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Author Topic:   More than flesh and blood?
Recon3rd
Member (Idle past 5842 days)
Posts: 35
Joined: 03-01-2008


Message 31 of 62 (459503)
03-08-2008 7:52 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Larni
03-01-2008 10:14 AM


Larni-
No confusion here.
If you can point out a spirit or soul there would be some confusion.
Untill then were is the problem with working with the observable universe without adding extraneous variables whose existance is not established?
So in other words at this point in time and with the equipment available today you don't know for sure if the answer is yes or no. How much of what we know today did we not observe 100 years ago because we had yet to understand because of the lack of technology?
Larni....thanks for the welcome
Edited by Recon3rd, : correction

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Recon3rd
Member (Idle past 5842 days)
Posts: 35
Joined: 03-01-2008


Message 32 of 62 (459507)
03-08-2008 8:22 AM


Since we live in a 3d realm we can't 'see' other realms even though they exist. I'm sure most people have listened to a radio yet without the radios receiver we wouldn't know there were anything in the room with us, television and a host of other devices provide us the ability to observe something from another realm. Just because we can't see something doesn't make an absolute for nonexistence.
So wouldn't it be very possible that a spiritual realm does exist but we at the present time haven't come up with a receiver to pick up that realm?

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by Taz, posted 03-08-2008 1:18 PM Recon3rd has replied

  
Larni
Member (Idle past 164 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 33 of 62 (459542)
03-08-2008 1:14 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Recon3rd
03-08-2008 7:52 AM


The thing is, without any positive evidence of (for example) things like souls there is no more reason to beleive that we have (for example) a soul than in beleiving that each of us has an invisible entity holding us down on the surface of the planet.

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Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 34 of 62 (459544)
03-08-2008 1:18 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Recon3rd
03-08-2008 8:22 AM


Recon3rd writes:
Since we live in a 3d realm we can't 'see' other realms even though they exist. I'm sure most people have listened to a radio yet without the radios receiver we wouldn't know there were anything in the room with us, television and a host of other devices provide us the ability to observe something from another realm. Just because we can't see something doesn't make an absolute for nonexistence.
So wouldn't it be very possible that a spiritual realm does exist but we at the present time haven't come up with a receiver to pick up that realm?
Sorry, but this is utter nonsense from someone that obviously know not how radio waves work.
A while ago, I attended a religious sermon by some pastor. He was preaching about faith and how it is a necessary part of life. He used the example of radio and tv as examples of faith. After the sermon, I confronted him and asked him how radio and tv demonstrated faith, and he said (and I swear he said this) that since noone in the world knows how these things work but we use them anyway, we must have faith that they work. I swear, this guy had no idea how radio and tv work so he just automatically assumed that everyone else is an idiot like him.
You remind me of him.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Recon3rd, posted 03-08-2008 8:22 AM Recon3rd has replied

Replies to this message:
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tesla
Member (Idle past 1593 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 35 of 62 (459593)
03-08-2008 6:50 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Recon3rd
03-01-2008 7:54 AM


up to you.
is there more for you after this body dies?
yes.
can i prove it?
yes.
will you believe it?
thats up to you.
nothing in the body of existence is destroyed. it is changed from form to form. but only if the intelligent energy that was first of all things that existed with nothing else and made all that is decides to cut you from the body, then you die.
the energy that was first of all things created by faith. and all is because of its faith. your "soul" is your consciousness that shares the conscious realm, aka: spirit realm. to be born into this realm, you first have to become aware it is there and by seeking, find it. but there are good and bad forces in the spirit realm on earth. you should learn the difference between them, because one seeks to cut you off from existence.
Jesus was the very consciousness of God in the body of a man. to know more about "existence" read what he Say's of the "father" and the bible what it Say's of "God".
in science, observe in the big bang: time=0 or "the singularity" the singularity is God/existence.
when you compare all these things and know there is a God, seek him in prayer. if you are seeking God, and not seeking God to be your servant, but you to serve him, you will find him.

keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
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tesla
Member (Idle past 1593 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 36 of 62 (459596)
03-08-2008 7:05 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Taz
03-08-2008 1:18 PM


it is sad that the blind lead the blind, but thats what we have.
faith is : action based on belief, with no doubt to the outcome.
when you walk across a room, or click your PC, or do anything, it is all because of faith. but what is it that you have faith in to do these things? why your senses of course. your observations. and true belief in your heart and mind, that you act.
if this kind of faith one has for God, that is what he seeks. because on that kind of faith did God create.

keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

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Larni
Member (Idle past 164 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 37 of 62 (459639)
03-09-2008 7:57 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by tesla
03-08-2008 6:50 PM


Re: up to you.
tesla writes:
is there more for you after this body dies?
yes.
can i prove it?
yes.
Gon on then tesla, I defy you to 'prove' it.
Your piss poor record up till now allows me to hypothosise that you will respond with a word salad: think of this as H1
So the null hypothesis (H0) is tha you will infact make sense with your 'proof'.
Help me tesla, help me regect H0 with your nonsense proof.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by tesla, posted 03-08-2008 6:50 PM tesla has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by tesla, posted 03-09-2008 12:04 PM Larni has replied

  
Recon3rd
Member (Idle past 5842 days)
Posts: 35
Joined: 03-01-2008


Message 38 of 62 (459652)
03-09-2008 9:35 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by Taz
03-08-2008 1:18 PM


quote:
Sorry, but this is utter nonsense from someone that obviously know not how radio waves work.
A while ago, I attended a religious sermon by some pastor. He was preaching about faith and how it is a necessary part of life. He used the example of radio and tv as examples of faith. After the sermon, I confronted him and asked him how radio and tv demonstrated faith, and he said (and I swear he said this) that since noone in the world knows how these things work but we use them anyway, we must have faith that they work. I swear, this guy had no idea how radio and tv work so he just automatically assumed that everyone else is an idiot like him.
You remind me of him.
We'll thanks for the insult. Perhaps you could explain how radio waves work. Can you see them, without the aid of some device to prove they are there? How bout the light spectrum can you with your own eyes see the whole light spectrum? How bout sound waves, if I set off a fire cracker can you see the sound? Does a deaf person hear what is not seen? No, does than mean it doesn't exist only to them?
I don't know what the pastor said or its setting but I'm sure he wasn't talking the type of faith you have in God. It's like when you get up in the morning and go to the bathroom, you go in and flip the light on, never doubting the lights gonna light. You just do it in faith, a faith you don't even think about and it has nothing to do with God. You may have misunderstood him, he may have been saying the same unquestioned faith of the light going on when you flip the switch is akin to the faith we should have in God, unquestionable.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Taz, posted 03-08-2008 1:18 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by Taz, posted 03-09-2008 1:42 PM Recon3rd has replied

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 1593 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 39 of 62 (459670)
03-09-2008 12:04 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Larni
03-09-2008 7:57 AM


Re: up to you.
"Israel! how i have longed to gather you as a hen gathers her eggs! but you are unwilling!"
Up to you Larni to examine the evidence. You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink.
How many times have i debated with you? You are like the world. But God is not of the world. When you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change.
Edited by tesla, : No reason given.

keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Larni, posted 03-09-2008 7:57 AM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
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tesla
Member (Idle past 1593 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 40 of 62 (459691)
03-09-2008 1:32 PM


wise man
There was a man in a small village who was known to be the wisest man in all the land.
A young boy said to himself; I will fool this man! For lets see how wise he is!
And the boy took up a butterfly in his hands while it was alive. saying to himself, I will ask him if this butterfly in my hands is alive or dead, And if he says dead i will release it alive, And if alive, I will crush it.
And went to the wise man. The boy said to him " You are the wisest man of all! I have a question, Is this bee in my hands alive or dead?"
The man replied; " It is in your hands."
So also is our fates.

keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 41 of 62 (459696)
03-09-2008 1:42 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Recon3rd
03-09-2008 9:35 AM


Recon3rd writes:
We'll thanks for the insult. Perhaps you could explain how radio waves work. Can you see them, without the aid of some device to prove they are there? How bout the light spectrum can you with your own eyes see the whole light spectrum? How bout sound waves, if I set off a fire cracker can you see the sound? Does a deaf person hear what is not seen? No, does than mean it doesn't exist only to them?
Muahahahahahahahaha!
Like I said before. Not everyone is as ignorant as people like you. You remind me of Kent Hovind, which once claimed that sonar was part of the electromagnetic spectrum.
I've always wondered if christians who know better than this feel embarrassed for their brethrens.
don't know what the pastor said or its setting but I'm sure he wasn't talking the type of faith you have in God.
Nope. That's what I thought at first, too. That's why I talked to him afterward.
It's like when you get up in the morning and go to the bathroom, you go in and flip the light on, never doubting the lights gonna light.
That's called "trust", not faith. The light has consistently turned on, so you trust that the next time you flip the switch it will turn on.
Can you say the same thing about miracles? I have an aunt that needed spinal surgery. For years, she refused to go through with the surgery because she was convinced god was going to heal her. It wasn't until she lost feelings of both her legs did she agree to visit the surgeon. The surgeon said if she didn't have the surgery then she could become paralized from waist down anytime. She still had second thoughts because she still thought god was going to heal her. It took her entire family to convince her to go through with it.
That's called faith. I can't believe you people are comparing that to switching on and off the light.
You may have misunderstood him, he may have been saying the same unquestioned faith of the light going on when you flip the switch is akin to the faith we should have in God, unquestionable.
I didn't misunderstand him. That's why I talked to him after the sermon. He literally was comparing his faith in radio waves to his faith in god. Why? Because he literally had no idea what an electromagnetic wave was and he thought the rest of us was as ignorant as he was.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Recon3rd, posted 03-09-2008 9:35 AM Recon3rd has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by Recon3rd, posted 03-11-2008 5:59 PM Taz has replied

  
Larni
Member (Idle past 164 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 42 of 62 (459719)
03-09-2008 3:03 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by tesla
03-09-2008 12:04 PM


Re: up to you.
You said you could prove it.
If you can't that makes you a damn liar.
Edited by Larni, : No reason given.

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Hill Billy
Member (Idle past 5354 days)
Posts: 163
From: The hills
Joined: 01-26-2008


Message 43 of 62 (459870)
03-10-2008 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Larni
03-02-2008 8:11 AM


More or less?
Larni:
Thoughs physical reactions (plus the automatic thoughts associated with the physical reactions) are what are known as emotion.
Really?
Hill Billy writes:
Your very thoughts or your brain activity?
You say
My very thoughts.
Then you say :
The information and meaning of the thoughts were not measured untill they are verbalised.
Which, of course makes them NOT independently verifiable. We must take you at your word that you thought what you said you thought.
The activity is the thought and the thought is the activity.
I understand that you BELIEVE this to be true, however it remains un-verifiable.
I get that you have FAITH in a nice simple world, but this is your OPINION :
As I said 'emotion' is a description of physical sensations and thoughts: that's about as complex as it gets.
The possibility that it ain't that simple remains possible.
Science requires independent verifiability and our thoughts and feelings remain un-verifiable from an independent standpoint. You can read my words but not my mind.

The years tell what the days never knew.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Larni, posted 03-02-2008 8:11 AM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by Larni, posted 03-10-2008 1:45 PM Hill Billy has replied

  
Larni
Member (Idle past 164 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 44 of 62 (459880)
03-10-2008 1:45 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Hill Billy
03-10-2008 12:09 PM


Re: More or less?
Hill Bill writes:
I understand that you BELIEVE this to be true, however it remains un-verifiable.
I get that you have FAITH in a nice simple world, but this is your OPINION :
Oh the irony, me (arch materialist that I am) finally being shown that all my years of studying and researching into psychology and thinkin' an fanczy brane woik is actually a matter of Faith and Belief and Opinion.
Well I gess I shud stop lerning wright now and start preying no one else seeses throgh my hypocrasy.
If that is the best arguement you have you phail.
Phail big.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Hill Billy, posted 03-10-2008 12:09 PM Hill Billy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by Hill Billy, posted 03-10-2008 2:13 PM Larni has replied

  
Hill Billy
Member (Idle past 5354 days)
Posts: 163
From: The hills
Joined: 01-26-2008


Message 45 of 62 (459883)
03-10-2008 2:13 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by Larni
03-10-2008 1:45 PM


More less?
Larni.
Come on now,
me (arch materialist that I am) finally being shown that all my years of studying and researching into psychology and thinkin' an fanczy brane woik is actually a matter of Faith and Belief and Opinion.
Well I gess I shud stop lerning wright now and start preying no one else seeses throgh my hypocrasy.
does any of this apparently emotionally motivated babbling address the issue of verifiability, or the lack there of?
Oh the irony
Well......
If that is the best arguement you have you phail.
If you mean fail to motivate you to address the issue of verifiability, or the lack there of....
Phail big.
You would know.

The years tell what the days never knew.

This message is a reply to:
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 Message 46 by Larni, posted 03-10-2008 2:32 PM Hill Billy has not replied
 Message 47 by Taz, posted 03-10-2008 2:42 PM Hill Billy has replied
 Message 48 by Larni, posted 03-10-2008 3:03 PM Hill Billy has replied

  
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