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Author Topic:   Is the bible the word of God or men?
pelican
Member (Idle past 4985 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 2 of 309 (429859)
10-22-2007 3:39 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by sidelined
10-13-2007 9:33 AM


Bible is no big deal
Surely as the bible is said to be inspired by god through man's thoughts, imaginations and experiences, then so is every other book.
What's the big deal? The big deal is what human's make of it.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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pelican
Member (Idle past 4985 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 6 of 309 (429976)
10-22-2007 9:09 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Force
10-22-2007 8:52 PM


Re: repost
P.S. I consider all scripture inspired by GOD but however written by man. The Bible is compiled by man and written by man. Thus the Bible is the words of man but the WORD(metaphore) of God.
Do you mean that the bible can be interpreted metaphorically rather than literally?

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 Message 5 by Force, posted 10-22-2007 8:52 PM Force has replied

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pelican
Member (Idle past 4985 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 36 of 309 (435198)
11-19-2007 6:53 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by sidelined
10-13-2007 9:33 AM


Taking god out of the bible
An objective observer may see the bible as an extraordinary brain-washing device. The book has such power over the humans, even the non-believers. Much is made of ancient mentalities. Everything that is written is through the minds of men.
All who claim to hear the word of god hear it in their minds. Every law, parable, prophesy, moral and ethic is the idea of man. If this truth could be adopted the bible would be an entirely different read.

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pelican
Member (Idle past 4985 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 231 of 309 (451497)
01-27-2008 9:03 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by sidelined
10-13-2007 9:33 AM


edited
Edited by pelican, : No reason given.

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pelican
Member (Idle past 4985 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 235 of 309 (458763)
03-02-2008 12:18 AM
Reply to: Message 232 by TheTruth
02-13-2008 9:32 PM


Re: almost
almost
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The bible says God is a spirit." there is a holy spirit part of the God trinity which includes two other entities not"spirts" persay to answer the question of is the bible God written no but it is God inspired
What makes you think the bible is inspired by god? What is so outstanding about the bible that god must be involved? I personally see no genius in the writings that I would expect off a god. I don't get it!

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 Message 232 by TheTruth, posted 02-13-2008 9:32 PM TheTruth has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 236 by TheTruth, posted 03-02-2008 8:42 PM pelican has replied

pelican
Member (Idle past 4985 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 240 of 309 (458978)
03-03-2008 4:29 AM
Reply to: Message 236 by TheTruth
03-02-2008 8:42 PM


Re: almost
Are the bible quotations you give to show genius of god, inspired by god or to show god exists?
Is there anywhere in the bible where two or more witnessed or heard god directly in the same moment?
I am not saying the bible is not inspiring and I am not saying that the lives in the bible have not been inspiring but why god? Hasn't the concept of god been an individual expression of beliefs?
The only evidence I see for the need of a creator is creation itself. Who is to say we are not the creators? And if there is a loving creator, wouldn't the greatest gift to us be to be the creators of our own existence?
Is it possible that the bible's sole intention is to draw us to this conclusion? Personally, I do believe this and I've studied human life for a very long time. It was terribly difficult to shed the ingrained perceptions I held of the bible since childhood and almost as difficult to replace with a different concept.
The bible stories now mean different things to me than they used to. I don't dispute the authenticity of the bible as evolutionists do. I only dispute/enlarge upon the interpretations and concepts of what is actually written.
E.G Many concepts of jesus' teachings are very noble and good BUT many have a devisive nature. "Love thine enemies." Who are the enemy? 'Forgive them Lord." Who are they that need forgiveness? Regards

This message is a reply to:
 Message 236 by TheTruth, posted 03-02-2008 8:42 PM TheTruth has replied

Replies to this message:
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pelican
Member (Idle past 4985 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 243 of 309 (459098)
03-03-2008 8:39 PM
Reply to: Message 241 by TheTruth
03-03-2008 6:43 PM


Re: almost
umm inspired by God. No I don't think so, not at the same time but multiple people saw Him just not at the same time.
Could it be true that muliple people pretended they saw god? Could it be possible that multiple people were out of their minds and suffering a form of mental illness? I know there are multiple people doing this today. Many claim to see, hear and converse with god. What is the difference between the authors of the bible and these people today?
In a sense your right we choose to get with the opposite sex and make children, but God ultimatly decides if the child lives or not. So yes and no.
I don't mean choose. I mean create, from start to finish. Is that so unimaginable?
"Love thine enemies." Who are the enemy? 'Forgive them Lord." Who are they that need forgiveness?
Your enemy sees you as the enemy but you don't see yourself as the enemy. The point is in "that the romans' saw jesus as the enemy. The romans did not see themselves as the enemy."
Jesus had a responsibilty to treat all of humanity as equals and he did not.

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 Message 241 by TheTruth, posted 03-03-2008 6:43 PM TheTruth has replied

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 Message 244 by TheTruth, posted 03-04-2008 2:33 PM pelican has replied

pelican
Member (Idle past 4985 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 245 of 309 (459214)
03-04-2008 7:08 PM
Reply to: Message 244 by TheTruth
03-04-2008 2:33 PM


Re: almost
yes but do multiple people imagine the same trial and execution the same way not just the bible other writings tell this story as well
I don't think the trial was IMAGINED but that is the key word. All references to god are from a single imagination and never collectively.
Your enemy sees you as the enemy but you don't see yourself as the enemy. The point is in "that the romans' saw jesus as the enemy. The romans did not see themselves as the enemy."
What's your point?
My point is that in conflict we are all enemies. We are all human beings too.
Jesus had a responsibilty to treat all of humanity as equals and he did not.
When did he not treat everyone equal? Name three times.
I am not a bible scholar, however, from an objective view I believe Jesus' perception of the human race was that of good and bad. The enemy, the thief, the betrayor, the persecutor, all labels, all from judgements of a superior nature. This is not equality. Jesus wanted equality his way.
Is this not control and manipulation of the masses in his imagined god's name? Is it possible jesus did not take responsibilty for his own mind, his own thoughts, his own beliefs and his own actions? What has a god got to do with any of this?
My observations lead me to conclude that the bible is the word of man.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 244 by TheTruth, posted 03-04-2008 2:33 PM TheTruth has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 246 by TheTruth, posted 03-04-2008 8:46 PM pelican has replied

pelican
Member (Idle past 4985 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 247 of 309 (459232)
03-04-2008 10:49 PM
Reply to: Message 246 by TheTruth
03-04-2008 8:46 PM


responsibility for ego
I don't think the trial was IMAGINED but that is the key word. All references to god are from a single imagination and never collectively.
If the trial wasn't imagined how was the defendent imagined you don't hang an imaginary man on a cross and lauh at him. It's illogical
I don't think any of it was purely imagination. These, alledgedly, are accounts given by humans. I cannot dispute that. The topic is concerned with 'is the bible written by man or god'? I think it is quite logical to think god is the imagination of the individual and the bible is purely man-made.
I am not a bible scholar either but I will say that this is a false statement
Why?
He didn't label people. He said that the enemy is the one who hates you and curses you. Besides like you pointed out He tells us to them them that hate us bless them that curse us. Not label them as bad.
The enemy is a person, not a label. If enemy describes someone who hates and curses you, why label them the enemy? They just hate you and curse you. They might have good reason to hate you and curse you.
If we truly loved and blessed the people who are deemed to be the enemy in the first place, there would be no need to hate and curse us in the first place, would there?
To name the enemy is to make an enemy because it completely dismisses them as human beings.
How do you say His thoughts were not His. That isn't possible Explain this please.
I did not say his thoughts were not his. I am saying the opposite. Jesus ascribed his beliefs and thoughts to the will of god, his father. He believed his suffering was the will of god. He believed his preachings and teachings were the will of god. He believed his death was for the greater good through the will of god. I am saying he did not take responsibility for them.
Where did jesus' beliefs come from? Where did jesus' concepts on morals and virtues come from?
I believe they came from jesus' learnings and experiences as a child. No-where else. He was taught about this mighty god just as you and I were, and his imagination and inner self took over. You could even say it was all his ego. It is very logical and possible from an objective point of view.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 246 by TheTruth, posted 03-04-2008 8:46 PM TheTruth has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 248 by TheTruth, posted 03-05-2008 9:14 PM pelican has replied

pelican
Member (Idle past 4985 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 249 of 309 (459338)
03-05-2008 11:25 PM
Reply to: Message 248 by TheTruth
03-05-2008 9:14 PM


Re: responsibility for ego
Ok your close, man did write it, but most of it was God inspired.
Ok, how do you know it was inspired by god?
Well in a perfect world no there would be no enemy. Unfortunatly we don't and there are people who become our "enemy". God/Jesus knows this and takes it into acount. Thus that verse.
You do not regard yourself as the enemy, but you are. Maybe you even started it, eg as in 'the weapons of mass destruction' that did not exist.
All of this is true, except the end. All of what he did was the will of God, but he still did them, he still took responsiblity for them.
What if he was mistaken and it was the will of the devil? Would he have followed the same instructions if he believed it to be from the devil? You can't tell me that cruxifying your child is not evil.
His beliefs morals and virtues came from Him. He is God, and not God, so the morals and beliefs came from Him the one who makes the rules. Not his childhood. If you remember back in bible class you learned, or should have, that Jesus when he was only a pre-teen. Things that they didn't know so it couldn't have been taught to Him. And does Jesus not preach humbleness? How could he let it be his ego? It is quiet leaning toward no God ect.
I agree that they came through jesus but because of his childhood expereinces, especially with his mothers' suffering and his temple learnings and his emotions [including humility] and NOT from god. His awareness and his connection to humanity. His self. His inner self. His perceptions of life. His experiences of life. He wanted it better. We all have this potential to bring in new concepts.
Jesus believed/imagined it was god. He did not accept that all he heard and felt and imagined was himself.
Yes 'no god' is where this is going. There was no need for god then and there is no need for god now.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 248 by TheTruth, posted 03-05-2008 9:14 PM TheTruth has replied

Replies to this message:
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