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Author | Topic: EXPELLED: No Intelligence Allowed - Science Under Attack | |||||||||||||||||||||||
subbie Member (Idle past 1277 days) Posts: 3509 Joined: |
I found this preview of an upcoming sequel of sorts to EXPELLED.
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Percy Member Posts: 22480 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
I demand equal time for pumpkin patch theory!
--Percy
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bluegenes Member (Idle past 2499 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined: |
My excuses for replying to my own post, but in post 115, I quoted the ADL saying this about a previous attempt to exploit the deaths of Jews under the Nazis by creationists in the modern culture wars:
quote: From this press release: Page not Found | ADL I was guessing that they would come up with a similar condemnation of the "Expelled" film, and sure enough, they have. Press release here: Page not Found | ADL
quote: Ben Stein, meanwhile, is busy digging himself into an even deeper hole:
quote: Read more here Without realising it, Stein is giving plenty of ammunition to the mainstream scientists who claim that I.D. is anti-science. When the more thoughtful sector of the U.S. public read things like this, it'll occur to them that it would hardly be surprising if science departments were expelling people if they're part of a "science kills" religious movement! I think that we'll see some I.D. people disassociating themselves from some aspects of the film.
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Taz Member (Idle past 3313 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
Did anyone see that Ben Stein's interview yesterday? I forgot which show. I was watching it while waiting in a hotel lounge.
Stein was ridiculing the very idea of aliens or any other god except for the christian god for being a possible candidate for the designer. His case was that the christian god should be considered to a possibility but when asked about other gods or aliens Stein just hand waved it off and said it was ridiculous to think that an intelligent designer could be aliens or whatnot. The thing that I don't understand is that the ID movement have been trying very hard to not associate themselves (publically at least) to christianity. Wouldn't Stein's obvious bias for the christian god on public television undermine all of this effort? BTW, I think this interview was on fox. Not sure. I'm trying to see things your way, but I can't put my head that far up my ass.
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bluegenes Member (Idle past 2499 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined: |
Taz writes: The thing that I don't understand is that the ID movement have been trying very hard to not associate themselves (publically at least) to christianity. Wouldn't Stein's obvious bias for the christian god on public television undermine all of this effort? Most seem to have given up that pretense, Taz, which was why I was laughing about Dembski using the word "God" as a three letter abbreviation for "intelligent designer" in his review of the film I linked to a few posts back (post 180). Are you sure that Stein said "Christian God"? Is he a convert?
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Taz Member (Idle past 3313 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
He didn't say "christian god" but he implied it. When asked about aliens, he scoffed at the idea. When asked about hindu gods and such, he scoffed at the idea. Then he said that he believed "god" to be the intelligent designer. Seems pretty obvious to me.
I'm trying to see things your way, but I can't put my head that far up my ass.
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bluegenes Member (Idle past 2499 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined: |
Taz writes: He didn't say "christian god" but he implied it. Odd implication if he's a believer in Judaism, which was what I was getting at.
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Taz Member (Idle past 3313 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
Uh, if you didn't know it's the same god.
I'm trying to see things your way, but I can't put my head that far up my ass.
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bluegenes Member (Idle past 2499 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined: |
Taz writes: Uh, if you didn't know it's the same god. Not really. Christ is God for Christians, but certainly not for Jews. A God who comes to earth as his own son and a God who doesn't cannot be one and the same. When there's a split in religion, like the split of Christianity from Judaism, a new God is automatically created. Same with the split of Islam from Christianity. Old earth Christians and YECs also believe in different Gods who created different universes in different ways. There are many "true" Gods of Abraham! Theists aren't people who all believe in the same God who actually exists. They believe in lots of different human inventions. But this is O.T. To relate it to the topic, it is because of these two different Gods and religions that two groups of people in central Europe were kept separate from each other for 1.5 millennia, and there were sometimes serious attacks and slaughters of followers of the minority religion, as during the crusades. If Ben Stein and the makers of "Expelled" really wanted to understand the holocaust, they would need to go into this history, and examine the role of religion. Pretending that science is a killer responsible for the symptoms of religious division will not alter the historical realities. After the war, religious people, both Christian and Jewish, tried to downplay the role of religion in the rise of the Nazis. But the Nazis were elected by an overwhelmingly Christian electorate, and a look at Hitler's speeches and writing shows the ancient religious prejudices that he was appealing to. The irony is that conservative Christians of the time were behind the Nazis and their pseudoscience, and it is conservative Christians who are the force behind the I.D. movement and their pseudoscience, as well as the film "Expelled", and its pathetic attempt to point the finger at real science as being the killer. This is one reason why the film is likely to backfire badly on the I.D. movement.
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Taz Member (Idle past 3313 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
Well, then fine he was implying the jewish god. Doesn't really matter. What matters is he was ridiculing possibility of aliens or the gods of other cultures but somehow expected us to believe that the true intelligent designer had to be his god.
I'm trying to see things your way, but I can't put my head that far up my ass.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
Taz writes: Did anyone see that Ben Stein's interview yesterday? I forgot which show. I was watching it while waiting in a hotel lounge.Stein was ridiculing the very idea of aliens or any other god except for the christian god for being a possible candidate for the designer. His case was that the christian god should be considered to a possibility but when asked about other gods or aliens Stein just hand waved it off and said it was ridiculous to think that an intelligent designer could be aliens or whatnot. I saw the interview. I believe it was Bill O'Reilly who did the interview. Imo, Stein waved off thinking ID could be other than the Biblical god because the Biblical record is the most concise, comprehensive, coherent and corroborated model for ID of any religion.
Taz writes: The thing that I don't understand is that the ID movement have been trying very hard to not associate themselves (publically at least) to christianity. Wouldn't Stein's obvious bias for the christian god on public television undermine all of this effort? Many of the arguments for ID can be made outside of Christianity. The reason many Biblicalists work to disassociate their arguments from religion is that we must do so in order to expect any fora for airing our views. There's another reason, imo, which is that the mainstream YEC position of a young universe and young earth is neither logical, scientific or Biblical relative to a literal reading of Genesis one. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
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Deftil Member (Idle past 4477 days) Posts: 128 From: Virginia, USA Joined: |
Perhaps Stein has been working undercover to destroy the ID movement from the inside.
Either that or he really is a freakin idiot.
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
Buzsaw writes:
quote: (*chuckle*) Yes, we know you believe this, but the Bible is actually pretty silent on the matter. It simply says things came into being. Absolutely no mention of any methodology appears. And what little phrases do pop up are in direct contradiction to observation: The Bible says flowering plants appeared before insects, but the inverse is true. The Bible says that if you mate rams in the shadows of rods, the offspring will be striped, but we know that this bizarre version of Lamarckism isn't true.
quote: You do realize that you just declared ID to be Christian theology and therefore has nothing to do with actual science, right?
quote: Since a literal reading of Genesis puts the origin of the universe at just under 6000 years ago, I fail to see how you can claim that this doesn't jibe with a "young universe and young earth." Rrhain Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.
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Taz Member (Idle past 3313 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
Buzsaw writes:
I know who bill is. It wasn't him. I believe it was Bill O'Reilly who did the interview. I'm trying to see things your way, but I can't put my head that far up my ass.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
Here's the interview on UTube 4 U 2 C.
BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
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