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Author Topic:   Evidence for the Supernatural
sr
Inactive Member


Message 33 of 107 (46261)
07-16-2003 4:01 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by doctrbill
07-16-2003 1:23 PM


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... depending on your definition of "God."
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Can you give some definitions of god?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by doctrbill, posted 07-16-2003 1:23 PM doctrbill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by doctrbill, posted 07-17-2003 11:40 AM sr has replied

  
sr
Inactive Member


Message 39 of 107 (46337)
07-17-2003 9:50 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by truthlover
07-16-2003 5:22 PM


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Gandhi believed that his non-violent resistance was a way that was blessed by Truth, which is powerful and active. Non-violent resistance works, he believed, not just because of its effectiveness as a means to persuade others and draw them to your cause, but because Truth is living and powerful and would work on behalf of the non-violent who stood up for Truth.
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Gandhi would have the concept of Brahman, that is quite odd for Westerns. Brahman is understood as the Absolute Truth, Ultimate Reality, Supreme Being, not actually like the Western God who is a dual god and may control one's karma or activities by giving one punishment and reward for his deeds.
Brahman is considered as unbiased and it won't deal with dual conditions such as pious and sinful activities. After final release one may attain the position of Brahman where there are not dualities such as sin and merit.
Sinful and meritorious deeds are not hindrance or the cause of final release, but only vidya (self-knowledge). So, Brahman is attained only by that vidya, that is the cause of liberation (moksha).
According to Advaita-vada, that is the main Philosophic line from Hinduism, ahimsa (non-violence) and himsa (violence) are harmonized only by Brahman himself and should not be taken as merit or sin.
Bhagavad-gita, that is the main scripture followed by most of Hindus, explains that Arjuna has opted for ahimsa (non-violence) and Krishna has showed Arjuna that the best way was actually himsa (violence). Repeating the dialog between Krishna and Arjuna, at the end violence has prevailed, as Gandhi himself had to face the violence of India's independence war among Hindus and Muslins and his own murder. Thus, the result of ahimsa was only extreme violence like the lesson given by Gita.
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I believe there is not just God, but Truth, and that Truth was put on earth by God. Those who love justice and show mercy will find it effective and powerful to behave in such a way, because they belong to Truth and Truth supports those who walk in his ways, even if they're atheists.
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According to Advaita-vada, Brahman, or the Asolute Truth is not a religion god who is in charge of mundane creation, as there are different levels of creation (sarga and visarga). Brahman makes sarga (original forms and ideas), and the mundane creation (visarga) is made by Brahma who is an ordinary soul.
Brahman won't be influenced by one's love and hate, justice and injustice, mercy and punishment as Brahman is taken as a non-dual substance and perfectly unbiased. Brahman does not love anyone and Brahman does not hate anyone, it has no friends and it has no foes at all. He is equal for everyone.
Theism and atheism are taken as mere inferences that cannot be helpful to attain vidya (self-knowledge) and soul's final release.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by truthlover, posted 07-16-2003 5:22 PM truthlover has not replied

  
sr
Inactive Member


Message 40 of 107 (46338)
07-17-2003 9:51 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by truthlover
07-16-2003 5:22 PM


{Duplicated previous message}
[This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 07-17-2003]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by truthlover, posted 07-16-2003 5:22 PM truthlover has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by truthlover, posted 07-17-2003 10:56 AM sr has not replied

  
sr
Inactive Member


Message 46 of 107 (46359)
07-17-2003 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 42 by truthlover
07-17-2003 11:00 AM


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I already knew that the Gita is based on an actual ancient battle that was extremely bloody, and I had read a discussion on Gandhi's interpretations of the Gita (getting non-violence from such a violent writing).
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Yes, you are right in your premise, as Gita is taken as a historical report and not merely as a sacred text. Gita is part of Mahabharata that is a very large narrative on historical facts.
Gita is spoken by Krishna, and Krishna is considered as an avatara of Brahman, that's to say, Krishna was an incarnation of Brahman himself and Arjuna's master (guru). Gandhi, as well as most of the Hindus schools of thought, was following his life according to Gita's teachings. Better saing, according to the inferences that he has done on Gita's instructions.
Karma (action) is one of the greatest points of that dialog between Krisha and Arjuna and himsa/ahimsa is but one of the many aspects of karma. Krishna's thesis is that karma should be surpased, as well as religion itself (dharma). And Gita's verse 18.66 (sarva dharma paritiaja...) is taken by all schools as Gita's final conclusion on karma and dharma.
In fact Gandhi was seeking after a balance between violence and non-violence, as the British raj in India was a quite violent period for India, where dharma was disturbed by the strong barbarism of the so-called Western civilisation. So, Gandhi has offered ahimsa to that himsa and he finaly could get the fruits. Like all karmic fruits, these were bad and good, sweet and sour, because karma itself is always dual. So, Gandhi could get independence and division, victory and murder, freedrom and more poverty, as karma can only generate more karma...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by truthlover, posted 07-17-2003 11:00 AM truthlover has not replied

  
sr
Inactive Member


Message 48 of 107 (46364)
07-17-2003 12:39 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by doctrbill
07-17-2003 11:40 AM


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I find all three understandings of the term (God) revealed in the Bible
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Yes, you are employing the understanding of god given by that scripture, that is the understanding of a religion's god. A dual being who makes a fragile creation and is trying to manage it.
But there are some other understandings on god and according to them, that supreme being is a non-dual substance who is far beyond futile things like to create and to manage material worlds like ours.
That supreme being is the ultimate reality itself and he is the four stages of consciousnes, beyond the three phases of time (present, past, and future) and existing at the ether of of everyone's heart.
That Absolute Truth cannot be attained by any sort of religion or creed as he is already there at the soul and eternaly that soul himself.
Many are seeking after that Soul of soul, trying to reach that Self of self whose understanding is not revealed by texts like Bible...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by doctrbill, posted 07-17-2003 11:40 AM doctrbill has not replied

  
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