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Author | Topic: EXPELLED: No Intelligence Allowed - Science Under Attack | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
Dr Adequate responds to randman:
quote:quote: There's a common question in introductory biology classes regarding the feasibility of eugenics. Suppose there is a recessive trait.Suppose that the homozygous recessive rate is 1 in 1,000. Suppose that those who are homozygous recessive never reproduce. How many generations would it take to have the appearance of homozygous recessive go from 1 in 1,000 to 1 in 1,000,000? Directed breeding can do amazing things, but it takes too long to do anything real. Rrhain Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
randman writes:
quote: That's because Darwinism is a piece of science, not philosophy.
quote: Two problems: 1) The direct answer is "man." Just because we're the ones making the rules doesn't mean the rules don't exist. We're back to the Monopoly example. Monopoly is a completely man-made game. And yet, there are rules. You break them, you get punished. There are even "house rules." A common one is that all the money players have to pay when they draw a bad Chance or Community Chest card are placed under Free Parking. When you land on it, you get whatever money is there. This rule has become so popular that it is now published in the official game as a variant. Rules are rules no matter where they come from. 2) Nobody is an absolutist. Not even god. God breaks his own rules all the time. Christians certainly don't obey the rules laid out in the Bible. "Absolute morality" is a fiction nobody engages in. Everyone is a relativist.
quote: Of course. But if you're going to claim that evolution is evil because of what the Nazis did, then you're going to have also claim that Christianity is evil because of what the Crusaders did. See...there's that relativism coming up again.... Rrhain Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.
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platypus Member (Idle past 5753 days) Posts: 139 Joined: |
Hey everyone,
I haven't been around for a while, but I just had to hear what people had to say about this film. To add to the discussion, I new addition was added to this link since it was last posted some time ago: Page not found | Richard Dawkins Foundation for Reason and Science
quote: Apparently the makers of this film are really trying to piss off everyone associated in any way with this film, with all the copyright infringements. Is this possibly a ploy to generate more publicity? I refuse to see this movie on principle (don't want to give them money), but I am curious about it. Has anyone seen it? Is Ben Stein actually interviewing all the scientists involved? I know earlier many scientists complained about being lied to about the intent of the movie. Were they interviewed by Ben Stein himself, or does he just interject snide remarks in the back ground while someone else conducts the interview? Did the scientist maybe think something was up when Ben Stein showed up on the door to conduct the interview for a supposedly lowly documentary? Anyone have more info on this story? You hear evolutionist says we are descedant from apes and monkees. Sure, but that's not the point. All of life is related, not just human's with monkees. If you hug a tree, you're hugging a relative, a very distant relative, but a relative nonetheless." Dr. Joan Roughgarden in Evolution and Christian Faith
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QED99 Junior Member (Idle past 5698 days) Posts: 4 From: Kansas City, MO Joined: |
Expelled claims as its central theme that scientists' lives and reputations were harmed by unfair discrimination or exclusion. Although these claims are thoroughly refuted at ExpelledExposed.com, a somewhat alternate reality is seen at Creation, Power and Violence | Science After Sunclipse, where "expelled" means death threats and physical bodily harm to those opposing ID.
Edited by QED99, : No reason given.
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: |
Is Ben Stein actually interviewing all the scientists involved? quote: Expelled Exposed
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
You can color me "not impressed".
A lot of the attacks against the movie are a little overboard. I don't remember the movie explicitly saying that evolution caused Nazism. All the movie did was try to attack Darwinism in the light that the Darwinists are snuffing out the competition. They didn't even touch on the fact that the problem Darwinists have with ID is that it is unscientific and shouldn't be considered science. They tried to make it look like the Darwinists were snuffing out the competition for political and moral reasons. Also, there was no positive evidence for ID provided. The movie didn't do anything for me except for lose some credibility for the ID folk. Ben Stein is a funny little smart ass though
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Percy Member Posts: 22392 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
So you would disagree with the reviews that characterized it as poorly made and tiresome?
--Percy
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platypus Member (Idle past 5753 days) Posts: 139 Joined: |
Speaking of reviews, here's a list of the reviews that this movie has gotten so far:
9% Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed - Rotten Tomatoes0.5/4 Star Tribune Error: 404 2.5/5 reader reviews Resentment Over Darwin Evolves Into a Documentary - The New York Times 0/4 Just a moment... 2/4 Newsday | Long Island's & NYC's News Source - Newsday On google reviews as of 4/172.5/4 Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed - Movie Reviews and Movie Ratings - TV Guide F Movies News, Pictures, and Videos - E! Online 2/4 CREATIVE WRITHING On google reviews as of 4/204/5 http://www.epinions.com/content_426757688964 5/5 http://www.epinions.com/content_426753756804 5/5 http://www.epinions.com/content_426798780036 Interesting, the diversity of opinions on the film credentials of this movie. How often do rating on a film's quality go from 0/5 to 5/5? Perhaps some of these reviews are a bit biased, in both direction, evaluating content and not just film quality. Also, I only included reviews with a rating attached, there are plenty of raving and scathing reviews that don't give us a rating, too many to list, in fact. Here's two I found most interesting from a religious website that was very critical of the film:BeliefNet: Expelled review (D) Also interesting, a google search on the movies showtime only turned up 3 negative reviews on Friday, but after a lot of internet hubbub about the bad reviews that the film was getting, 3 more reviews popped up on google this morning (I have been checking constantly this weekend). All three raving reviews came from the same website, epinions.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
So you would disagree with the reviews that characterized it as poorly made and tiresome? No, it was poorly made and tiresome in the sense that all they did was attack evolution instead of promoting ID, and their arguments were lacking. But I wouldn't say that the movie was made poorly in the sense that it wasn't put together and edited well. Also, watching the movie didn't actually make me tired or annoy me, really. It was tiresome in that it seemed to be a big strawman argument, but it was still somewhat entertaining. I thought Ben Stein was funny.
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molbiogirl Member (Idle past 2641 days) Posts: 1909 From: MO Joined: |
Not so good.
Page not found | ScienceBlogs Raw Story - Celebrating 18 Years of Independent Journalism - 404 Not Found It seems they managed only 1.2M Friday and the weekend box office is projected to be 3.4M.
And remember, they've spent millions to make this movie and millions more to market it. According to a commenter on John Lynch's blog who attended a screening and got to hear the Expelled producers answer questions, they considered a successful opening weekend to be 2 million tickets sold; they didn't even come close. They've gotta have $10 million into this, bare minimum.
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: |
The average price of a ticket is $6.82 and each cinema made on average $3,000 which I estimate to mean about 440 people per day per cinema:- A grand total of approximately 462,000 tickets sold on the opening weekend.
Not bad for a documentary, but there is a reason most people don't spend a lot of money on making documentaries. Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.
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platypus Member (Idle past 5753 days) Posts: 139 Joined: |
They've gotta have $10 million into this, bare minimum. That is, if they're not funded by the Discovery Institute, in which case a loss of a couple million $$ is no big deal to get a little nation-wide publicity. I don't think there is any definite proof of this financial connection, but there is this interesting bit from the DI's Wedge Document on Expelled Exposed about the second phase of their wedge strategy:
. production of a . documentary on intelligent design and its implications . . Alongside a focus on influential opinion-makers, we also seek to build up a popular base of support among our natural constituency, namely, Christians.
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Deftil Member (Idle past 4455 days) Posts: 128 From: Virginia, USA Joined: |
Personally, I don't recall having any urges to exterminate the Jews when I accepted the truth of evolution.
Maybe I'm not doing it right. Genocide was around long before Darwin and his theory so I don't see how you can attribute NAZIism to evolution in any way.
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4899 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
Hmmm.....I suspect if I made a similar comment, I would be banned.
But for sake of argument, can you point out where I suggested such a thing?
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Deftil Member (Idle past 4455 days) Posts: 128 From: Virginia, USA Joined: |
Perhaps I misinterpreted you when you said:
randman writes: Eugenics was definitely influenced by Darwinism and played a significant role in Hitler and NAZI thinking. To deny this is silly. but that seems to say that some of the blame for the NAZI movement falls on Darwin and the theory of natural selection. The first part of my previous post was something of a parody of that belief, but the point was that there isn't any natural connection between Darwinism and genocide. Edited by Deftil, : No reason given.
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