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Author Topic:   Help me enlighten my wife...
killinghurts
Member (Idle past 5015 days)
Posts: 150
Joined: 04-23-2008


Message 1 of 40 (464208)
04-23-2008 11:43 PM


This is the first post I have made on this forum so I guess I should quickly introduce myself. I am a software engineer, avid supporter of the scientific methodology and and see myself as agnostic. Three years ago I met and ended up marrying a lovely woman - we've been very happy together except....
My wife is a Jehovah's witness and she believes:
a) The world is no older than 6000 years.
b) There were once people who lived to the ripe old age of 900.
c) God speaks to the Watch Tower (or more specifically through Jehovah's Witness' "anointed" ones) who in turn "educate" the followers.
d) Blood transfusions are against the word of God, thus if any injury would result in the necessity of a blood transfusion she would *refuse* and die for her beliefs.
The first two I'm not really concerned about, but it's the last two that have me a bit worried. I have been trying and trying to convince her to realise that the people in the watch tower are either devious or simpletons (or a combination of both). Recently she came home from one of her JW "meetings" and stated that they had a new "understanding" on a passage in the bible about how Jesus declared that there would be a time where a generation of people would never die. For those of you unfamiliar with the JW religion it will take a 10 second google search to understand what I'm talking about.
What she fails to realise is that when the JW organisation is offering a new "understanding" what in fact is happening is the JW organisation is offering "excuses" to the logical argument that they were previously talking out of their arse. The fundamental problem here is that the organisation changes their views - so my argument is - if the previous "understanding" was in fact wrong, how do we *know* the new understangin isn't.
Her reply to this (as always) goes straight back to the bible:
Proverbs 4:18 "But the path of the righteous ones is like the bright light that is getting lighter and lighter until the day is firmly established."
So it's here in the logic that I am stuck. To me the above quote lets JW's pretty much change ANYHING they want to "interpret" from the bible.
Secondly I love my wife and if something happens where she requires a blood transfusion, I would blame myself for not being able to enlighten her in the purity of lateral, logical and sane thinking.
Thanks in advance.

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Phat, posted 04-24-2008 9:16 AM killinghurts has not replied
 Message 4 by seekingthetruth, posted 04-24-2008 2:47 PM killinghurts has not replied
 Message 5 by ICANT, posted 04-24-2008 4:09 PM killinghurts has not replied
 Message 11 by Stile, posted 04-25-2008 12:51 PM killinghurts has not replied
 Message 12 by Percy, posted 04-25-2008 1:08 PM killinghurts has not replied
 Message 18 by pelican, posted 04-27-2008 3:41 AM killinghurts has replied
 Message 21 by john6zx, posted 04-27-2008 3:56 PM killinghurts has replied
 Message 24 by RAZD, posted 04-27-2008 6:01 PM killinghurts has not replied
 Message 34 by Hyroglyphx, posted 06-13-2008 12:54 PM killinghurts has not replied
 Message 35 by randman, posted 06-13-2008 1:28 PM killinghurts has not replied

  
killinghurts
Member (Idle past 5015 days)
Posts: 150
Joined: 04-23-2008


Message 13 of 40 (464497)
04-26-2008 1:38 AM


Thank you for the advice, and apologies for the late reply.. my time is limited these days.
On the blood issue, my wife quotes these passages:
Genesis 9:4
Leviticus 17:14
Leviticus 7:26
book of acts 15:28,29
acts 21:25
Another thing is that her grandfather died of septicemia (sp?) after a blood transfusion so she's pretty much made her mind up. I understand that it his her choice, and it's up to her.. but I see the decision as being incredibly selfish one, simply because the price payed for such a decision is the ultimate, a decision that would be incredibly hard to accept as a husband, also for our child. All this because a few people once wrote that in a book, a book that we have no hard evidence to support. We can argue hours on the validity of the bible, but in the end there are no facts to support it, no material evidence of a spiritual world, or even extra dimensions (yet). Until that time it I think it would be wrong to base such a hefty decision on such little valid information. It's just insane.
One thing I was looking for was some statisitcs on the number of successful blood transfusions versus unsuccessfull transfusions resulting in death.
I can't seem to find this information anywhere on the net - anyone else know where I can find that?

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Taz, posted 04-26-2008 1:48 AM killinghurts has not replied
 Message 15 by Rrhain, posted 04-26-2008 2:32 AM killinghurts has not replied
 Message 16 by Percy, posted 04-26-2008 7:31 AM killinghurts has not replied

  
killinghurts
Member (Idle past 5015 days)
Posts: 150
Joined: 04-23-2008


Message 17 of 40 (464538)
04-26-2008 8:49 PM


I don't think I'm ever going to change her mind. Hell, even the JW's change their "understanding" on things more often than I change my underwear, so what hope do I have? One person against an entire organisation, the odds are pretty slim.
Anyway we got into an argument about it yesterday, (well at least I wasn't arguing, she was) and it turns out she doesn't wan't to speak about it anymore... so I guess that's that. Actually it seems everytime we get to the point where the rational thought breaks down, it ends up in a mess.
Thanks for the suggestions though, maybe they will help someone else who is in my position.
I think there are two thinks that make people believe in this tripe:
a) Being poor.
b) Being alone.
Without those two, the organisation can't trap the minds of the weak.

  
killinghurts
Member (Idle past 5015 days)
Posts: 150
Joined: 04-23-2008


Message 19 of 40 (464561)
04-27-2008 6:34 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by pelican
04-27-2008 3:41 AM


Re: Is that so...........................................
No it's not my opinion, they were once specifying a truth - a truth that to them was absolutly undeniable - as undeniable as gravity itself, anyone who questionoed the truth (which is excatly what I and others did *before* they changed it) would be told that they themselves don't understand the teachings..
They then changed what that truth was. And was there any questioning afterward? No. Was their any indication of investigation onto why they were wrong in the first place? No. Are they right now? Who knows? Can they make up anything they like? Yes.
Here is my opinion (seeing as though you asked so nicely) - It's easy to see why they changed it - millions of people who were told that "this generation will not die" are now dead. To me it seems a tiny bit coincidental the story they came up with changed the definition of a "generation" to one that didn't put a timeframe on the event.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by pelican, posted 04-27-2008 3:41 AM pelican has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by pelican, posted 04-27-2008 7:43 AM killinghurts has replied

  
killinghurts
Member (Idle past 5015 days)
Posts: 150
Joined: 04-23-2008


Message 26 of 40 (464660)
04-27-2008 7:39 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by pelican
04-27-2008 7:43 AM


Re: Is that so...........................................
quote:
I was referring to your opinion of "devious simpletons talking out their arses"
This is hardly endearing towards your wife now, is it?
I think you might go about changing yourself before trying to change your wife. Good luck, you'll need it.
That's the second miscommunication we have had in two posts. I wasn't talking about my wife, I was talking about the Watch Tower. Let's stop before it gets messy hey?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by pelican, posted 04-27-2008 7:43 AM pelican has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by pelican, posted 04-27-2008 10:51 PM killinghurts has not replied

  
killinghurts
Member (Idle past 5015 days)
Posts: 150
Joined: 04-23-2008


Message 27 of 40 (464662)
04-27-2008 7:45 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by john6zx
04-27-2008 3:56 PM


quote:
TO killinghurts.
You married your wife knowing that she was a jehovah's witness. You knew this going in, so why are you now trying to change her? Her beliefs and her way of life is what you accepted when you married her, respect that. If you married a woman that smoked before you met her and now that you are married you want her to stop smoking because you do not like smoking, it is not the womans problem it is yours. The woman that you married has not changed from the woman that you fell in love with. You married the whole package, trying to change her is trying to change her into a woman that is different than the one that you fell in love with. Your wifes beliefs are what make her the woman you love, so do not mess with it. Just enjoy your marriage and stop trying to find fault in your wife. I am sure that you would not feel very close to your wife if she started to feel the need for you to become someone other than the man that she married. Enjoy your marriage and put your energy in making your wife happy, a happy wife is a happy husband.
1) You cannot make a blanket statement like that. For instance, my grandfather was on his way to being a catholic priest until his wife (my grandmother) came along and helped him realise what a crock of shite the whole thing was.
2) I knew she was a Jehovah's witness, that's fine, I did *not* know Jehovah's witnesses were against blood transfusions, and they she would (one year after we married) sign a form (given to her by JW's) declining any form of blood transfusion. Are you saying that is my fault?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by john6zx, posted 04-27-2008 3:56 PM john6zx has not replied

  
killinghurts
Member (Idle past 5015 days)
Posts: 150
Joined: 04-23-2008


Message 28 of 40 (464663)
04-27-2008 7:47 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Percy
04-27-2008 5:27 PM


We do have kids. And it is sticky.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Percy, posted 04-27-2008 5:27 PM Percy has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by iano, posted 04-28-2008 6:56 PM killinghurts has not replied

  
killinghurts
Member (Idle past 5015 days)
Posts: 150
Joined: 04-23-2008


Message 33 of 40 (465028)
05-02-2008 1:45 AM


Hi guys, I don't think there's anything more that I can offer to this topic. I think I'll take the advice a few of you have said and love her for who she is and what she believes in.
Hey at least we will never be stuck for things to talk about

  
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