Super Evolution and the Flood

Just a point of clarification: YECers do not state that Noah put 2 of every species. That's a bogus claim.Take canines. All canines can interbreed, right? So from a YEC perspective, though they may all be called species by modern man, they would all be the same kind and are the same kind from a creationist perspective.

Additionally, there are creationists (some with notable scientific backgrounds, accomplishments and degrees) that believe the Hebrew supports a regional flood instead of a global one and that advocate an old earth. So it would be more accurate to discuss what most YECers believe, not creationists per se.

You really want a comprehensive list of all animals?

Good luck. That's quite an undertaking for your spare time.But there are some YECers out there conducting science that might have a theoritical list. Also, I think many YECers define kinds as baramins and claim that some species that cannot interbreed successfully still came from the same kind. I suspect they would consider the donkey and horse in the same kind even though a mule cannot interbreed and produce offspring, and they probably put several whale genera into the same kind based on the fact some can interbreed, even though the rest cannot,....the thinking is they probably descend from one kind.Cats like lions and tigers, which can interbreed, may be the same kind, but I would wager they not necessarily think only one cat kind was on the Ark, but maybe not.Edit to add: for me, I accept Noah's Ark though not sure if it was a global or regional flood. However, since the story contains God's direct involvement, even closing the door to the Ark, I wouldn't necessarily assume things occurred via strictly natural mechanisms. There was a supernatural or different element involved. It may be that all the animals could fit on the Ark or for all we know, God made them all fit. It doesn't have to have a natural explanation.Certainly when Jesus fed the 5000 with a few loaves of bread and fish, there wasn't enough food in the basket to contain the food, but it still happened (imho). God could put as many animals in the Ark as He wanted.I've seen enough miracles and impossible things happen when dealing with God that trying to assume a "natural" explanation doesn't really hold much water with me. It could be, though, that reality is more elastic than we think. Quantum physics, imo, suggests the miraculous is possible from a natural or scientific perspective, just statistically unlikely, but interject God affecting the outcome, and then well, the miracle can happen.Edited by randman, : No reason given.Edited by randman, : No reason given.Edited by randman, : No reason given.Edited by randman, : No reason given.Edited by randman, : No reason given.

I didn't say I have a list. There are well-known YECers. The NYTs did a story on them. You might find a list there, for all I know.

A creationist?Hmmm.....I am not a YEC.Exactly what is a creationist?Anyone that believes God created the universe?Seems to me that is a good definition of a creationist.

Obviously you have no understanding of YEC arguments. I am not a YECer, but clearly you haven't grasped what they are saying. YECers believe that evolution within a kind producing groups or species that can no longer interbreed is entirely possible and likely. Why?Do you think God is limited by our understanding of science?Edited by randman, : No reason given.

No, I am saying the YEC literature I have read from places like AiG which you are welcome to peruse posits things like there being one or 2 whale kinds, 2 cat kinds, etc,....That's not limiting kinds to "very few" but they do not advocate a kind cannot ever evolve new species within the kind that can no longer mate.Not trying to be offensive but I would think you guys would have read what some of your critics say after all these years.

Why assume in a story with God as an active agent (He closed the door for example) that we need some sort of natural evidence of animal behaviour?

The story is explicit that God did it and so must be judged on those grounds. To act like arguing God did it is due a lack of evidence strikes me as silly.The Bible doesn't state God caused the Flood, etc,... by naturally occuring means, and in fact explicitly states God Himself closed the door. So the story contains God as an active agent, not as an indirect agent.

I am not a YECer so I don't really care if it undermines YECism or not. It puzzles me how someone could view no supernatural element involved for the story when the story explicitly says God closed the door of the Ark, not Noah.

The error in your thinking is calling it magic. Spiritual mechanics are just as real and with working principles as physical mechanics, particularly in certain areas such as miracles, etc,....So it's not an appeal to a God of disorder and arbitrariness.

I think there are other areas of the Bible more subject to a natural inquiry such as historical events of kingdoms conquering, cities existing, etc,....

well-stated

Maybe next time when you ask with more civility and respect.