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Author Topic:   YHWH, Yahweh, Jehovah, adonai, lord, elohim, god, allah, Allah thread.
SAMBEE
Junior Member (Idle past 5848 days)
Posts: 18
From: Alabama
Joined: 11-19-2007


Message 271 of 298 (457223)
02-21-2008 7:15 PM
Reply to: Message 267 by Chiroptera
02-21-2008 5:32 PM


Re: Moon god Allah is pagan
Shalom,Chiroptera I seem to get the impression that you are a evolutionist,so do you think you came to be by way of an ape?I just want to know were you stand on the subject.If I posted academic literature would that make things more credible for you? what institution would you like? also there is no pro-islam or anti-evolution in the links I posted its historical fact.I will list some links and input from various colleges.
Sambee...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 267 by Chiroptera, posted 02-21-2008 5:32 PM Chiroptera has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 272 by Chiroptera, posted 02-21-2008 7:53 PM SAMBEE has replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 272 of 298 (457227)
02-21-2008 7:53 PM
Reply to: Message 271 by SAMBEE
02-21-2008 7:15 PM


Re: Moon god Allah is pagan
I will list some links and input from various colleges.
That will be good. At the very least we need some indication of the credentials of the people making these claims, how they obtained their facts, and how they arrived at their conclusions.

If I had a million dollars, I'd buy you a monkey.
Haven't you always wanted a monkey?
-- The Barenaked Ladies

This message is a reply to:
 Message 271 by SAMBEE, posted 02-21-2008 7:15 PM SAMBEE has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 273 by SAMBEE, posted 02-22-2008 2:40 PM Chiroptera has replied

  
SAMBEE
Junior Member (Idle past 5848 days)
Posts: 18
From: Alabama
Joined: 11-19-2007


Message 273 of 298 (457316)
02-22-2008 2:40 PM
Reply to: Message 272 by Chiroptera
02-21-2008 7:53 PM


Re: Moon god Allah is pagan
Shalom,Chiroptera looking back over the links I posted they do have references of who and where the information was taken.So is it that you dispute the academic background of the archeologist and there findings because the credintials would be the degree one holds that makes him/her an archeologist.Are you aware that archeology is the study of old buried remains to learn about the past? thus this gives us a history of the past.They obtain there facts by what they find translating manuscripts cross referencing what has already been found by archeologist before them is how they come to a conclusion.
Sambee...
P.S. you did not answer my question in the last post.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 272 by Chiroptera, posted 02-21-2008 7:53 PM Chiroptera has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 274 by Chiroptera, posted 02-22-2008 5:20 PM SAMBEE has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 274 of 298 (457335)
02-22-2008 5:20 PM
Reply to: Message 273 by SAMBEE
02-22-2008 2:40 PM


Re: Moon god Allah is pagan
Chiroptera looking back over the links I posted they do have references of who and where the information was taken.
Well, good. Now maybe you can summarize their data and arguments. That is what I'm trying to get out of you. It is considered bad form here to just post links (unless someone is simply asking for sources of information). Links are meant to be citations for the data and arguments that you are presenting.
So that is what you need to do. Simply posting links doesn't count as an argument.
-
P.S. you did not answer my question in the last post.
The only relevant questions I see in your last post is:
If I posted academic literature would that make things more credible for you? what institution would you like?
The answers are: yes, academic literature would be more credible to me. And it isn't the institutions that are important as much as where the information was published; respected peer reviewed journals are preferable to web sites maintained by organizations with agendas.
But, again, the point isn't just for you to post links. You need to actually argue your case, providing links (or other citations) as references you used to obtain your facts and arguments.

If I had a million dollars, I'd buy you a monkey.
Haven't you always wanted a monkey?
-- The Barenaked Ladies

This message is a reply to:
 Message 273 by SAMBEE, posted 02-22-2008 2:40 PM SAMBEE has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 275 of 298 (457357)
02-22-2008 8:22 PM
Reply to: Message 269 by SAMBEE
02-21-2008 5:36 PM


Re: Jehovah The Biblical God's Proper Name In English
Sambee writes:
Surprisingly, the name of the Heavenly Father is not Jehovah, and never was. The history of "Jehovah," which some encyclopedias call erroneous and which many Bible scholars agree is not accurate, is quite eye-opening.
In the oldest text of the Bible, the ancient Hebrew script, the sacred Name is represented by four Hebrew letters, hwhy. These four letters are called the Tetragrammaton, appearing in English as YHWH.
The ancient Hebrew alphabet had no vowels. To indicate vowels, scribes or copyists used diacritical marks or points above or below the letters. Jewish law experts decided to hide this Name to make certain it would not be taken in vain or blasphemed. Therefore, when the four letters of the Tetragrammaton appeared in the text, scribes "pointed" it with substitution vowels for the Hebrew word adonai (meaning "lord")which was then read "adonai" instead of the sacred Name "Yahweh."
1. The Biblical translators all translate words and names from the language of the manuscript to another language.
2. The Hebrew names and words having no vowels would be translated adding vowels for the translation into any language calling for vowels. YHWH is just one example of this among the thousands Hebrew names and words.
3. To leave a proper name such as YHWH in it's Hebrew vowel-less form would render the translation incomplete and confusing.
4. Some letters of the alphabet such as J were later additions to the alphabet. This effected some changes in translations from ancient works.
Alphabet Additions

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 269 by SAMBEE, posted 02-21-2008 5:36 PM SAMBEE has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 276 by bluescat48, posted 02-22-2008 10:50 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4180 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 276 of 298 (457372)
02-22-2008 10:50 PM
Reply to: Message 275 by Buzsaw
02-22-2008 8:22 PM


Re: Jehovah The Biblical God's Proper Name In English
Much of the problem is due to the different pronuniations of translitterated letters. When YHWH became JHVH in German the pronounciation was Yahveh (Ia'-ve') J=consanental I, when brought to English JHVH beacame Jehovah (dzh-hou'-v) J=dzh.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 275 by Buzsaw, posted 02-22-2008 8:22 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 277 by Buzsaw, posted 02-23-2008 6:40 PM bluescat48 has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 277 of 298 (457486)
02-23-2008 6:40 PM
Reply to: Message 276 by bluescat48
02-22-2008 10:50 PM


Re: Jehovah The Biblical God's Proper Name In English
bluescat48 writes:
Much of the problem is due to the different pronuniations of translitterated letters. When YHWH became JHVH in German the pronounciation was Yahveh (Ia'-ve') J=consanental I, when brought to English JHVH beacame Jehovah (dzh-hou'-v) J=dzh.
If I understand you correctly this is much like Ian (Scottish-Gaelan)= John (Modern English). Biblical translators nearly all transliterated proper names into English equivalents along with everything else.
Imo all proper names including those of deities should be transliterated in the same manner. To do otherwise like the the Yahweh and Yeshuah advocates insist is devisive and confusing, especially for the novices.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 276 by bluescat48, posted 02-22-2008 10:50 PM bluescat48 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 278 by bluescat48, posted 02-23-2008 6:56 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4180 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 278 of 298 (457489)
02-23-2008 6:56 PM
Reply to: Message 277 by Buzsaw
02-23-2008 6:40 PM


Re: Jehovah The Biblical God's Proper Name In English
very similar. the English tend to change the pronunciation of everything

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other

This message is a reply to:
 Message 277 by Buzsaw, posted 02-23-2008 6:40 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
zephyr
Member (Idle past 4540 days)
Posts: 821
From: FOB Taji, Iraq
Joined: 04-22-2003


Message 279 of 298 (458443)
02-28-2008 10:29 PM
Reply to: Message 261 by Modulous
09-08-2007 6:08 AM


Re: on being grossly deficient in understanding the subject
wow, it's been years... I resurrect my hotmail account and I'm still getting reply notifications.
Not sure what your reply has to do with my message though, if anything... care to elaborate?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 261 by Modulous, posted 09-08-2007 6:08 AM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 280 by Modulous, posted 02-29-2008 9:22 AM zephyr has replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7799
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 280 of 298 (458491)
02-29-2008 9:22 AM
Reply to: Message 279 by zephyr
02-28-2008 10:29 PM


welcome back
Did you mean to reply to Message 262?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 279 by zephyr, posted 02-28-2008 10:29 PM zephyr has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 285 by zephyr, posted 03-21-2008 11:20 PM Modulous has not replied

  
SAMBEE
Junior Member (Idle past 5848 days)
Posts: 18
From: Alabama
Joined: 11-19-2007


Message 281 of 298 (459369)
03-06-2008 12:34 PM


How the name Yahweh was lost.
Shalom,all I will try to shed light on this topic has anyone thought about who forgot Yahweh's name? Reading my bible I came across were Yahweh warned his people not to worship the elohim of the Canaanites.They are[Exodus23:32-33 Deuteronomy12:29-32 Deuteronomy30:17-20]these are just a few but I noticed in deuteronomy 8:19 which reads {Deut 8:19 And it shall be,If thou do at all forget Yahweh thy Elohim and walk after other elohim and serve them,and worship them,I testify against you this day that ye shall surely perish.}
So when did Israyl forget Yahweh? first lets look at the deity Baal,Baal:common Canaanite word for "master,lord",was one of the chief male deities of the Canaanite pantheon.This is taken from Unger's Bible Dictionary page 112;now lets see what happens to Israyl after the death of King Solomon his kingdom is divied ten tribes are given to Yeroboam,the son of Nebat this is the Northern Kingdom Israyl which went north into the land of the Canaanites and forgot the name of their Elohim Yahweh.This can be proven by comparing the Elohist Source which was written by Israyl to the Yahwist or "J" Source which was written by Yudah this source is the oldest text and uses the name YHWH throughout it.
The two remaning tribes are given to Rehoboam the son of Solomon they formed the Southern Kingdom,they did not mix with the Canaanites.In fact Solomon loses the kingdom and causes them to be spilt due to pagan worship this is found in [1Kings 11:5-8 and verse 11]now in [1Kings22:2] we find these two kingdoms dicussing waging war against the Arameans the Northern Kingdom and Southern Kingdom were allies through marriage despite them being at war among themsleves.After the death of Rehoboam the story picks up Yahshaphat now king of the southern kingdom prays to Yahweh about going to war but Ahab king of the northern kingdom and his 400hrd prophets pray to Baal-Adonai-Lord to the point which Yahshaphat asked if there still remained a prophet of Yahweh among Israyl the Northern Kingdom only one was found and he was hated.
This can be found in 1Kings22:5-8.
Sambee...
hope this helps.

Replies to this message:
 Message 282 by Buzsaw, posted 03-08-2008 5:10 PM SAMBEE has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 282 of 298 (459581)
03-08-2008 5:10 PM
Reply to: Message 281 by SAMBEE
03-06-2008 12:34 PM


Re: How the name Yahweh was lost.
Hi Sambee. I don't see that you've fully answered your own question.
Imo it was the Biblical scribes who translated scriptures in the latter centuries of Judaism. They developed this foolish superstition that it was taboo to write or speak the name so they simply took it upon themselves to substitute the word adonai (lord/master) in place of the proper name of YHWH/Yahweh/Jehovah. The majority of all translators up until the 1901 American Standard Version continued in this superstition. Thus the name was removed from the translated texts in direct violation with the prescribed restrictions on changing text under Judaic Law.
Now even the revisions of the ASV have reverted back to the removal of the sacred name from scripture. Thus the ignorance prevailing today relative to the fact that Allah of the Koran and Jehovah of the Bible are not one and the same god.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 281 by SAMBEE, posted 03-06-2008 12:34 PM SAMBEE has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 283 by SAMBEE, posted 03-10-2008 9:15 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
SAMBEE
Junior Member (Idle past 5848 days)
Posts: 18
From: Alabama
Joined: 11-19-2007


Message 283 of 298 (459848)
03-10-2008 9:15 AM
Reply to: Message 282 by Buzsaw
03-08-2008 5:10 PM


Re: How the name Yahweh was lost.
Shalom,Buzsaw your reply is very much so true and thanks for the input.Also there is no "J" in hebrew so the name could not be Jehovah this letter "J" is only some 300hrd yrs old were as the Torah is 3,313yrs old.
Sambee...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 282 by Buzsaw, posted 03-08-2008 5:10 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
SAMBEE
Junior Member (Idle past 5848 days)
Posts: 18
From: Alabama
Joined: 11-19-2007


Message 284 of 298 (460183)
03-13-2008 9:00 AM


Elohim
Shalom,the word Elohim in hebrew means Mighty One(s) and not god.{Psalm63:1} O Elohim,{Mighty One}thou art my Elohim{Mighty One};early will I seek thee:my soul thirsteth for thee, my flesh longeth for thee in a dry and thirsty land,where no water is;
Sambee...

  
zephyr
Member (Idle past 4540 days)
Posts: 821
From: FOB Taji, Iraq
Joined: 04-22-2003


Message 285 of 298 (461086)
03-21-2008 11:20 PM
Reply to: Message 280 by Modulous
02-29-2008 9:22 AM


Re: welcome back
Yes, thank you for exposing my illiteracy. Back to your previously scheduled debate...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 280 by Modulous, posted 02-29-2008 9:22 AM Modulous has not replied

  
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