring to Christ's death on the cross. It was so significant that people began counting years after it. I know people are beginning to just ignore it and are even trying to change it (or has it already changed?), but still, you can't just ignore its origins. I acknowledge that almost 2008 years ago, a man names Christ Jesus (with variating translations) died on the cross. The only way you can dismiss this (as I did before I became a believer) is to think that "yeah, a man named Jesus lived and was killed, but he wasn't special."

This is something I tried to say before I left. God didn't leave this world in 'magical operation' or unrealistic circumstances. Can't find out how gravity works? The answer is NOT "God does it!" You CAN find a way. Can't find out how heat or light gets from the sun to the Earth (going back quite a few years), the answer never was "God does it!" The answer is "God created it" or "God made a way", something that isn't relative to the problem.This is highly overlooked in many of your posts. You call him God of Gaps, but that's not how it works nor how the Bible portrays it. Yes, some people think that's how it is, but it isn't how it is. I think, and the Bible doesn't say otherwise, that for every scientific gap out there (not including Evolution for understandable reasons), there is a way it works that can be found. God left us a world to explore, and exploring it we are. Unfortunately, whispers lead people away from the path and help them start finding other ways (Evolution or... Scientology).

I had just read those comments now, two days later. I made that post long before argument (meaning more that they were there, but I hadn't read them. I responded to a post before the argument). Please look at what I replied to... actually... that might be my single "general" post. Anyways, the reference was made from something before the argument.