Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total)
7 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,776 Year: 4,033/9,624 Month: 904/974 Week: 231/286 Day: 38/109 Hour: 0/4


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   More than flesh and blood?
Hill Billy
Member (Idle past 5380 days)
Posts: 163
From: The hills
Joined: 01-26-2008


Message 10 of 62 (458675)
03-01-2008 2:35 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Larni
03-01-2008 11:23 AM


More
Larni,
I'm a good person to ask about this because I'm a cogntive behavioural therapist by trade so I would say with confidence that I have observed many emotions in clients.
Would it not be more accurate to say that you observed your clients visible or audible reactions to the emotions they felt, and not the emotions themselves?
I can't help pointing out that I find it extremely humorous that you misspelled both cognitive and behavioral.
If you could point to the unobservable part of emotion I would be delighted.
Well, how about what the individual actually feels?
Again I'm a good person for this question because I have participated in studies where my very thoughts were in fact measured.
Your very thoughts or your brain activity?
As the energy spikes in areas of the brain (be it by electrochemical exchange or spikes in metabolism) when (say) we engage in directed thought we can conclude that thoughts have an energy component and therfore mass.
Well, if that activity is the actual thought itself and not a response to that thought..
I think it is fair to say that there is more than flesh and blood, but until you can detect the non-material (directly or indirectly) you can not conclude the non-material exists.
I think the emotion itself is non-material, the reactions this emotion sets off can be observed there by detecting the non-material. Sorry but the actual emotion itself can not be verified directly, can it?

The years tell what the days never knew.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Larni, posted 03-01-2008 11:23 AM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Taz, posted 03-01-2008 3:59 PM Hill Billy has replied
 Message 14 by Woodsy, posted 03-01-2008 5:33 PM Hill Billy has not replied
 Message 19 by Larni, posted 03-02-2008 8:11 AM Hill Billy has replied

  
Hill Billy
Member (Idle past 5380 days)
Posts: 163
From: The hills
Joined: 01-26-2008


Message 13 of 62 (458696)
03-01-2008 5:18 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Taz
03-01-2008 3:59 PM


Re: More
Um, behavioural and behavioral are both correct.
OK, I wouldn't be surprised, I seem to bat about 500.

The years tell what the days never knew.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Taz, posted 03-01-2008 3:59 PM Taz has not replied

  
Hill Billy
Member (Idle past 5380 days)
Posts: 163
From: The hills
Joined: 01-26-2008


Message 43 of 62 (459870)
03-10-2008 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Larni
03-02-2008 8:11 AM


More or less?
Larni:
Thoughs physical reactions (plus the automatic thoughts associated with the physical reactions) are what are known as emotion.
Really?
Hill Billy writes:
Your very thoughts or your brain activity?
You say
My very thoughts.
Then you say :
The information and meaning of the thoughts were not measured untill they are verbalised.
Which, of course makes them NOT independently verifiable. We must take you at your word that you thought what you said you thought.
The activity is the thought and the thought is the activity.
I understand that you BELIEVE this to be true, however it remains un-verifiable.
I get that you have FAITH in a nice simple world, but this is your OPINION :
As I said 'emotion' is a description of physical sensations and thoughts: that's about as complex as it gets.
The possibility that it ain't that simple remains possible.
Science requires independent verifiability and our thoughts and feelings remain un-verifiable from an independent standpoint. You can read my words but not my mind.

The years tell what the days never knew.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Larni, posted 03-02-2008 8:11 AM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by Larni, posted 03-10-2008 1:45 PM Hill Billy has replied

  
Hill Billy
Member (Idle past 5380 days)
Posts: 163
From: The hills
Joined: 01-26-2008


Message 45 of 62 (459883)
03-10-2008 2:13 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by Larni
03-10-2008 1:45 PM


More less?
Larni.
Come on now,
me (arch materialist that I am) finally being shown that all my years of studying and researching into psychology and thinkin' an fanczy brane woik is actually a matter of Faith and Belief and Opinion.
Well I gess I shud stop lerning wright now and start preying no one else seeses throgh my hypocrasy.
does any of this apparently emotionally motivated babbling address the issue of verifiability, or the lack there of?
Oh the irony
Well......
If that is the best arguement you have you phail.
If you mean fail to motivate you to address the issue of verifiability, or the lack there of....
Phail big.
You would know.

The years tell what the days never knew.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by Larni, posted 03-10-2008 1:45 PM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by Larni, posted 03-10-2008 2:32 PM Hill Billy has not replied
 Message 47 by Taz, posted 03-10-2008 2:42 PM Hill Billy has replied
 Message 48 by Larni, posted 03-10-2008 3:03 PM Hill Billy has replied

  
Hill Billy
Member (Idle past 5380 days)
Posts: 163
From: The hills
Joined: 01-26-2008


Message 49 of 62 (459895)
03-10-2008 4:02 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by Larni
03-10-2008 3:03 PM


Re: More less?
Larni.
You said:
The activity is the thought and the thought is the activity.
I responded with:
I understand that you BELIEVE this to be true, however it remains un-verifiable.
How do you independently verify that the thought and the activity are the same thing and the only thing? We can't even independently verify what the thought was.
Dude, you have only said that my points were opinion and belief and faith.
Yes, it seems I did.
This is an unsupported assertion.
Mmm, I think I supported it. If you can't independently verify the data yet still believe the conclusion is true than that's faith, with a capitol opinion.
That's what creos say about evolution.
That's nice.
What is this great issue about verifiying thoughts you have?
It's not really such a big issue for me. That may be cause I don't actually believe that the thought and the activity are the same thing and the only thing. Of course because your thoughts remain your own ( Ok, for now.) and mine are still mine I really have no way of definitively verifying if I am correct.
Just like you.
Why is it a problem for you?
As I said, it don't really cause me much trouble but it can make a position difficult to support if that position requires independently verifiable data.

The years tell what the days never knew.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Larni, posted 03-10-2008 3:03 PM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by Larni, posted 03-10-2008 5:51 PM Hill Billy has not replied

  
Hill Billy
Member (Idle past 5380 days)
Posts: 163
From: The hills
Joined: 01-26-2008


Message 50 of 62 (459896)
03-10-2008 4:13 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Taz
03-10-2008 2:42 PM


More of this less?
I've been watching you for quite some time now. I'm especially interested in the source of your tendency to make smart-ass/wise-guy comments.
Don't take much to entertain you, does it?
If you have been following so closely you would know I have already answered this question.
What say you about the source of your wise-guy attitude?
More than once.
Keep yer stick on the ice.

The years tell what the days never knew.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Taz, posted 03-10-2008 2:42 PM Taz has not replied

  
Hill Billy
Member (Idle past 5380 days)
Posts: 163
From: The hills
Joined: 01-26-2008


Message 57 of 62 (460012)
03-11-2008 11:11 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by Taz
03-11-2008 8:50 PM


Definitions
I don't believe I've actually insulted you.
Dude! You referenced him to Kent Hovind. How do you define insult?
Speaking of definitions....
I interpret all those definitions to mean that TRUST is earned while FAITH is not earned and does not require evidence.
trust
-noun
2. confident expectation of something; hope.
How the *%$! do you earn hope?
4. a person on whom or thing on which one relies: God is my trust.
Oh, I get it, your kidding.
Right?

The years tell what the days never knew.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Taz, posted 03-11-2008 8:50 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by Taz, posted 03-11-2008 11:18 PM Hill Billy has not replied
 Message 61 by Larni, posted 03-12-2008 9:25 AM Hill Billy has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024