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Author Topic:   What is a Theory?
Blue Jay
Member (Idle past 2725 days)
Posts: 2843
From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts
Joined: 02-04-2008


Message 3 of 249 (464047)
04-23-2008 2:47 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by platypus
04-22-2008 10:37 PM


platypus writes:
I just don't think it's as clear cut as we'd like it to be.
Of course it's not clear-cut when you include examples that span over four centuries of scientific work, in which time our very philosophy, let alone usage of terminology, has evolved and changed considerably. Also, you have multiple fields of science that don't often interact with each other, and so, develop different strategies and terminologies. And, you have the media tacking "theory" on the end of anything scientific.
Then, you get stuff like this:
platypus writes:
..but they're engineering theories (is that different from scientific?)
I don't know about engineering, but music has "theories," too. So does comparative literature. These are quite different from scientific theories: they describe methodologies of writing and composing, not definitive principles about the subject matter.
---
As Rahvin said, a scientific theory is a model to explain the facts. But, if the model doesn't explain the facts, you can't call it a theory. And, if it isn't tested thoroughly enough, you can't say it explains the facts (new facts come up all the time). So, a theory has three prerequisites:
1. Explains facts about the universe
2. Holds up to testing
3. Makes predictions about as-yet undiscovered facts
And, as I stated in that thread, science doesn't make anything better than that.
platypus writes:
And Einstein developed the Theory of General Relativity to explain some wierd phenomena about light, not to explain a diversity of scientific facts. In fact, true verification for the theory came after its introduction.
I don't know much about the history of physics, but are you sure that it was called a theory before it was verified? Further, are you sure that the word "theory" meant the same thing in Einstein's time as it does now?
And, wasn't it Special Relativity that was meant to explain weird stuff about light, and General Relativity that consolidated Special Relativity and Newton's Laws?

I'm Thylacosmilus.
Darwin loves you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by platypus, posted 04-22-2008 10:37 PM platypus has not replied

  
Blue Jay
Member (Idle past 2725 days)
Posts: 2843
From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts
Joined: 02-04-2008


Message 72 of 249 (494142)
01-14-2009 2:12 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by erikp
01-14-2009 12:09 PM


All or Nothing
Hi, Erik.
I only have enough of an understanding of formal logic to do ecological research, so I'm not sure how much I can add to this discussion. Still, I'd like something clarified.
erikp writes:
true: all possible observations concur with the theory.
false: one observation contradicts the theory.
How do you tell the difference if you haven't made, and indeed, cannot make, all possible observations? Why would we want to discuss scientific ideas in terms of something we'll never obtain?
Even if you're right, your idea doesn't have any actual merit outside of semantics: it's just a toy for wordsmiths.
So, why make this distinction at all? Rather, why not instead distinguish ideas as either (a) useful on a practical basis, or (b) not useful on a practical basis?
There's a reason scientists avoid the word "true." There is an equally good reason why we don't avoid the word "false."
-----
erikp writes:
An incomplete theory is false, because there will be at least one observation that will contradict it -- there where the theory is incomplete.
If all theories are incomplete, they are all false.
What a curious concept.
The logical extension of this is that there is only one "true" theory: one that explains all physical phenomena with one fell swoop. So, there can be no such thing as "local" truth: a theory that is not universal is completely false.
So, e.g., gravity can never be true, so long as it doesn't explain heredity.
Wouldn't you also have to conclude that any religion with more than one tenet is false?
Again, what benefit does science stand to gain from using this philosophy?

I'm Bluejay.
Darwin loves you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by erikp, posted 01-14-2009 12:09 PM erikp has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by erikp, posted 01-14-2009 2:41 PM Blue Jay has replied

  
Blue Jay
Member (Idle past 2725 days)
Posts: 2843
From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts
Joined: 02-04-2008


Message 106 of 249 (494179)
01-14-2009 4:25 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by erikp
01-14-2009 2:41 PM


Re: All or Nothing
Hi, Erik.
I apologize for my apparently erroneous usage of the term "philosophy": rookie mistake.
I need one more clarification before I can proceed with my argument:
erikp writes:
Mantis writes:
So, e.g., gravity can never be true, so long as it doesn't explain heredity.
The theory that "water boils at 100 C" does not need to explain heredity in order to be false. No.
I said (paraphrasing), ”the theory need not explain heredity in order to be true,” and you said, “in order to be false.’ Was this just a typo, or was it a misreading, or are you talking about something entirely different from what I was talking about?

I'm Bluejay.
Darwin loves you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by erikp, posted 01-14-2009 2:41 PM erikp has not replied

  
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