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Author Topic:   the new and improved obama thread
molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2641 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 136 of 237 (460492)
03-15-2008 5:24 PM
Reply to: Message 132 by Silent H
03-15-2008 4:23 PM


Re: Obama and the Rev. Wright
Bush and his family HAVE been working in oil (among other things) with the Saudi Royal family for many years (IIRC more than 23), as well as the Taliban.
Don't forget Rummy and Saddam shaking hands!
And don't forget daddy (GHWB) supported the Taliban with money and weapons!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by Silent H, posted 03-15-2008 4:23 PM Silent H has not replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 612 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 137 of 237 (460493)
03-15-2008 5:26 PM


Obama and religion
All I have to say is that I find it interesting that many of the same people who are bitching about Obama's pastor being racist (guilt by association), were also the people who were bitching about Obama being Islamic. I guess the Islamic label didn't stick, so they are mudslinging something else.

Replies to this message:
 Message 139 by Chiroptera, posted 03-15-2008 5:37 PM ramoss has not replied
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molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2641 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 138 of 237 (460494)
03-15-2008 5:26 PM
Reply to: Message 134 by Buzsaw
03-15-2008 4:58 PM


Re: Obama and the Rev. Wright
Mobiogirl, I believe you can access all of the tapes at this site, some of which will fill the ticket. Let me know if it doesn't work for you and I'll try to come up with what is needed to substantiate my claims.
What site?
Furthermore, I am not your research assistant.
You need to support your absurd claims with EVIDENCE.
Do so or retract your slanderous nonsense.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by Buzsaw, posted 03-15-2008 4:58 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 139 of 237 (460495)
03-15-2008 5:37 PM
Reply to: Message 137 by ramoss
03-15-2008 5:26 PM


Re: Obama and religion
Interesting, too, how these charges are being made by people who would never, ever, under any circumstances vote for Obama or for anyone who might even be remotely "liberal". If these charges had any basis in fact, you'd think that more disinterested people would be able to find them.

...Onward to Victory is the last great illusion the Republican Party has left to sell in this country, even to its own followers. They can't sell fiscal responsibility, they can't sell "values," they can't sell competence, they can't sell small government, they can't even sell the economy. -- Matt Taibbi

This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by ramoss, posted 03-15-2008 5:26 PM ramoss has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 140 of 237 (460496)
03-15-2008 5:41 PM
Reply to: Message 135 by Buzsaw
03-15-2008 5:11 PM


Re: Obama and the Rev. Wright
quote:
By association it is crystal clear that Obama likes what this preacher thinks and has aquessed to it for 23 years.
Why go by something as vague and open to interpretation as association? His voting record in both the Illinois and US Senates and his speaches made therein are a matter of public record. Why not present something more concrete from his public record?

...Onward to Victory is the last great illusion the Republican Party has left to sell in this country, even to its own followers. They can't sell fiscal responsibility, they can't sell "values," they can't sell competence, they can't sell small government, they can't even sell the economy. -- Matt Taibbi

This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by Buzsaw, posted 03-15-2008 5:11 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 141 of 237 (460497)
03-15-2008 5:43 PM
Reply to: Message 133 by molbiogirl
03-15-2008 4:32 PM


Re: Obama and the Rev. Wright
Mobiogirl writes:
You claimed that Rev. Wright is "racist". Nowhere in that clip does Rev. Wright make anything even remotely resembling a racist statement.
Mobiogirl, count the number of times in the first tape which Wright says the word's black and white. It's rhetorical rampant racist rant.
Wright insists that America is and always has been run by rich white folks. That's just racist rhetoric. America has had many congressmen, senators, cabinet members and judges who are not white and who are not rich. Much of this has been the case for 200 plus years. How then can you say that Wright's hate and racist speech is not racist?

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 133 by molbiogirl, posted 03-15-2008 4:32 PM molbiogirl has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 142 by Rahvin, posted 03-15-2008 6:01 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 149 by molbiogirl, posted 03-15-2008 9:00 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 152 by molbiogirl, posted 03-15-2008 10:24 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4032
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 9.2


Message 142 of 237 (460499)
03-15-2008 6:01 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by Buzsaw
03-15-2008 5:43 PM


Re: Obama and the Rev. Wright
Wright insists that America is and always has been run by rich white folks. That's just racist rhetoric.
Except that it's true. Who were the Founding Fathers? Wealthy white men. Who constitutes the vast majority of Congress, the Supreme Court, and botht he President and Vice President? Wealtyh white men. Such has been the case since the founding. Why do you think it's such a big deal that we may finally elect a female or black President?
America has had many congressmen, senators, cabinet members and judges who are not white and who are not rich.
Not rich? Really. Who pays the lobbyists who push corporate agendas in Congress all the freaking time? What percentage of the legislative branch is white and male?
Much of this has been the case for 200 plus years.
Excuse me? Even 100 years ago, blacks were barely "free" in this country. They were still denied basic rights and treated as less than whites. The same goes for Chinese, Native Americans, and anyone else not white. Hell, 100 years ago, women couldn't vote. So how precisely do you say that we've had minority representation in government for the past 200 years? Are you that ignorant of history?
How then can you say that Wright's hate and racist speech is not racist?
Oh, it's racist, certainly. Racist comments are not always factually incorrect. Statistically speaking, you can make distinctions regarding race. It is a fact that a disproportionate percentage of young black males are in prison, for instance. The problem is when you assume that all young black males are criminals or dangerous, since that is completely not true. You can also say that a disproportionate percentage of the wealthy are white, but that also doesn't mean all whites are wealthy. All of those statements are racist though, even the factually correct ones.
It's also factually correct to say that the United states is currently and always has been ruled primarily (not completely) by wealthy white males. We have had poor men become Presidents (Lincoln, for example), but only a fool believes that wealthy white men do not and have not had an extremely disproportionate amount of control over this nation since its founding.
You're whining because you don't like what Rev. Wright said, not because it's factually wrong. And besides that fact, do you agree with every single word your pastor says? I certainly didn't when I was a Christian. I seriously doubt Obama does, either. Why on Earth does what his pastor said nearly a decade ago have anything at all to do with Obama? I wonder what we'd find if we analyzed everything Bush's preacher has said in the past 10 years?
At least this might start to erase that idiotic lie that Obama is a Muslim. I'm really, really sick of that one.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by Buzsaw, posted 03-15-2008 5:43 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 143 of 237 (460501)
03-15-2008 6:34 PM
Reply to: Message 137 by ramoss
03-15-2008 5:26 PM


Re: Obama and religion
ramoss writes:
All I have to say is that I find it interesting that many of the same people who are bitching about Obama's pastor being racist (guilt by association), were also the people who were bitching about Obama being Islamic. I guess the Islamic label didn't stick, so they are mudslinging something else.
There remains the question as to whether Obama is still a Muslim. It has been established in the old Obama thread that the son of a Muslim is considered a Muslim so far as Islamic law and that Obama was registered in both the Catholic school and the Muslim school in Indonesia as a Muslim.
With this in mind I advise all to listen out this entire segment concerning what Muslims can conceal.
Bear in mind that the world wide Islamic conspiracy to dominate the planet has made a concerted effort to infiltrate our Pentagon and in fact our entire government so as to establish Islam in the US of A as is being accomplished in Europe and as, imo, is prophecied in the Biblical prophecies.
Having said the above, as always, I'm not saying Obama is a secret Muslim. I'm posing that possibility. I'm also asking whether the highest office on the planet is too great for such a risk.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by ramoss, posted 03-15-2008 5:26 PM ramoss has not replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 146 by Silent H, posted 03-15-2008 8:18 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 144 of 237 (460503)
03-15-2008 6:52 PM
Reply to: Message 142 by Rahvin
03-15-2008 6:01 PM


Re: Obama and the Rev. Wright
Rahvin writes:
Except that it's true. Who were the Founding Fathers? Wealthy white men. Who constitutes the vast majority of Congress, the Supreme Court, and botht he President and Vice President? Wealtyh white men. Such has been the case since the founding. Why do you think it's such a big deal that we may finally elect a female or black President?
I don't know how wealthy they all were. Do you? Do you know how wealthy all of the members of all branches of government were from start to now? I don't think so and neither does preacher Wright who makes these racist allegations.
My point is that Wright is honing on the race card, ranting racisism and fomenting hatred between the races, enciting his congregation to racism.
This is obviously what kind of stuff Obama has purposely chosen for himself, his little children and his wife to listen to for decades.
It is a given that in a white majority nation the majority of the leaders in the nation will be white. Wright's agenda, even now after civil rights have been installed is to keep on keeping on fanning racism to his congregation advocating black supremicy as per the Farrakan version for America.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by Rahvin, posted 03-15-2008 6:01 PM Rahvin has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 145 of 237 (460504)
03-15-2008 6:52 PM
Reply to: Message 143 by Buzsaw
03-15-2008 6:34 PM


Whoa!
Bear in mind that the world wide Islamic conspiracy to dominate the planet has made a concerted effort to infiltrate our Pentagon and in fact our entire government so as to establish Islam in the US of A as is being accomplished in Europe and as, imo, is prophecied in the Biblical prophecies.
Why do I feel like it's 1950 all over again?

...Onward to Victory is the last great illusion the Republican Party has left to sell in this country, even to its own followers. They can't sell fiscal responsibility, they can't sell "values," they can't sell competence, they can't sell small government, they can't even sell the economy. -- Matt Taibbi

This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by Buzsaw, posted 03-15-2008 6:34 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Silent H
Member (Idle past 5819 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 146 of 237 (460508)
03-15-2008 8:18 PM
Reply to: Message 143 by Buzsaw
03-15-2008 6:34 PM


the Arabian Candidate
You didn't reply to my post #132 which contained some points I felt you ought to reply to, especially when you are playing the paranoia card...
Bear in mind that the world wide Islamic conspiracy to dominate the planet has made a concerted effort to infiltrate our Pentagon and in fact our entire government so as to establish Islam in the US of A as is being accomplished in Europe and as, imo, is prophecied in the Biblical prophecies.
I thought according to the prophecies Islam would enter an open war against the west in Israel, which would then bring on the second coming. Is there some portion open to being read that we'd get a secret Islamic president who would actually make us fail to fight and let Islam take over?
I'm not saying Obama is a secret Muslim. I'm posing that possibility. I'm also asking whether the highest office on the planet is too great for such a risk.
You've given no reason to believe he's a muslim at this point. Even if I were to buy your guilt by association argument, he'd still be a Xian. He goes to a Xian church and the pastor is Xian. That his pastor hangs out with a muslim is no different than a Xian hanging out with a Jew or anyone else. The common tie if you had not noticed is that they are part of the black community as well as trying to stand up against some of the oppressors of the world (even if ironically supporting dictators).
And once again I fid it interesting that you claim it is too great a risk, yet seem to have passed over the fact that Bush and Cheney were in bed with all of the nations whose people were involved in the attack on our nation. Bush holds hands with the Saudi King, who is heavily charging us for oil after we helped remove another enemy of his. Why isn't Bush the secret muslim?
Indeed if there was going to be a secret muslim, wouldn't they have done a better job of hiding it than promoting a guy registered at an Islamic school? Or be black?

h
"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." - Robert E. Howard

This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by Buzsaw, posted 03-15-2008 6:34 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 147 by Chiroptera, posted 03-15-2008 8:36 PM Silent H has replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 147 of 237 (460509)
03-15-2008 8:36 PM
Reply to: Message 146 by Silent H
03-15-2008 8:18 PM


Re: the Arabian Candidate
Hi, H.
I don't know if you noticed this thread, but this is where the whole "Manchurian Muslim" issue first showed it's absurd face here. (Ironically, brennakimi started this thread to try to have a serious conversation about Obama without the "Secret Agent Muslim" nonsense.)

...Onward to Victory is the last great illusion the Republican Party has left to sell in this country, even to its own followers. They can't sell fiscal responsibility, they can't sell "values," they can't sell competence, they can't sell small government, they can't even sell the economy. -- Matt Taibbi

This message is a reply to:
 Message 146 by Silent H, posted 03-15-2008 8:18 PM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 151 by Silent H, posted 03-15-2008 10:16 PM Chiroptera has not replied

  
Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2462
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 148 of 237 (460512)
03-15-2008 8:50 PM
Reply to: Message 128 by Buzsaw
03-15-2008 2:59 PM


Re: Obama and the Rev. Wright
For the record, I am not a preacher and do not have a congregation who listens to me. I am a full time merchant
Whoops! My mistake, I'm clearly getting you mixed up with another member or something. My apologies.
The point that I was attempting to make was that you have not demonstrated that Obama agrees with everything that Wright says or that Obama will follow Wright's advice. That point still stands.
You can go here and access all of the tapes relative to what I've been claiming.
The single video you link to contains none of the alleged racism, etc. If you want to trawl the net looking for unpalatable comments from Wright, with which you can smear Obama, be my guest. Don't expect me to do your homework though.
Similarly, feel free to dig up Farrakhan-related dirt on Wright. It doesn't really matter though, because Wright is not Obama. Show me that Obama has given Farrakhan some cheesy award, and I'll be suitably appalled, but just because Wright has rubbed shoulders with the old hate-monger, it doesn't affect Obama. Guilt by association is an especially poor argument when it is employed at arms length.
1. Farrakhan is an asswipe.
2. Farrakhan is anti-Semitic.
3. Wright travels to Libya (Muslim dictatorial nation) with Nation Of Islam's darling, Louis Farrakhan.
4. Wright's church awards Farrakhan with high award for (ABE: contribution)
5. Wright is not anti-Semitic.
(ABE: 6. Obama, his wife and two young children listen to this preacher for 23 years (all the years of the children).
7. Obaman's anti-Semiticsm is not in question? )
You tell me, Granny, what's wrong with this picture?
Well I have not said that Wright is not anti-Semitic. I am saying that you have failed to demonstrate that Wright is anti-Semitic.
Also, calling Libya a "Muslim dictatorial nation", is a little off the mark. Libya is no Islamic theocracy. "Dictatorial Muslim nation" would have been better phrasing, although still irrelevant to those of us who don't soil ourselves at the mere mention of the word "Muslim".
This is just guilt by association, and we could play this game with any of the candidates. Every politician has unpalatable friends and allies. They are not the ones running for office. It is a shame that you are so unwilling to judge the candidate on his own merit. Obama has said that he is not anti-Semitic and no-one has proved that he is. He gets to be considered innocent until proven guilty.
I am quite amused by your indignation at the indoctrination of Obama's kids. You almost sound like Richard Dawkins, trembling with anger at the brain-washing of the poor children. Are you really suggesting that there is something wrong with a parent taking their child to the religious service of their choice? That seems a little hypocritical.
Bottom line; you are yet to back up any of your various slurs.

Mutate and Survive

This message is a reply to:
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molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2641 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 149 of 237 (460515)
03-15-2008 9:00 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by Buzsaw
03-15-2008 5:43 PM


Re: Obama and the Rev. Wright
Mobiogirl, count the number of times in the first tape which Wright says the word's black and white. It's rhetorical rampant racist rant.
Horseshit.
Here's the transcript of that clip.
... who cares about what a poor black man has to face every day in a country and a culture controlled by rich white peoples.
Somebody missed that. Somebody got nervous cause somebody remembered that.
I am still in Bible country. I am still in the text. Jesus was a poor black man who lived in a country and who lived in a culture that was controlled by rich white people. The Romans were rich, the Romans were Italian, which mean they were European which means they were white - and the Romans ran everything in Jesus’ country.
It just came to me with -- within the past few weeks, you all, why so many folk are hating on Barack Obama. He doesn't fit the model. He ain't white. He ain't rich. And he ain't privileged. Hillary fits the mold. Europeans fit the mold. Guiliani fits the mold. Rich white men fit the mold.
Hillary never had a cab whiz past her and not pick her up becauseher skin was the wrong color. Hillary never had to worry about being pulled over in her car as a black man driving in the wrong neighborhood.
I am sick of negroes who just do not get it.
Hillary was not a black boy raised in a single-parent home. Barack was. Barack knows what it means to be a black man living in a country and a culture that is controlled by rich white people. Hillary can never know that. Hillary ain't never been called a nigger. Hillary has never had her people defined as a non-persons.
Hillary ain't had to work twice as hard just to get accepted by rich white folk who run everything or to get a passing grade when you know you are smarter than that C student in the White House.
Oh I am so glad I have a god who knows what it means to be a poor black man in a country and a culture that is controlled by and run by rich white people.
He taught me, Jesus did, how to love my enemies. Jesus taught me to love the hell out of my enemies. And not be reduced to their level of hatred, bigotry, and small-mindedness.
Hillary ain't never had her own people say she wasn't white enough.
Jesus had his own people siding with the enemy. That's why I love Jesus y'all. He never let their hatred dampen his hope. There is a name that I love to hear, I love to sing his words ...
Cite chapter and verse, Buz. Where's this "racism" of which you speak?
Wright insists that America is and always has been run by rich white folks. That's just racist rhetoric. America has had many congressmen, senators, cabinet members and judges who are not white and who are not rich. Much of this has been the case for 200 plus years. How then can you say that Wright's hate and racist speech is not racist?
Really? 230+ years. How many black folks been President?
And 'bout them Congressmen and Senators? How many of them are black?
wiki writes:
The Black Caucus has grown steadily as more black members have been elected. In 1969 the Caucus had 9 members. As of 2007, it had 41 members. Currently, Illinois Senator Barack Obama is the only black member of the U.S. Senate.
Ooo! 42 out of 535! Impressive! .07%!!!
And what about the "rich" part?
In the 435-member House of Representatives, 123 elected officials earned at least one million dollars last year, according to recently released financial records made public each year.
Next door in the Senate, whose blue-blooded pedigree includes a Kennedy and a Rockefeller, one in three people are millionaires.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0630-05.htm
Of the remaining House members and Senators, the current salary (2008) for rank-and-file members of the House and Senate is $169,300 per year. And that's not including personal wealth.
And each House member's or Senator's personal wealth (that is, before they get to the House or the Senate) is well over $250,000 each.
And. To be fair, Buzkins.
Bitching about rich people is classism, not racism.
Edited by molbiogirl, : sp

This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by Buzsaw, posted 03-15-2008 5:43 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2641 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 150 of 237 (460518)
03-15-2008 9:07 PM
Reply to: Message 138 by molbiogirl
03-15-2008 5:26 PM


To repeat my request
Mobiogirl, I believe you can access all of the tapes at this site, some of which will fill the ticket. Let me know if it doesn't work for you and I'll try to come up with what is needed to substantiate my claims.
What site?
Furthermore, I am not your research assistant.
You need to support your absurd claims with EVIDENCE.
Do so or retract your slanderous nonsense.
Gonna come up with that evidence or are you going to stand on that tired ole clip that contains nary a shred of "racism", "anti-semitism" or "radical black power"?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by molbiogirl, posted 03-15-2008 5:26 PM molbiogirl has not replied

  
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