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Author Topic:   Is the bible the word of God or men?
TheTruth
Member (Idle past 4118 days)
Posts: 60
Joined: 02-11-2008


Message 241 of 309 (459084)
03-03-2008 6:43 PM
Reply to: Message 240 by pelican
03-03-2008 4:29 AM


Re: almost
umm inspired by God. No I don't think so, not at the same time but multiple people saw Him just not at the same time. I'm sure you're aware that there are many accounts of Jesus and his miracles, and technecly He is part of the God head 3 in one deal. So it really depends on how you look at it.

And if there is a loving creator, wouldn't the greatest gift to us be to be the creators of our own existence?

In a sense your right we choose to get with the opposite sex and make children, but God ultimatly decides if the child lives or not. So yes and no.

"Love thine enemies." Who are the enemy? 'Forgive them Lord." Who are they that need forgiveness?

The "enemy" would be anyone who does anything against us I guess. The next quote is from when Christ is on the cross dieing (right?)and they that need forgiveness would be the romans gambling over his clothes and such, mocking him, and other mean things(aka his enemy's that he said to love before he is showing you how).


"People call me strange does that make me a stranger
My best friend was born in a manger"
This message is a reply to:
 Message 240 by pelican, posted 03-03-2008 4:29 AM pelican has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 243 by pelican, posted 03-03-2008 8:39 PM TheTruth has responded

  
TheTruth
Member (Idle past 4118 days)
Posts: 60
Joined: 02-11-2008


Message 242 of 309 (459086)
03-03-2008 7:04 PM
Reply to: Message 238 by Blue Jay
03-02-2008 9:22 PM


Re: almost
There are more New Testiment ones, what I showed is only like an 1/8 of what I have. There are non-biblical proofs...
quote:

1. Abraham's descendants would have their own country
Bible passage: Genesis 15:18
Written: perhaps 1400 BC
Fulfilled: 1400 BC and in 1948
The Bible’s book of Genesis explains that about 4000 years ago, the Lord found a man who had strong faith. That man’s name was Abraham. In Genesis 12:1-3, the Lord calls out to Abraham and chooses to reward him.

In Genesis 15:18, the Lord said that Abraham’s descendants would have their own country, and that this country would be between the river of Egypt and the Euphrates River. (People sometimes call this the Promised Land.)

Genesis also explains that this promise of land to the descendants of Abraham was inherited by Abraham’s son, Isaac, and then by Abraham’s grandson, Jacob. Jacob is the father of the 12 Tribes of Israel. (This web site uses the terms Jews, Israelites, people of Israel, and Hebrews, interchangeably.)

This prophecy of nationhood has been fulfilled more than once. About 3400 years ago, the Hebrew descendants of Abraham first established Israel. The Bible’s book of Joshua explains how Joshua led the Israelites into the land that had been promised to them, as descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and established the nation of Israel.

The nation of Israel was later divided into two kingdoms, called Judah and Israel, about 2900 years ago. The kingdom of Israel lost its independence when it was conquered by Assyria about 2700 years ago. Judah lost its independence about 2600 years ago when it was conquered by Babylon.

Then, about 2000 years ago, the Romans scattered the Jews (or Israelites, or Hebrews) throughout the Roman Empire.

But, in 1948, after many Jews from around the world had returned to the land of Israel, the Jews issued a declaration of independence.

That was the first time in 2900 years that Israel was both united and independent.
- Copyright 100prophecies.org
Genesis 15:18
On that day the Lord made a covenant with Abram and said, "To your descendants I give this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the Euphrates…"

2. Jacob saw a vision of Israel's future
Bible passage: Genesis 28:10-15
Written: perhaps 1400 BC
Fulfilled: Throughout history
In Genesis 28:10-15, the Bible says that Jacob, who lived about 4000 years ago, received a vision from God about the future of his descendants (the Israelites, who today are commonly called "Jews"). The vision accurately foretold their future. Here is our summary:
1. Jacob's descendants would have Israel as their own country. (Gen. 28:13). This was fulfilled about 3400 years ago when the Israelites first established Israel.
2. The Israelites would be like dust, spreading out to the east, west, north and south. (Gen. 28:14). Throughout history, the Jews have been scattered worldwide. They are the first and only group of people to be scattered worldwide.
3. The Israelites would have a worldwide impact. (Gen. 28:14). Jews have had a tremendous worldwide impact in science, art, literature, economics, music and theology. The worldwide spread of Christianity began 2000 years ago by Jews who were followers of Jesus.
4. Jacob’s descendants would be brought back to Israel. (Gen. 28:15). This began to be fulfilled during the late 1800s when many Jews worldwide began returning to their ancient homeland. They re-established Israel's independence in 1948.
- Copyright 100prophecies.org
Genesis 28:10-15
Jacob ... had a dream in which he saw a stairway resting on the earth, with its top reaching to heaven, and the angels of God were ascending and descending on it. There above it stood the Lord, and he said: "I am the Lord, the God of your father Abraham and the God of Isaac. I will give you and your descendants the land on which you are lying. Your descendants will be like the dust of the earth, and you will spread out to the west and to the east, to the north and to the south. All peoples on earth will be blessed through you and your offspring. I am with you and will watch over you wherever you go, and I will bring you back to this land. I will not leave you until I have done what I have promised you."

3. Counting Abraham's descendants would be like counting the stars
Bible passage: Genesis 15:5
Written: perhaps 1400 BC
Fulfilled: Throughout history
In Genesis 15:5, the Bible said that Abraham would have many descendants and that counting them would be like counting the stars. The fulfillment of this prophecy is obvious. In fact it is so obvious that it can be easily overlooked:

Abraham is the only person revered by large numbers of people throughout world as being their ancestor.

He is the father of the Jewish people, as explained in the book of Genesis, through his son Isaac, and through Isaac's son Israel.

Christians become descendants of Abraham through faith (Galatians 3:29), just as Abraham became the father of many nations through faith (Genesis chapters 12-17; Romans 4:18).

And many other peoples count themselves as descendants of Abraham, through his son Ishmael.

It also should be noted that the first part of his name, "Ab," means "father," and that his name was changed by God. The reason for the change is explained in Genesis 17:5, for which the NIV translation is: No longer will you be called Abram; your name will be Abraham, for I have made you a father of many nations.
- Copyright 100prophecies.org
Genesis 15:5
He took him outside and said, "Look up at the heavens and count the stars - if indeed you can count them." Then he said to him, "So shall your offspring be."

4. The people of Israel would be scattered worldwide
Bible passage: Deuteronomy 28:64
Written: perhaps 1400 BC
Fulfilled: 721 BC, 586 BC, 70 AD, 135 AD, modern times
In Deuteronomy 28:64, the Bible said the Jews would be scattered worldwide. This prophecy has been fulfilled in detail. Take a look at the explanation of the Jewish "Diaspora," which means "scattering," from the Columbia Encyclopedia, Fifth Edition: "… by 70 A.D. Jewish communities existed in Babylonia, Syria, Egypt, Cyrene, Asia Minor, Greece, and Rome. Jews followed the Romans into Europe and from Persia and Babylonia spread as far east as China. In modern times, Jews have migrated to the Americas, South Africa, and Australia. The Jewish population of Central and Eastern Europe, until World War II the largest in the world, was decimated in the Holocaust. Despite the creation of the state of Israel in 1948, the vast majority of the Jewish people remains in the Diaspora, notably in North America, Russia, and Ukraine."
- Copyright 100prophecies.org
Deuteronomy 28:64
Then the Lord will scatter you among all nations, from one end of the earth to the other. …

5. God will never forget the children of Israel
Bible passage: Isaiah 49:13-18
Written: perhaps between 701-681 BC
Fulfilled: Throughout history
In Isaiah 49:13-18, the Lord makes it clear that even though the people of Israel are to be exiled from their land, the Lord will not forget them, and they will be brought back to their land.

Isaiah lived about 2700 years ago. At about that time, the Assyrians invaded the northern part of the land of Israel and had scattered many of the people. More than a century later, the Babylonians would do the same to the people in the southern part of the land of Israel.

Many returned after the fall of Babylon, but the Romans later exiled and scattered the people again. And many remain scattered throughout the world today. Given the exile, the scattering, and the persecutions of the past 19 centuries, it is easy to understand the sentiment of Verse 14 (NIV translation): "The LORD has forsaken me, the Lord has forgotten me."

But Verses 15 and 16 show that the Lord will never forget. In fact, it says that even if a mother could forget her child, the Lord will not forget his children, for they are "engraved" on the palms of His hands. Verses 17 and 18 show that the sons of Israel will return to Israel.

Although there has always been at least a small number of Jews living in the land of Israel, millions have returned from around the world during the past 2 centuries, allowing Israel to reclaim independence in 1948, a few thousand years since the previous time that the nation had independence.
- Copyright 100prophecies.org
Isaiah 49:13-18
Shout for joy, O heavens; rejoice, O earth; burst into song, O mountains! For the LORD comforts his people and will have compassion on his afflicted ones. But Zion said, "The LORD has forsaken me, the Lord has forgotten me." "Can a mother forget the baby at her breast and have no compassion on the child she has borne? Though she may forget, I will not forget you! See, I have engraved you on the palms of my hands; your walls are ever before me. Your sons hasten back, and those who laid you waste depart from you. Lift up your eyes and look around; all your sons gather and come to you. As surely as I live," declares the LORD, "you will wear them all as ornaments; you will put them on, like a bride.

6. The people of Israel would have a worldwide impact
Bible passage: Genesis 12:2-3
Written: perhaps 1400 BC
Fulfilled: Throughout history
In Genesis 12:2-3, and in Genesis 28:10-15, the Bible said that the descendants of Abraham and the descendants of Abraham's grandson, Jacob, would be a blessing for people worldwide. Jacob is the father of the 12 Tribes of Israel (the Jews). In 1898, Mark Twain wrote an essay for Harper's New Monthly Magazine that discussed how the Jews have had an impact on the world:

" … the Jews constitute but one percent of the human race. It suggests a nebulous dim puff of stardust lost in the blaze of the Milky Way. Properly, the Jew ought hardly to be heard of, but he is heard of, has always been heard of. He is as prominent on the planet as any other people, and his commercial importance is extravagantly out of proportion to the smallness of his bulk. His contributions to the world's list of great names in literature, science, art, music, finance, medicine, and abstruse learning are also way out of proportion to the weakness of his numbers. He has made a marvelous fight in this world, in all the ages; and had done it with his hands tied behind him. He could be vain of himself, and be excused for it. The Egyptian, the Babylonian, and the Roman followed, and made a vast noise, and they are gone. Other peoples have sprung up and held their torch high for a time, but it burned out, and they sit in twilight now, or have vanished. The Jew saw them all, beat them all… All things are mortal but the Jew; all other forces pass, but he remains. What is the secret of his immortality?"
- Copyright 100prophecies.org
Genesis 12:2-3
"I will make you into a great nation and I will bless you; I will make your name great, and you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you."

7. Israel would be partitioned by other nations
Bible passage: Joel 3:2
Written: about 400 BC
Fulfilled: 1900s
In Joel 3:2, the prophet said that the nations of the world will be judged for having scattered the people of Israel and for having "divided up" (or "parted" or "partitioned") the land of Israel. Christian scholars believe that this is a prophecy that will be fulfilled during the End Times. But portions of the prophecy already have been fulfilled. The Jews have been scattered to nations throughout the world, and the nations of the world have divided up the land of Israel. On November 29, 1947, the United Nations General Assembly approved a motion to partition the land into two separate states, one for Jewish people and another for Arab people.
- Copyright 100prophecies.org
Joel 3:2
I will gather all nations and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat. There I will enter into judgment against them concerning my inheritance, my people Israel, for they scattered my people among the nations and divided up my land.
(NOTE: "Jehoshaphat" means "the Lord judges.")

8. Israel would be restored and repopulated
Bible passage: Ezekiel 36:8-10
Written: between 593-571 BC
Fulfilled: late 1900s
In Ezekiel 36:8-10, the prophet Ezekiel said that the people of Israel would return, rebuild and repopulate their fallen cities. Ezekiel, according to the Bible, lived about 2600 years ago during the time of the Babylonian Captivity, when many Jews, including Ezekiel, were taken as captives to Babylon. After the Babylonian Captivity ended, many Jews returned to their homeland. But about 1900 years ago, the Jews again were forced into exile, this time by the Romans. However, since the late 1800s, millions of Jews have returned to their ancient homeland. And, once again, they have been rebuilding and repopulating their ancient cities. In 1948, there were about 600,000 Jews living in Israel. Today there are about 6,000,000.
- Copyright 100prophecies.org
Ezekiel 36:8-10
"`But you, O mountains of Israel, will produce branches and fruit for my people Israel, for they will soon come home. I am concerned for you and will look on you with favor; you will be plowed and sown, and I will multiply the number of people upon you, even the whole house of Israel. The towns will be inhabited and the ruins rebuilt.

9. Jesus' life was foreshadowed by the prophet Isaiah
Bible passage: Isaiah 42:1-9
Written: perhaps between 701-681 BC
Fulfilled: About 2000 years ago
In Isaiah 42:1-9, the prophet Isaiah speaks of a servant of God who will be a light to the Gentiles (non-Jews) and bring justice to the world. Christians believe that Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of this promise. Jesus' teachings govern the lives of Christians throughout the world. Some estimates claim that there are as many as 2 billion Christians worldwide. More people follow the teachings of Jesus than those of any other person in history.
- Copyright 100prophecies.org
Isaiah 42:1-9
"Here is my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen one in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him and he will bring justice to the nations. … In faithfulness he will bring forth justice; he will not falter or be discouraged till he establishes justice on earth. … "I, the Lord, have called you in righteousness; I will take hold of your hand. I will keep you and will make you to be a covenant for the people and a light for the Gentiles, to open eyes that are blind, to free captives from prison and to release from the dungeon those who sit in darkness. "I am the Lord; that is my name! I will not give my glory to another or my praise to idols. See, the former things have taken place, and new things I declare; before they spring into being I announce them to you."

10. Jesus said His words would never be forgotten
Bible passage: Luke 21:33
Written: about 30 AD
Fulfilled: At this very moment
In Luke 21:33, Jesus said that regardless of what happens to the world, His words will never be forgotten. Here we are 2000 years later and the words of Jesus are all around us: Christianity has spread to people around the world and the Bible is the world's most circulated book. Of all the people who have ever lived, can you think of a single person who could have made this claim more effectively than Jesus - that his words would never be forgotten?
- Copyright 100prophecies.org
Luke 21:33
Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

Notes: Bible verses are from the New International Version (NIV) translation.

Copyright ©1999-2008 George Konig and 100prophecies.org. All rights reserved.



Thats only the ten being fullfilled now there is 90 more I'll let you look them up. 100prohecies.org


"People call me strange does that make me a stranger
My best friend was born in a manger"
This message is a reply to:
 Message 238 by Blue Jay, posted 03-02-2008 9:22 PM Blue Jay has not yet responded

  
pelican
Member (Idle past 3239 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 243 of 309 (459098)
03-03-2008 8:39 PM
Reply to: Message 241 by TheTruth
03-03-2008 6:43 PM


Re: almost
umm inspired by God. No I don't think so, not at the same time but multiple people saw Him just not at the same time.

Could it be true that muliple people pretended they saw god? Could it be possible that multiple people were out of their minds and suffering a form of mental illness? I know there are multiple people doing this today. Many claim to see, hear and converse with god. What is the difference between the authors of the bible and these people today?

In a sense your right we choose to get with the opposite sex and make children, but God ultimatly decides if the child lives or not. So yes and no.

I don't mean choose. I mean create, from start to finish. Is that so unimaginable?

"Love thine enemies." Who are the enemy? 'Forgive them Lord." Who are they that need forgiveness?

Your enemy sees you as the enemy but you don't see yourself as the enemy. The point is in "that the romans' saw jesus as the enemy. The romans did not see themselves as the enemy."
Jesus had a responsibilty to treat all of humanity as equals and he did not.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 241 by TheTruth, posted 03-03-2008 6:43 PM TheTruth has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 244 by TheTruth, posted 03-04-2008 2:33 PM pelican has responded

TheTruth
Member (Idle past 4118 days)
Posts: 60
Joined: 02-11-2008


Message 244 of 309 (459185)
03-04-2008 2:33 PM
Reply to: Message 243 by pelican
03-03-2008 8:39 PM


Re: almost

Could it be true that muliple people pretended they saw god? Could it be possible that multiple people were out of their minds and suffering a form of mental illness? I know there are multiple people doing this today. Many claim to see, hear and converse with god. What is the difference between the authors of the bible and these people today?

yes but do multiple people imagine the same trial and execution the same way not just the bible other writings tell this story as well

Is that so unimaginable?

Yes, has it ever been done?

Your enemy sees you as the enemy but you don't see yourself as the enemy. The point is in "that the romans' saw jesus as the enemy. The romans did not see themselves as the enemy."

What's your point?

Jesus had a responsibilty to treat all of humanity as equals and he did not.

When did he not treat everyone equal? Name three times.


"People call me strange does that make me a stranger
My best friend was born in a manger"
This message is a reply to:
 Message 243 by pelican, posted 03-03-2008 8:39 PM pelican has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 245 by pelican, posted 03-04-2008 7:08 PM TheTruth has responded

  
pelican
Member (Idle past 3239 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 245 of 309 (459214)
03-04-2008 7:08 PM
Reply to: Message 244 by TheTruth
03-04-2008 2:33 PM


Re: almost
yes but do multiple people imagine the same trial and execution the same way not just the bible other writings tell this story as well

I don't think the trial was IMAGINED but that is the key word. All references to god are from a single imagination and never collectively.


Your enemy sees you as the enemy but you don't see yourself as the enemy. The point is in "that the romans' saw jesus as the enemy. The romans did not see themselves as the enemy."

What's your point?

My point is that in conflict we are all enemies. We are all human beings too.


Jesus had a responsibilty to treat all of humanity as equals and he did not.

When did he not treat everyone equal? Name three times.

I am not a bible scholar, however, from an objective view I believe Jesus' perception of the human race was that of good and bad. The enemy, the thief, the betrayor, the persecutor, all labels, all from judgements of a superior nature. This is not equality. Jesus wanted equality his way.
Is this not control and manipulation of the masses in his imagined god's name? Is it possible jesus did not take responsibilty for his own mind, his own thoughts, his own beliefs and his own actions? What has a god got to do with any of this?
My observations lead me to conclude that the bible is the word of man.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 244 by TheTruth, posted 03-04-2008 2:33 PM TheTruth has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 246 by TheTruth, posted 03-04-2008 8:46 PM pelican has responded

TheTruth
Member (Idle past 4118 days)
Posts: 60
Joined: 02-11-2008


Message 246 of 309 (459224)
03-04-2008 8:46 PM
Reply to: Message 245 by pelican
03-04-2008 7:08 PM


Re: almost

I don't think the trial was IMAGINED but that is the key word. All references to god are from a single imagination and never collectively.

If the trial wasn't imagined how was the defendent imagined you don't hang an imaginary man on a cross and lauh at him. It's illogical

I am not a bible scholar, however, from an objective view I believe Jesus' perception of the human race was that of good and bad. The enemy, the thief, the betrayor, the persecutor, all labels, all from judgements of a superior nature. This is not equality. Jesus wanted equality his way.
Is this not control and manipulation of the masses in his imagined god's name? Is it possible jesus did not take responsibilty for his own mind, his own thoughts, his own beliefs and his own actions? What has a god got to do with any of this?
My observations lead me to conclude that the bible is the word of man.

I am not a bible scholar either but I will say that this is a false statement

The enemy, the thief, the betrayor, the persecutor,

He didn't label people. He said that the enemy is the one who hates you and curses you. Besides like you pointed out He tells us to them them that hate us bless them that curse us. Not label them as bad. How do you say His thoughts were not His. That isn't possible. Explain this please.


"People call me strange does that make me a stranger
My best friend was born in a manger"
This message is a reply to:
 Message 245 by pelican, posted 03-04-2008 7:08 PM pelican has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 247 by pelican, posted 03-04-2008 10:49 PM TheTruth has responded

  
pelican
Member (Idle past 3239 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 247 of 309 (459232)
03-04-2008 10:49 PM
Reply to: Message 246 by TheTruth
03-04-2008 8:46 PM


responsibility for ego

I don't think the trial was IMAGINED but that is the key word. All references to god are from a single imagination and never collectively.

If the trial wasn't imagined how was the defendent imagined you don't hang an imaginary man on a cross and lauh at him. It's illogical

I don't think any of it was purely imagination. These, alledgedly, are accounts given by humans. I cannot dispute that. The topic is concerned with 'is the bible written by man or god'? I think it is quite logical to think god is the imagination of the individual and the bible is purely man-made.

I am not a bible scholar either but I will say that this is a false statement

Why?

He didn't label people. He said that the enemy is the one who hates you and curses you. Besides like you pointed out He tells us to them them that hate us bless them that curse us. Not label them as bad.

The enemy is a person, not a label. If enemy describes someone who hates and curses you, why label them the enemy? They just hate you and curse you. They might have good reason to hate you and curse you.
If we truly loved and blessed the people who are deemed to be the enemy in the first place, there would be no need to hate and curse us in the first place, would there?
To name the enemy is to make an enemy because it completely dismisses them as human beings.

How do you say His thoughts were not His. That isn't possible Explain this please.

I did not say his thoughts were not his. I am saying the opposite. Jesus ascribed his beliefs and thoughts to the will of god, his father. He believed his suffering was the will of god. He believed his preachings and teachings were the will of god. He believed his death was for the greater good through the will of god. I am saying he did not take responsibility for them.

Where did jesus' beliefs come from? Where did jesus' concepts on morals and virtues come from?

I believe they came from jesus' learnings and experiences as a child. No-where else. He was taught about this mighty god just as you and I were, and his imagination and inner self took over. You could even say it was all his ego. It is very logical and possible from an objective point of view.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 246 by TheTruth, posted 03-04-2008 8:46 PM TheTruth has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 248 by TheTruth, posted 03-05-2008 9:14 PM pelican has responded

TheTruth
Member (Idle past 4118 days)
Posts: 60
Joined: 02-11-2008


Message 248 of 309 (459325)
03-05-2008 9:14 PM
Reply to: Message 247 by pelican
03-04-2008 10:49 PM


Re: responsibility for ego

I don't think any of it was purely imagination. These, alledgedly, are accounts given by humans. I cannot dispute that. The topic is concerned with 'is the bible written by man or god'? I think it is quite logical to think god is the imagination of the individual and the bible is purely man-made.

Ok your close, man did write it, but most of it was God inspired.

The enemy is a person, not a label. If enemy describes someone who hates and curses you, why label them the enemy? They just hate you and curse you. They might have good reason to hate you and curse you.
If we truly loved and blessed the people who are deemed to be the enemy in the first place, there would be no need to hate and curse us in the first place, would there?
To name the enemy is to make an enemy because it completely dismisses them as human beings.

Well in a perfect world no there would be no enemy. Unfortunatly we don't and there are people who become our "enemy". God/Jesus knows this and takes it into acount. Thus that verse.

I did not say his thoughts were not his. I am saying the opposite. Jesus ascribed his beliefs and thoughts to the will of god, his father. He believed his suffering was the will of god. He believed his preachings and teachings were the will of god. He believed his death was for the greater good through the will of god. I am saying he did not take responsibility for them.

All of this is true, except the end. All of what he did was the will of God, but he still did them, he still took responsiblity for them.

Where did jesus' beliefs come from? Where did jesus' concepts on morals and virtues come from?

I believe they came from jesus' learnings and experiences as a child. No-where else. He was taught about this mighty god just as you and I were, and his imagination and inner self took over. You could even say it was all his ego. It is very logical and possible from an objective point of view.


His beliefs morals and virtues came from Him. He is God, and not God, so the morals and beliefs came from Him the one who makes the rules. Not his childhood. If you remember back in bible class you learned, or should have, that Jesus when he was only a pre-teen. Things that they didn't know so it couldn't have been taught to Him. And does Jesus not preach humbleness? How could he let it be his ego? Sorry to say your view is not as objective as you thought. It is quiet leaning toward no God ect.


"People call me strange does that make me a stranger
My best friend was born in a manger"
This message is a reply to:
 Message 247 by pelican, posted 03-04-2008 10:49 PM pelican has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 249 by pelican, posted 03-05-2008 11:25 PM TheTruth has responded

  
pelican
Member (Idle past 3239 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 249 of 309 (459338)
03-05-2008 11:25 PM
Reply to: Message 248 by TheTruth
03-05-2008 9:14 PM


Re: responsibility for ego
Ok your close, man did write it, but most of it was God inspired.
Ok, how do you know it was inspired by god?

Well in a perfect world no there would be no enemy. Unfortunatly we don't and there are people who become our "enemy". God/Jesus knows this and takes it into acount. Thus that verse.
You do not regard yourself as the enemy, but you are. Maybe you even started it, eg as in 'the weapons of mass destruction' that did not exist.
All of this is true, except the end. All of what he did was the will of God, but he still did them, he still took responsiblity for them.
What if he was mistaken and it was the will of the devil? Would he have followed the same instructions if he believed it to be from the devil? You can't tell me that cruxifying your child is not evil.

His beliefs morals and virtues came from Him. He is God, and not God, so the morals and beliefs came from Him the one who makes the rules. Not his childhood. If you remember back in bible class you learned, or should have, that Jesus when he was only a pre-teen. Things that they didn't know so it couldn't have been taught to Him. And does Jesus not preach humbleness? How could he let it be his ego? It is quiet leaning toward no God ect.

I agree that they came through jesus but because of his childhood expereinces, especially with his mothers' suffering and his temple learnings and his emotions [including humility] and NOT from god. His awareness and his connection to humanity. His self. His inner self. His perceptions of life. His experiences of life. He wanted it better. We all have this potential to bring in new concepts.
Jesus believed/imagined it was god. He did not accept that all he heard and felt and imagined was himself.

Yes 'no god' is where this is going. There was no need for god then and there is no need for god now.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 248 by TheTruth, posted 03-05-2008 9:14 PM TheTruth has responded

Replies to this message:
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SAMBEE
Junior Member (Idle past 4112 days)
Posts: 18
From: Alabama
Joined: 11-19-2007


Message 250 of 309 (459375)
03-06-2008 2:32 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by jar
11-21-2007 3:53 PM


Re: evidence of pattern
Shalom,Jar here is the information on the pattern there is also a chart of the human body for you to view along with the info in the links listed below.Why do you use a picture of Yahweh's name as an icon and say he does not exist?
Sambee...
May HWHY bless your understanding on this subject.

http://www.plim.org/HCK%20Articles/CAN%20YOU%20PROVE%20THE%20EXISTENCE%20OF%20GOD.html

http://www.plim.org/HCK%20Articles/VERIFICATION%20OF%20THE%20PATTERN%20IN%20MAN.html

http://www.soundingthetrumpet.com/tab.htm

http://www.ayahasherayah.org/charts2.html

Edited by SAMBEE, : LINK DID NOT WORK.

Edited by SAMBEE, : LINK NOT WORKING.

Edited by SAMBEE, : No reason given.

Edited by SAMBEE, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by jar, posted 11-21-2007 3:53 PM jar has not yet responded

  
TheTruth
Member (Idle past 4118 days)
Posts: 60
Joined: 02-11-2008


Message 251 of 309 (459453)
03-07-2008 4:30 PM
Reply to: Message 249 by pelican
03-05-2008 11:25 PM


Re: responsibility for ego

Ok, how do you know it was inspired by god?

It says so "All scripture is God breathed"

You do not regard yourself as the enemy, but you are. Maybe you even started it, eg as in 'the weapons of mass destruction' that did not exist.

I never said that.

temple learnings

I thought I made this clear He taught in the temple.

Jesus believed/imagined it was god. He did not accept that all he heard and felt and imagined was himself.

Couldn't you just as easily say you imagine there is no God and just ignore the evidence of one?


"People call me strange does that make me a stranger
My best friend was born in a manger"
This message is a reply to:
 Message 249 by pelican, posted 03-05-2008 11:25 PM pelican has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 252 by Rahvin, posted 03-07-2008 5:17 PM TheTruth has responded
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Rahvin
Member
Posts: 3964
Joined: 07-01-2005


Message 252 of 309 (459456)
03-07-2008 5:17 PM
Reply to: Message 251 by TheTruth
03-07-2008 4:30 PM


Re: responsibility for ego

It says so "All scripture is God breathed"

You realize this is circular reasoning, right? And that you'd never believe anything else was true on the sole basis that it says it is, right?

"The Bible is true because the Bible says it's true. When the Bible says that it's true it can't be lying because the Bible is true."

If you read a book, let's say the Harry Potter series, and the opening paragraph says "everything in these books is true, and literally happened," does that mean the events of the Harry Potter series actually happened? After all, it has to be true. It says so right there!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 251 by TheTruth, posted 03-07-2008 4:30 PM TheTruth has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 253 by TheTruth, posted 03-07-2008 5:50 PM Rahvin has responded

TheTruth
Member (Idle past 4118 days)
Posts: 60
Joined: 02-11-2008


Message 253 of 309 (459461)
03-07-2008 5:50 PM
Reply to: Message 252 by Rahvin
03-07-2008 5:17 PM


Re: responsibility for ego

You realize this is circular reasoning, right? And that you'd never believe anything else was true on the sole basis that it says it is, right?

"The Bible is true because the Bible says it's true. When the Bible says that it's true it can't be lying because the Bible is true."

If you read a book, let's say the Harry Potter series, and the opening paragraph says "everything in these books is true, and literally happened," does that mean the events of the Harry Potter series actually happened? After all, it has to be true. It says so right there!


This would be an excelent point if it had any validity. First of all the Bible has proven itself to be true and I am not going back into that argument check one of the forums we talked about it. On top of that if you are to say that is circular reasononing take a step back and look at evolution its filled with circular reasoning.


"People call me strange does that make me a stranger
My best friend was born in a manger"
This message is a reply to:
 Message 252 by Rahvin, posted 03-07-2008 5:17 PM Rahvin has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 254 by Rahvin, posted 03-07-2008 6:48 PM TheTruth has not yet responded
 Message 255 by Taz, posted 03-07-2008 6:57 PM TheTruth has responded

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 3964
Joined: 07-01-2005


Message 254 of 309 (459469)
03-07-2008 6:48 PM
Reply to: Message 253 by TheTruth
03-07-2008 5:50 PM


Re: responsibility for ego
This would be an excelent point if it had any validity.

"This would be true if only it were not false?"

First of all the Bible has proven itself to be true and I am not going back into that argument check one of the forums we talked about it.

That's not the point. What you just said in the post up above is that "the Bible is true because the Bible says that the Bible is true." That is circular reasoning, and as such is invalid. I'm not commenting on whether or not the Bible has proven to be true outside of that. I am only stating that that single statement you made is logically invalid.

On top of that if you are to say that is circular reasononing take a step back and look at evolution its filled with circular reasoning.

The Theory of Evolution is not the topic here. "You do it too" is the tu quoque logical fallacy - what evolution does or does not state is irrelevant to your comment regarding the Bible's validity. Feel free to open a new topic if you would like to discuss circular reasoning in evolution.

Fact:

quote:

Ok, how do you know it was inspired by god?

It says so "All scripture is God breathed"

When you say this, you are using circular reasoning to conclude that the Bible is true. This method of reasoning is false, and as such your conclusion does not stand, even if the Bible were true. Your reason and logic are at fault, and so your argument is broken.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 253 by TheTruth, posted 03-07-2008 5:50 PM TheTruth has not yet responded

Taz
Member (Idle past 1545 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 255 of 309 (459470)
03-07-2008 6:57 PM
Reply to: Message 253 by TheTruth
03-07-2008 5:50 PM


Re: responsibility for ego
TheTruth writes:

On top of that if you are to say that is circular reasononing take a step back and look at evolution its filled with circular reasoning.


Even IFF the theory of evolution is entirely a circular argument, how does this make your argument not a circular argument?

You are committing the logical fallacy of tu quoque.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 253 by TheTruth, posted 03-07-2008 5:50 PM TheTruth has responded

Replies to this message:
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