We know there's a God because...

Say there were no Bible, no Qur'an, no Bhagavad Gita, no religious texts of any sort. How would we know just by examining the world around us that there is a God?For myself, I would approach this question by asking what differences might exist between a world created by God and another world that came about in the absence of a God. Which would be expected to have more wars, more prejudice, more disease, more disasters? Certainly we seem to have enough of these to suspect the possibility of an absence of God in this world.I'm interested in how others might approach this question, and what answers they think are suggested.--Percy

But the only change I'm postulating to the real world is that all religious texts (and the knowledge contained therein) do not exist. The world is otherwise just as we find it today. Would there be no new miracles, no new fulfilled prophecies, that men could observe and conclude that there must be a God?--Percy

I've read all your posts and I think I understand what you're saying. You didn't respond to my question about new miracles and new fulfilled prophecies, but I think that would be part of what you mean when you say "God finds you."So would it be correct to say that it is your view that unless God overtly provides us evidence that he exists that we would not otherwise know about Him?--Percy

Well, what if we lowered the bar a little and didn't ask for completely certainty. Just by examining the world around us, is there anything that would lead people to suspect that there is a God? What about the argument from design?--Percy

You mean this has been established in this thread? I don't think so.The opening post asks the question, "Say there were no Bible, no Qur'an, no Bhagavad Gita, no religious texts of any sort. How would we know just by examining the world around us that there is a God?"Can you answer this question? Iano appears to disagree that such evidence exists. He believes that unless God reveals himself to you that it isn't possible to know he exists with certainty.--Percy

Hi Rob,First I'll reply to this post as Percy, then I'll reply to the rest of your posts as Admin. How do you tell the difference between a God-created world and life, versus a natural world and life where we lack sufficient evidence and intelligence to explain how they came about? So if in a Godless world we should expect wars and disease, since wars and disease are exactly what we do have, then isn't a Godless world the natural conclusion?--PercyPS - I think it's great that you can spell empirical now, but you somehow managed to misspell for!

But the OP asks what you might conclude from examining the world around us in the absence of religious texts. Is that what you would conclude, that God exists and that mankind has crucified Him? And not only conclude God exists and was crucified by mankind, but that we had done so in order to "stay in control as god himself," despite being buffeted by wars and disease.I'm not following the logic.--Percy

When typing a message into the message box, look at the links to the left of the box. One of them is for dBCodes help. Click on that.--Percy

The OP asks you to consider a hypothetical question, and I'm interpreting responses as if they were addressing this hypothetical. If you'd prefer not to address the hypothetical because it doesn't seem to make sense or seems flawed in some way then you only need one post to say that.--Percy

Just to make sure, so now you *are* addressing the hypothetical? Or is this just another way of saying the hypothetical makes no sense to you?If you former, then am I correct to summarize your position this way: that the mere fact that you're conscious and can think indicates that there must be a God. If so, then what is it about your examination of the world around us that would lead you to this conclusion?--Percy

Having religious texts is not what was posed by hypothetical question in the OP, which is what I just finished being very, very clear about in my last two posts. Now I combine that with what you say next: I don't know what your problem is, but I don't care, and a smilie face doesn't make it all better. Given your history it doesn't take much to suspend you, and I'm not going to wait. See you in 24 hours.--Percy

If I'm reading Chiroptera correctly, I think you may be missing the point. You think he's equating depravity to Christianity, while what Chiroptera is actually saying is that the Industrial Revolution was driven by motives normally deprecated by Christianity, such as greed and avarice, and that these were the driving forces behind the Industrial Revolution, not God and Bible.Chiroptera is also right to note that this is off-topic, unless the Industrial Revolution is how we know there's a God.--Percy