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Author Topic:   Why try to disprove people's beliefs?
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 46 of 72 (460815)
03-19-2008 9:53 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by ChristianJuggalo
03-19-2008 9:39 AM


Re: Current times people.
That wasn't a very Christian response......
There are many Christians, the majority even, that find no contradiction between God and evolution.
As an ex science teacher I wish evolution could be questioned in school science classes. A deeper appreciation of the theory would be attained by students if that were possible. It should be able to be questioned on scientific grounds. But not religious grounds.
It is a sad fact that the only reason anyone actually questions evolutionary theory in practise is in order to replace one of the most solidly verified scientific theories ever with deeply held but totally unsubstantiated tales of magical creation of some sort.
This is done more often than not by those who do not understand evolution, do not understand science, do not understand the nature of evidence and who in many cases arguably do not understand the bible either.
That is why those who understand evolution get so defensive about it. Evolution is constantly under attack for misguided philosophical reasons which have nothing to do with science at all.
Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by ChristianJuggalo, posted 03-19-2008 9:39 AM ChristianJuggalo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by ChristianJuggalo, posted 03-19-2008 11:10 AM Straggler has replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 47 of 72 (460816)
03-19-2008 10:06 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by ChristianJuggalo
03-19-2008 9:39 AM


Re: Current times people.
CJ writes:
I'm tired of certain atheists such as Richard Dawkins talking shit about the Bible and trying to disprove it.
People like Richard Dawkins are only responding to the rising threat of christian conservatism interfering with human freedom.
But, sometimes when I argue with an atheist online, they start making fun of the Bible and using sarcasm. Why? If you're so secure with your beliefs, then you have no reason to get pissed or start trashing to the other person.
Think about it this way. The christians in this country have made non-christians such as myself second class citizens. We don't have a chance in hell of getting elected to any kind of office worth elected for. Every time someone runs for office, that person has to repeat over and over that he accepts Jesus Christ as his personal savior.
You christians have made the rest of us into second class citizens. Trust me, being made fun of is a very small price to pay.
I also hate the fact that atheists are trying to force evolution down childrens throats. They want them to believe evolution and not believe in God. If a kid wants to believe in God, then he has the right doesn't he? The same goes for Christians, some are trying to get creation taught in schools, I don't think that's right either. All they need to do, is cast out evolution and creation in schools and not worry about the shit anymore.
And you've just demonstrated a very common christian ignorant view. Evolution has absolutely nothing to say about theism and whatnot. It's science. It's the basis of all biological mechanisms that we know of. It has saved millions and millions of lives. It has made very accurate predictions. It has even given rise to whole new branches of science like genetics.
The same thing cannot be said about creationism.
Also, I have seen people get laughed at or made fun of in my school for questioning evolution. Why laugh? Are that stuck up?
Here is a thought. This is a very small price to pay for what you christians have been doing for years. The fact that I don't accept Jesus as my personal savior has automatically disqualified me from most political offices. This is not to mention the "well, I'm a christian therefore I'm better than you" attitude that I encounter almost on a daily basis.
Oh yeah, you have it so bad being an atheist don't you?
Think about it. The fact that we have not accepted Jesus as our personal savior has disqualified us from pretty much most political offices in this country. In other words, we have almost no representation in the government. How is this not bad?
You are not feeling the affect of persecution because, frankly, you're not one of us.
You aren't the one that is constantly being made fun of (current times not past)in the media, schools, television. So don't start bitching and crying.
Again, being made fun of is a very small price to pay for what christians continue to do to the rest of us. You guys have been doing it for centuries and are still doing it.
Don't judge us as a whole because of some.
Some? Excuse me? It takes more than a hand full to make sure that it is almost impossible for non-christians to get elected into political offices. Sure, you can name a few exceptions here and there just like you could name a few exceptions in the black community back during Jim Crow who hadn't been discriminated against.
It takes more than a hand full to make sure that it is absolutely impossible for a non-christian to be elected as president.
Hell, I don't judge anyone I leave that to God (who I believe is real, I'm trying to force anything on you cry baby) I have friends that are atheist. So don't be such a prick.
I just find it funny that people like racists and homophobes always say "well, I have friends who are black" and "well, I have friends who are gay" as if that absolves them of their racism and homophobia.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by ChristianJuggalo, posted 03-19-2008 9:39 AM ChristianJuggalo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by ChristianJuggalo, posted 03-19-2008 10:26 AM Taz has not replied
 Message 51 by LucyTheApe, posted 03-19-2008 11:38 AM Taz has not replied

  
ChristianJuggalo 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5852 days)
Posts: 56
From: United States
Joined: 02-21-2008


Message 48 of 72 (460820)
03-19-2008 10:26 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by Taz
03-19-2008 10:06 AM


Re: Current times people.
Well, I can't help what goes on in politics. Sorry little buddy. Are you saying that I don't like atheists?
You said "I just find it funny that people like racists and homophobes always say "well, I have friends who are black" and "well, I have friends who are gay" as if that absolves them of their racism and homophobia."
Are you saying that I hate atheists? There you go again judging me. I don't hate atheists. You atheists (some) call us christians close-minded. I do have friends that are atheists and I respect them. None of us care who believes in what. I don't have hatred towards anyone. Why do think I don't like atheists? Just because I'm raising questions?
Also, I don't care if I'm laughed at for my beliefs. It doesn't bother me one bit if someone disagrees with me. I respect the fact that people think for themselves. I just hate the fact that Christians sometimes can't stand up and express their beliefs (express not force) without being pushed aside. I see more people make fun of the Christians (not that it bothers me) these days than I do anyone else. Just look at shows like family guy, simpsons, southpark, (basically any cable show) and a lot of comedians these days. I don't see them saying shit about atheists. Also, again I'm not talking about what happened centuries ago.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Taz, posted 03-19-2008 10:06 AM Taz has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by dwise1, posted 03-21-2008 3:15 AM ChristianJuggalo has not replied

  
ChristianJuggalo 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5852 days)
Posts: 56
From: United States
Joined: 02-21-2008


Message 49 of 72 (460825)
03-19-2008 11:10 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by Straggler
03-19-2008 9:53 AM


Re: Current times people.
Also, don't say "that wasn't a very christian response" No one ever said it had to be. What do you want? Do want me to candy coat everything? I'm not going to candy coat anything I say. If I want to cuss, I can cuss. If I want to talk shit, I can talk shit. It doesn't matter if I say a few cuss words because I can ask for forgiveness for it later.

"For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved"- John 3:17
If God didn't create the universe, then how did it just get here?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Straggler, posted 03-19-2008 9:53 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by Straggler, posted 03-19-2008 11:30 AM ChristianJuggalo has replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 50 of 72 (460828)
03-19-2008 11:30 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by ChristianJuggalo
03-19-2008 11:10 AM


Re: Current times people.
What do you want? Do want me to candy coat everything?
No. I want you to be civil.
If I want to talk shit, I can talk shit
If you keep talking shit you will get thrown out of here sooner or later.
If I want to cuss, I can cuss
You can 'cuss' all you want. I don't have a problem with that. Just don't be fucking rude.
I can ask for forgiveness for it later.
Are you for real or is this some kind of wind up?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by ChristianJuggalo, posted 03-19-2008 11:10 AM ChristianJuggalo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by ChristianJuggalo, posted 03-19-2008 11:52 AM Straggler has replied

  
LucyTheApe
Inactive Member


Message 51 of 72 (460829)
03-19-2008 11:38 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by Taz
03-19-2008 10:06 AM


Re: Current times people.
Evolution has absolutely nothing to say about theism and whatnot.
It does, it says that goddidntdoit.
It's science.
?
It's the basis of all biological mechanisms that we know of.
Circular.
It has saved millions and millions of lives.
The theory of evolution has not saved one life. It hasn't even added a day or a minute to anyone's life.
It has made very accurate predictions.
Which predictions are these?
It has even given rise to whole new branches of science like genetics.
The only thing it has given rise to is animosity and time consuming hobbies.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Taz, posted 03-19-2008 10:06 AM Taz has not replied

  
ChristianJuggalo 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5852 days)
Posts: 56
From: United States
Joined: 02-21-2008


Message 52 of 72 (460831)
03-19-2008 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by Straggler
03-19-2008 11:30 AM


Re: Current times people.
What do you mean wind up? Yes I'm for real, I ask for forgiveness (that's what us Christians do moron) See how some atheists act like assholes. The smart ass used a laughing smilie face to make fun of my comment. Are you laughing at the fact that I ask for forgiveness? That's pretty childish to make fun of someone because of their beliefs. You need to grow up.
I have the right to belive in Christ and ask for forgivness right? Also, you have the right to laugh at me and think you're better than me. But, doing what you just did is ignorant. Make fun of me all you want, it will only make you look stupid.

"For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved"- John 3:17
If God didn't create the universe, then how did it just get here?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Straggler, posted 03-19-2008 11:30 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by Straggler, posted 03-19-2008 12:09 PM ChristianJuggalo has replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 53 of 72 (460834)
03-19-2008 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by ChristianJuggalo
03-19-2008 11:52 AM


Re: Current times people.
So you can do whatever you want? Act like a complete prick? Then ask for forgiveness and you are magically resolved of all responsibility because you are a Christian?
Is that what you think Christ was teaching you when you read the bible?
I think you are a wind up
If not I am sure that you won't last long here anyway.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by ChristianJuggalo, posted 03-19-2008 11:52 AM ChristianJuggalo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by ChristianJuggalo, posted 03-19-2008 12:22 PM Straggler has not replied

  
ChristianJuggalo 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5852 days)
Posts: 56
From: United States
Joined: 02-21-2008


Message 54 of 72 (460835)
03-19-2008 12:09 PM


I don't care.
Also, I don't give a shit if I get kicked off of this site. It will just prove once again that people don't want Christians standing up for themselves and say what they want. What I have seen is that Christians are being put down and casted out for raising questions.
Did anyone see the trailer for "Expelled: No intelligence allowed"? (I'm definently going to see that) Well if you did, you saw that Richard Dawkins said that he gets hostile towards a rival doctrine. So what I believe he is saying is, he doesn't like it when people question him or his beliefs. Why would he get hostile if he is so secure with his beliefs?
I hate the fact that a lot (or should I say some so I don't offend you guys) of atheists talk about us being bad people and talking about stuff that has happened centuries ago and judging us for it. I hate it when atheists say that Christianity and religion is the cause of war. Well, Hitler wasn't a religious person and he had a pretty big amount of people killed. Who did he have killed? Oh yeah, Jews. So don't be blaming us for every little bad thing that happens.
Yes, there are some Christian fanatics out there that put down and cast out atheists and people who don't believe what they do. But, you make it sound like they're the only ones doing it. You make it sound like atheists are so clean cut that they never do anything wrong and that they never cast out anyone because of their beliefs.

"For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved"- John 3:17
If God didn't create the universe, then how did it just get here?

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 55 of 72 (460838)
03-19-2008 12:18 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by ChristianJuggalo
03-19-2008 9:39 AM


Re: Current times people.
I'm tired of certain atheists such as Richard Dawkins talking shit about the Bible and trying to disprove it.
Then don't read Richard Dawkins. I don't watch Pat Robertson on TV (well, except on comedy night, of course). Pat Robertson being on TV and being invited to talk before certain groups does not count as "bothering me." Richard Dawkins writing books and being invited to talk before certain groups does not count as "bothering you."
You see? This is the problem that your sect of Christianity has. The mere existence of Richard Dawkins and the temerity that he has to express his opinions counts in your mind as "not leaving you alone." And it is your sect of Christianity that counts us atheists' attempts to be left alone as persecuting you.
-
I also hate the fact that atheists are trying to force evolution down childrens throats.
You see, this is the problem with your sect of Christianity. This is exactly what I was talking about in my initial response. Like it or not, the theory of evolution is the major unifying theory for biology; it makes no sense and does kids a great disservice to try to teach biology without evolution. And the theory of evolution has more evidencial support for it than any other scientific theory -- it makes no sense on a scientific sense to exclude it from the science curriculum. There is no reason not to teach it in schools except that it is offensive to a certain Christian sect. This is what I mean when it is Christians who try to force religious fables in our science classes.
On the other hand, young earth creationism was disproven long, long ago. There is no evidence in favor of it, and Christians figured out that all the geologic evidence was against it over 200 years ago. There is no reason to accept it unless it is a central tenet in one's religious system. This is what I meant in my response to your post; it is the Christians who are trying to force religious dogma into our secular public schools.
-
Also, I have seen people get laughed at or made fun of in my school for questioning evolution.
Oh god! Like no other kid gets laughed at for some reason or another. Most of us learn to grow a pair of balls. For some reason it's just the Christians who should go through life pairless!
-
Also, I have never said that I have been persecuted or attacked you moron. Also, I don't care to impose my Christian beliefs on anyone. Also, I don't care if a store says season greetings, happy holidays. I could give a fuck less. Quit assuming shit.
No one ever said that you did shit. All I ever said was that your claims are full of shit.
-
I don't judge atheists as a whole.
No. You're just claiming that some unidentified atheists are pissing in your beer. I'm pointing out that this isn't true, or if there are atheists who can't leave people alone, there is much, much smaller number of them than Christians who can't leave people alone, and that what you identify as atheist bad behavior are simply atheists (and Jews and Christians) who are trying to put up barriers against Christians who can't leave anyone else alone.

Rats and roaches live by competition under the laws of supply and demand; it is the privilege of human beings to live under the laws of justice and mercy. -- Wendell Berry

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by ChristianJuggalo, posted 03-19-2008 9:39 AM ChristianJuggalo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by ChristianJuggalo, posted 03-19-2008 12:39 PM Chiroptera has replied

  
ChristianJuggalo 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5852 days)
Posts: 56
From: United States
Joined: 02-21-2008


Message 56 of 72 (460840)
03-19-2008 12:22 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by Straggler
03-19-2008 12:09 PM


Re: Current times people.
Yes, I can do whatever I want. Anyone can, Christian or not. But, I choose not to do things little buddy.
You call me a prick? You said: "Then ask for forgiveness and you are magically resolved of all responsibility because you are a Christian?" That's an asshole comment to me. I never said anything about forgivness being magical you moron. And what kind of smartass comment is that? I do have responsibilties moron.
No I know Christ didn't teach us to do whatever we want. I know what I'm supposed to do and what I'm not supposed to do.
I hate it when you atheists say "you think you can do what you want because you're a Christian" The answer is no. I can, but, I choose not to due to the fact that The Lord says not to. I have had the urge to knock assholes like you out for making fun of my beliefs for no reason, but, do I do it? No, I just say to myself, he's not worth it. Hell, I've even been challenged to fights before and I didn't accept them due to the fact that it's a sin. The Bible says "Love thy neighbor" and that's why I choose not to fight (even though I have been in fights before)
So don't act like a sarcastic prick. You can be, I don't care, but don't call me one if you're going to be one.
Edited by ChristianJuggalo, : No reason given.

"For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved"- John 3:17
If God didn't create the universe, then how did it just get here?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by Straggler, posted 03-19-2008 12:09 PM Straggler has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-22-2008 11:18 AM ChristianJuggalo has not replied

  
ChristianJuggalo 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5852 days)
Posts: 56
From: United States
Joined: 02-21-2008


Message 57 of 72 (460845)
03-19-2008 12:39 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by Chiroptera
03-19-2008 12:18 PM


Re: Current times people.
So what you're saying is that atheists are right and Christians are wrong? Just curious. Also, you're putting words in my mouth and that's okay with me. That's just how some atheists are (and some Christians, don't get your panties in a bunch) I never said Richard Dawkins bothers me. I just meant I don't like the fact that he has to be sarcastic when he talks about Christianity (not that it bothers me) I respect the fact that he is standing up for his beliefs, he just doesn't have to be a sarcastic prick about it, and neither do Christians when they discuss their beliefs.
The reason I don't want evolution (or creation) taught in school is because it causes too much controversy. I'm not saying evolution is false. Hell, some Christians believe God used evolution is his process of creation. I can't say he didn't. The only facts I see supporting evolution is micro-evolution. I'm not saying the others aren't valid, I'm just saying that's all I've seen.
I wasn't saying that getting laughed at is a bad thing or that it bothers me. Hell, I get laughed at all the time for my taste in music, but do I care? No.
How are my claims full of shit? By the way, what claims? But, wait, no athesits claims are ever full of shit are they? Atheists are never wrong are they?
I never said an atheist pissed in my beer. And I don't have a list of all the atheists that talk shit to me. Where's your list of Christians that do all these things that your claiming they do? You said there is a much smaller number of atheists that bother people than the number of Christians? Go get those numbers for me and show me. Just like an atheist would say, "I need physical proof to believe it" So show me the percentage little buddy.
Edited by ChristianJuggalo, : No reason given.

"For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved"- John 3:17
If God didn't create the universe, then how did it just get here?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by Chiroptera, posted 03-19-2008 12:18 PM Chiroptera has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by Admin, posted 03-19-2008 12:48 PM ChristianJuggalo has not replied
 Message 59 by Chiroptera, posted 03-19-2008 12:54 PM ChristianJuggalo has replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12998
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 58 of 72 (460849)
03-19-2008 12:48 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by ChristianJuggalo
03-19-2008 12:39 PM


Re: Current times people.
Hi ChristianJuggalo,
I think you need a day to cool down a little. In the meantime you might give the Forum Guidelines a read, particularly this portion:
  1. Keep discussion civil and avoid inflammatory behavior that might distract attention from the topic. Argue the position, not the person.
See you tomorrow.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by ChristianJuggalo, posted 03-19-2008 12:39 PM ChristianJuggalo has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 59 of 72 (460851)
03-19-2008 12:54 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by ChristianJuggalo
03-19-2008 12:39 PM


Re: Current times people.
I just meant I don't like the fact that he has to be sarcastic when he talks about Christianity...
What? You mean this whole thread is just about how you don't like the way in which Dawkins expresses his opinions? Good grief!
-
...(not that it bothers me)...
Now you just contradicted yourself. You can't say you don't like something and then say that it doesn't bother you...those are contradictory statements.
-
How are my claims full of shit? By the way, what claims?
I don't know any more. I thought that you were making the claim that atheists "don't worry just about themselves" and bother other people which would be a legitimate complaint if inaccurate. Now you say that you just don't like the way Dawkins says stuff to the people who go out of their way to read and listen to him, which seems down right silly to me.
If your complaint really is that people should be more polite when they point out how silly certain superstitions are, then I guess I'm not all that interested in this conversation.
Added by edit:
I just noticed that you've been suspended a day for uncivil discourse. Now when you come back you may claim that you were responding to my uncivil post. Maybe not, but if you do, I suggest that you don't respond directly to the Admin's post -- that will get you suspended again. Instead, report my post here.
Edited by Chiroptera, : typo
Edited by Chiroptera, : No reason given.

Rats and roaches live by competition under the laws of supply and demand; it is the privilege of human beings to live under the laws of justice and mercy. -- Wendell Berry

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by ChristianJuggalo, posted 03-19-2008 12:39 PM ChristianJuggalo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by ChristianJuggalo, posted 03-20-2008 1:10 PM Chiroptera has replied

  
ChristianJuggalo 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5852 days)
Posts: 56
From: United States
Joined: 02-21-2008


Message 60 of 72 (460922)
03-20-2008 1:10 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by Chiroptera
03-19-2008 12:54 PM


Re: Current times people.
You said I contradicted myself. How? I can say I don't like something and then say it doesn't bother me. I don't like tuna, but it doesn't bother me. I don't like country music, but it doesn't bother me.
Hey man, I won't report you. Because what you say doesn't bother me.
But, what I want to know is, why did I get suspended and not you. I'm not saying you should get suspended or that I want you suspended, I'm just saying that you were being an asshole towards me and it's only fair.
By the way, I hope I get banned. If I can't say what I want and stand up for what I believe in, then there is no point in me being on this site. I guess it just goes to show, atheists don't want Chritians speaking up for themselves.
Remember these famous words by Richard Dawkins "I get hostile when it comes to rival doctrines" I guess he doesn't like it when people contradict him or disagree with him. That's a bigot for you. But, if this guy is so secure with his beliefs, then why does he get hostile when someone disagrees with him???
Have a nice life people. Remember, don't question atheists, because in their minb, they're never wrong. Atheists know all that needs to be known.

"For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved"- John 3:17
If God didn't create the universe, then how did it just get here?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Chiroptera, posted 03-19-2008 12:54 PM Chiroptera has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by Chiroptera, posted 03-20-2008 1:31 PM ChristianJuggalo has not replied
 Message 63 by Admin, posted 03-20-2008 1:55 PM ChristianJuggalo has not replied

  
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