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Member (Idle past 6232 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Is the bible the word of God or men? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
TheTruth Member (Idle past 6188 days) Posts: 60 Joined: |
umm inspired by God. No I don't think so, not at the same time but multiple people saw Him just not at the same time. I'm sure you're aware that there are many accounts of Jesus and his miracles, and technecly He is part of the God head 3 in one deal. So it really depends on how you look at it.
And if there is a loving creator, wouldn't the greatest gift to us be to be the creators of our own existence?
In a sense your right we choose to get with the opposite sex and make children, but God ultimatly decides if the child lives or not. So yes and no.
"Love thine enemies." Who are the enemy? 'Forgive them Lord." Who are they that need forgiveness?
The "enemy" would be anyone who does anything against us I guess. The next quote is from when Christ is on the cross dieing (right?)and they that need forgiveness would be the romans gambling over his clothes and such, mocking him, and other mean things(aka his enemy's that he said to love before he is showing you how). "People call me strange does that make me a stranger My best friend was born in a manger"
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TheTruth Member (Idle past 6188 days) Posts: 60 Joined: |
There are more New Testiment ones, what I showed is only like an 1/8 of what I have. There are non-biblical proofs...
quote:Thats only the ten being fullfilled now there is 90 more I'll let you look them up. 100prohecies.org "People call me strange does that make me a stranger My best friend was born in a manger"
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pelican Member (Idle past 5309 days) Posts: 781 From: australia Joined: |
umm inspired by God. No I don't think so, not at the same time but multiple people saw Him just not at the same time. Could it be true that muliple people pretended they saw god? Could it be possible that multiple people were out of their minds and suffering a form of mental illness? I know there are multiple people doing this today. Many claim to see, hear and converse with god. What is the difference between the authors of the bible and these people today?
In a sense your right we choose to get with the opposite sex and make children, but God ultimatly decides if the child lives or not. So yes and no. I don't mean choose. I mean create, from start to finish. Is that so unimaginable?
"Love thine enemies." Who are the enemy? 'Forgive them Lord." Who are they that need forgiveness? Your enemy sees you as the enemy but you don't see yourself as the enemy. The point is in "that the romans' saw jesus as the enemy. The romans did not see themselves as the enemy."Jesus had a responsibilty to treat all of humanity as equals and he did not.
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TheTruth Member (Idle past 6188 days) Posts: 60 Joined: |
Could it be true that muliple people pretended they saw god? Could it be possible that multiple people were out of their minds and suffering a form of mental illness? I know there are multiple people doing this today. Many claim to see, hear and converse with god. What is the difference between the authors of the bible and these people today?
yes but do multiple people imagine the same trial and execution the same way not just the bible other writings tell this story as well
Is that so unimaginable?
Yes, has it ever been done?
Your enemy sees you as the enemy but you don't see yourself as the enemy. The point is in "that the romans' saw jesus as the enemy. The romans did not see themselves as the enemy."
What's your point?
Jesus had a responsibilty to treat all of humanity as equals and he did not.
When did he not treat everyone equal? Name three times. "People call me strange does that make me a stranger My best friend was born in a manger"
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pelican Member (Idle past 5309 days) Posts: 781 From: australia Joined: |
yes but do multiple people imagine the same trial and execution the same way not just the bible other writings tell this story as well I don't think the trial was IMAGINED but that is the key word. All references to god are from a single imagination and never collectively.
Your enemy sees you as the enemy but you don't see yourself as the enemy. The point is in "that the romans' saw jesus as the enemy. The romans did not see themselves as the enemy." What's your point? My point is that in conflict we are all enemies. We are all human beings too.
Jesus had a responsibilty to treat all of humanity as equals and he did not. When did he not treat everyone equal? Name three times. I am not a bible scholar, however, from an objective view I believe Jesus' perception of the human race was that of good and bad. The enemy, the thief, the betrayor, the persecutor, all labels, all from judgements of a superior nature. This is not equality. Jesus wanted equality his way.Is this not control and manipulation of the masses in his imagined god's name? Is it possible jesus did not take responsibilty for his own mind, his own thoughts, his own beliefs and his own actions? What has a god got to do with any of this? My observations lead me to conclude that the bible is the word of man.
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TheTruth Member (Idle past 6188 days) Posts: 60 Joined: |
I don't think the trial was IMAGINED but that is the key word. All references to god are from a single imagination and never collectively.
If the trial wasn't imagined how was the defendent imagined you don't hang an imaginary man on a cross and lauh at him. It's illogical
I am not a bible scholar, however, from an objective view I believe Jesus' perception of the human race was that of good and bad. The enemy, the thief, the betrayor, the persecutor, all labels, all from judgements of a superior nature. This is not equality. Jesus wanted equality his way.
I am not a bible scholar either but I will say that this is a false statement
Is this not control and manipulation of the masses in his imagined god's name? Is it possible jesus did not take responsibilty for his own mind, his own thoughts, his own beliefs and his own actions? What has a god got to do with any of this? My observations lead me to conclude that the bible is the word of man.
The enemy, the thief, the betrayor, the persecutor,
He didn't label people. He said that the enemy is the one who hates you and curses you. Besides like you pointed out He tells us to them them that hate us bless them that curse us. Not label them as bad. How do you say His thoughts were not His. That isn't possible. Explain this please. "People call me strange does that make me a stranger My best friend was born in a manger"
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pelican Member (Idle past 5309 days) Posts: 781 From: australia Joined: |
I don't think the trial was IMAGINED but that is the key word. All references to god are from a single imagination and never collectively. If the trial wasn't imagined how was the defendent imagined you don't hang an imaginary man on a cross and lauh at him. It's illogical I don't think any of it was purely imagination. These, alledgedly, are accounts given by humans. I cannot dispute that. The topic is concerned with 'is the bible written by man or god'? I think it is quite logical to think god is the imagination of the individual and the bible is purely man-made.
I am not a bible scholar either but I will say that this is a false statement Why?
He didn't label people. He said that the enemy is the one who hates you and curses you. Besides like you pointed out He tells us to them them that hate us bless them that curse us. Not label them as bad. The enemy is a person, not a label. If enemy describes someone who hates and curses you, why label them the enemy? They just hate you and curse you. They might have good reason to hate you and curse you.If we truly loved and blessed the people who are deemed to be the enemy in the first place, there would be no need to hate and curse us in the first place, would there? To name the enemy is to make an enemy because it completely dismisses them as human beings. How do you say His thoughts were not His. That isn't possible Explain this please. I did not say his thoughts were not his. I am saying the opposite. Jesus ascribed his beliefs and thoughts to the will of god, his father. He believed his suffering was the will of god. He believed his preachings and teachings were the will of god. He believed his death was for the greater good through the will of god. I am saying he did not take responsibility for them. Where did jesus' beliefs come from? Where did jesus' concepts on morals and virtues come from? I believe they came from jesus' learnings and experiences as a child. No-where else. He was taught about this mighty god just as you and I were, and his imagination and inner self took over. You could even say it was all his ego. It is very logical and possible from an objective point of view.
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TheTruth Member (Idle past 6188 days) Posts: 60 Joined: |
I don't think any of it was purely imagination. These, alledgedly, are accounts given by humans. I cannot dispute that. The topic is concerned with 'is the bible written by man or god'? I think it is quite logical to think god is the imagination of the individual and the bible is purely man-made.
Ok your close, man did write it, but most of it was God inspired.
The enemy is a person, not a label. If enemy describes someone who hates and curses you, why label them the enemy? They just hate you and curse you. They might have good reason to hate you and curse you.
Well in a perfect world no there would be no enemy. Unfortunatly we don't and there are people who become our "enemy". God/Jesus knows this and takes it into acount. Thus that verse.
If we truly loved and blessed the people who are deemed to be the enemy in the first place, there would be no need to hate and curse us in the first place, would there? To name the enemy is to make an enemy because it completely dismisses them as human beings.
I did not say his thoughts were not his. I am saying the opposite. Jesus ascribed his beliefs and thoughts to the will of god, his father. He believed his suffering was the will of god. He believed his preachings and teachings were the will of god. He believed his death was for the greater good through the will of god. I am saying he did not take responsibility for them.
All of this is true, except the end. All of what he did was the will of God, but he still did them, he still took responsiblity for them.
Where did jesus' beliefs come from? Where did jesus' concepts on morals and virtues come from?
His beliefs morals and virtues came from Him. He is God, and not God, so the morals and beliefs came from Him the one who makes the rules. Not his childhood. If you remember back in bible class you learned, or should have, that Jesus when he was only a pre-teen. Things that they didn't know so it couldn't have been taught to Him. And does Jesus not preach humbleness? How could he let it be his ego? Sorry to say your view is not as objective as you thought. It is quiet leaning toward no God ect. I believe they came from jesus' learnings and experiences as a child. No-where else. He was taught about this mighty god just as you and I were, and his imagination and inner self took over. You could even say it was all his ego. It is very logical and possible from an objective point of view.
"People call me strange does that make me a stranger My best friend was born in a manger"
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pelican Member (Idle past 5309 days) Posts: 781 From: australia Joined: |
Ok your close, man did write it, but most of it was God inspired. Ok, how do you know it was inspired by god?
Well in a perfect world no there would be no enemy. Unfortunatly we don't and there are people who become our "enemy". God/Jesus knows this and takes it into acount. Thus that verse. You do not regard yourself as the enemy, but you are. Maybe you even started it, eg as in 'the weapons of mass destruction' that did not exist.
All of this is true, except the end. All of what he did was the will of God, but he still did them, he still took responsiblity for them. What if he was mistaken and it was the will of the devil? Would he have followed the same instructions if he believed it to be from the devil? You can't tell me that cruxifying your child is not evil.
His beliefs morals and virtues came from Him. He is God, and not God, so the morals and beliefs came from Him the one who makes the rules. Not his childhood. If you remember back in bible class you learned, or should have, that Jesus when he was only a pre-teen. Things that they didn't know so it couldn't have been taught to Him. And does Jesus not preach humbleness? How could he let it be his ego? It is quiet leaning toward no God ect. I agree that they came through jesus but because of his childhood expereinces, especially with his mothers' suffering and his temple learnings and his emotions [including humility] and NOT from god. His awareness and his connection to humanity. His self. His inner self. His perceptions of life. His experiences of life. He wanted it better. We all have this potential to bring in new concepts.Jesus believed/imagined it was god. He did not accept that all he heard and felt and imagined was himself. Yes 'no god' is where this is going. There was no need for god then and there is no need for god now.
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SAMBEE Junior Member (Idle past 6181 days) Posts: 18 From: Alabama Joined: |
Shalom,Jar here is the information on the pattern there is also a chart of the human body for you to view along with the info in the links listed below.Why do you use a picture of Yahweh's name as an icon and say he does not exist?
Sambee... May HWHY bless your understanding on this subject. Plim Report Welcome Plim Report Welcome http://www.soundingthetrumpet.com/tab.htm
Page not found - Ayah Asher Ayah
Ayah Asher Ayah
Edited by SAMBEE, : LINK DID NOT WORK. Edited by SAMBEE, : LINK NOT WORKING. Edited by SAMBEE, : No reason given. Edited by SAMBEE, : No reason given.
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TheTruth Member (Idle past 6188 days) Posts: 60 Joined: |
Ok, how do you know it was inspired by god?
It says so "All scripture is God breathed"
You do not regard yourself as the enemy, but you are. Maybe you even started it, eg as in 'the weapons of mass destruction' that did not exist.
I never said that.
temple learnings
I thought I made this clear He taught in the temple.
Jesus believed/imagined it was god. He did not accept that all he heard and felt and imagined was himself.
Couldn't you just as easily say you imagine there is no God and just ignore the evidence of one? "People call me strange does that make me a stranger My best friend was born in a manger"
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Rahvin Member Posts: 4084 Joined: Member Rating: 7.8 |
It says so "All scripture is God breathed" You realize this is circular reasoning, right? And that you'd never believe anything else was true on the sole basis that it says it is, right? "The Bible is true because the Bible says it's true. When the Bible says that it's true it can't be lying because the Bible is true." If you read a book, let's say the Harry Potter series, and the opening paragraph says "everything in these books is true, and literally happened," does that mean the events of the Harry Potter series actually happened? After all, it has to be true. It says so right there!
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TheTruth Member (Idle past 6188 days) Posts: 60 Joined: |
You realize this is circular reasoning, right? And that you'd never believe anything else was true on the sole basis that it says it is, right?
This would be an excelent point if it had any validity. First of all the Bible has proven itself to be true and I am not going back into that argument check one of the forums we talked about it. On top of that if you are to say that is circular reasononing take a step back and look at evolution its filled with circular reasoning. "The Bible is true because the Bible says it's true. When the Bible says that it's true it can't be lying because the Bible is true." If you read a book, let's say the Harry Potter series, and the opening paragraph says "everything in these books is true, and literally happened," does that mean the events of the Harry Potter series actually happened? After all, it has to be true. It says so right there!
"People call me strange does that make me a stranger My best friend was born in a manger"
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Rahvin Member Posts: 4084 Joined: Member Rating: 7.8 |
This would be an excelent point if it had any validity. "This would be true if only it were not false?"
First of all the Bible has proven itself to be true and I am not going back into that argument check one of the forums we talked about it. That's not the point. What you just said in the post up above is that "the Bible is true because the Bible says that the Bible is true." That is circular reasoning, and as such is invalid. I'm not commenting on whether or not the Bible has proven to be true outside of that. I am only stating that that single statement you made is logically invalid.
On top of that if you are to say that is circular reasononing take a step back and look at evolution its filled with circular reasoning. The Theory of Evolution is not the topic here. "You do it too" is the tu quoque logical fallacy - what evolution does or does not state is irrelevant to your comment regarding the Bible's validity. Feel free to open a new topic if you would like to discuss circular reasoning in evolution. Fact:
quote: It says so "All scripture is God breathed" When you say this, you are using circular reasoning to conclude that the Bible is true. This method of reasoning is false, and as such your conclusion does not stand, even if the Bible were true. Your reason and logic are at fault, and so your argument is broken.
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Taz Member (Idle past 3615 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
TheTruth writes:
Even IFF the theory of evolution is entirely a circular argument, how does this make your argument not a circular argument? On top of that if you are to say that is circular reasononing take a step back and look at evolution its filled with circular reasoning. You are committing the logical fallacy of tu quoque.
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